This thread makes an interesting read, this horrible event has changed our industry.

I am surprised how many times the word "suicide" has been used.

"Suicide" is to take ones own life, intentionally taking 150 lives to make a point is mass murder.

To put it another way:

a "Sad" person will take their own life, be it, hot bath, pills, bullet or car into a tree.

A "Mad" person is one that will premeditate and execute unthinkable acts.

This jack ass is no different to someone that straps on a bomb vest or kills hostages in a coffee shop.

There is no fool proof litmus test to identify these people, they are smart, charming and controlled.

I believe the big issue is the narcissistic personality traits,,,,, "I'll show them" or "I'll change this industry".

The realities of the aviation industry, we need Type A behavior on flight decks, people able to act and that will not be crippled by stress or conflict.

There are statistics stating that approximately 1% of the population are psychopathathic / sociopathic personalities, I believe this number is much much higher in workplaces that draws Type A behaviors.

Take the test ( be honest ) : Sociopath Test

I'm with you Josh Cox. Herr Lubitz is a mass-murderer, not 'suicidal'. If he just wanted to top himself he would have jumped off a bridge et al instead of taking 149 other people with him. There is more to this story than 'suicidal tendencies', the man was making a statement. What that statement is is yet to be discovered.

You assume he was actually mentally fit to be thinking straight at all. He wanted to top himself in such a way he would be remembered, doesn't mean he wanted to commit murder in the process. Would he be convicted in a court of law, I suspect he may have been found incompetent to stand trial, this was one sick individual. Just a shame that despite several instances of people having opportunities to intervene he was able to continue to operate.mthe sad thing is that instead of looking at how mental health in aviation is treated we are wasting our time ensuring we have a cabin crew member supervising to flight crew, true ambulance at the bottom of the cliff stuff.

Josh,

I agree this is a great thread - unlike the main one on R&N.

I also agree that this person did not suffer from depression. Any connection with mental illness issues with pilots does not or should not include concerns about depression. Depression can be treated and in the case of pilots should be able to be treated without stigma or threat of loss of licence. It is stigma and threat of loss of licence that will prevent pilots from seeking the treatment that will help them.

Depression does not make one a mass murderer.

It is probably more interesting to look at the mental state of those who have committed mass murder/suicides in the past, such as the kids who shot up schools in the USA, or the muslim extremist suicide bombers. The pilot who has just been through a divorce and lost his house and kids is not your target.

Deep seated long term anger or agression is probably the area to be looking at.

However, I disagree with your vague conclusion that pilots are more likely to be sociopaths or psychopaths due to the personality types that are attracted to aviation. Commercial aviation is a "keeping people alive" game. Whilst some assertiveness is essential, it also involves a lot of humility and submission (to rules, SOPs, learning from mistakes and one's superiors), and is essentially quite boring compared to the gigs that usually attracts sociopaths or psychopaths.

This guy hadn't been in the game very long. That may be a factor.

Or maybe Narcissism:

Plane Crash in the Alps, Andreas Lubitz ? Narcissism, Not Depression | 360 Degrees of Mindful Living

I'm surprised this hasn't come up more. I know it's different in Europe and they probably really don't want to go into this area as it is too uncomfortable and difficult as the ramifications would be considerable. In the USA that guy would simply not be on the flight deck with their 1,500hr rule. I was still flying aircraft with 2-6 seats with Lubitz's hours. I would hazard a guess that a great many of fellow Aussie pilots would be the same.

A disconnect from reality and a complete failure to identify and understand the gravity of consequences seems to be apparent with school shootings and other cold blooded mass murder type events. When the reality of things isn't quite the same as a video game it is no wonder individuals end up pointing the gun at themselves in the end.

One does have to wonder if the road into an airline cockpit had been longer and via a more 'traditional' route whether this would have occurred? There certainly would have been more time for problems to surface and be identified before a person reaches a position of great responsibility.

Cpt Nomad, I said as much earlier
and got shot down.

I agree whole-heartedly with your post.

Nice theory guys but if you look at the other murder-suicides that have occurred over the years, the theory doesn't really match the evidence

Silk Air was a hugely experienced ex military captain, Egypt Air the guy was a 12,000 hour FO, Mozambique a 9,000 hour captain.

Snakecharma -- I think it's rather obvious if someone is down the back as you say or up the front. Generally crew in transit are not entering and exiting only from the cockpit unless they are on duty. There were plenty of spare seats in the cabin.

If they are on duty they aren't meant to be nibbeling from the galley in full view of PAX.

Now I may well be a dumb old retired LAME, with not much idea of what a pilot on duty should be doing up the front, but I reckon no matter how you blow smoke and mirrors up my arse this was just obviously wrong, and the airline condoned it.

If the airline didnt seek to find out who this crew member was and draw attention to the complaint -- as it didn't -- then it's promoting a poor culture of anything goes, and that's the kind of thing that leads to a 130 hour baby crashing an airliner as we have seen.

Now in a coronial inquiry should god forbid this have happened in Australia my letter of complaint would have been evidence.

Think about that before you discount so easily in the future dismiss such a serious complaint or you too could be sitting responsible for a disaster one day if you ever reach management level.

Arkmark. Did you raise your concern with the pilot during the flight. Or just covertly film him to grass him out later on? If you had a true concern I am sure an ex LAME would have spoken up.

Arkmark, mind your own business.

Arkmark with respect I think you are missing the point.

I might have a seat down the back but equally I might have a seat in the flight deck. If I am paxing on the jump seat I will spend some time out of the flight deck as boeing have managed to build the worlds most uncomfortable jump seats (well I would have up to last week).

To the casual observer it might look like one of the operating crew has come out and is skiving off chatting up a flight attendant.

As I was trying to say, things may not be as they appear.

Maybe they can block a toilet off for crew use only, and add a Joystick and EFIS display in there if required. Can't imagine that would be too hard to do.

Captain Nomad, Hempy,
You better steer clear of most European and SE Asian airlines, and increasingly ME carriers, as 250 h F/Os is the norm, and has been now for more than 40 years.
Tootle pip!!

Usually the biggest narcissists in any airline are the executive management. They control the lives of 1000's and will probably never have to do any psych testing.

You really think they give a rats arse about 150 people?? No.

Damage to the brand and bonuses are all they think about. They surround themselves with talkers, greasy pole climbers and individuals that only care about themselves.

Then you get to Flt Ops and it is worse!!

Some of the things I have personally witnessed in an airline would send a chill down your spine.

They dont want to hear it. They go to great lengths to make the problem go away by sweeping it under the table.

As bad as this tragedy was, I hope something good comes out of it. Not just some window dressing, fluffy emails about EAP's and all holding hands and singing kumbaya in NTS. I very much doubt it.

Emails have been sent - with extra fluff, and lyrics to the song!