Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Would it happen here?

Old 27th Mar 2015, 03:15
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Would it happen here?

I know it is early days, and that reporting out of Europe is suggesting pilot suicide as a possible cause of the Germanwings crash (hyperbole or just wrong reporting).
How does the travelling public in Australia know that it won't happen here?
Do our carriers always have two up front in high capacity RPT?
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Old 27th Mar 2015, 03:17
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Aww gees.



56789
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Old 27th Mar 2015, 03:36
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Air NZ changes cockpit policy following Germanwings crash

(Fairfax NZ | 2:54PM - Friday, 27 March 2015)
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Old 27th Mar 2015, 03:58
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11 events in 40 years..

ASN News List of aircraft accidents and incidents intentionally caused by pilots
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Old 27th Mar 2015, 04:14
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By changing the procedures, the company is admitting it doesn't trust its pilots!

A better procedure would be when a toilet break is required, both of you leave the cockpit together! That way, no one can fiddle with the buttons!
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Old 27th Mar 2015, 04:29
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Air India pilot 'left hostesses in cockpit while he slept in business class' - Telegraph

So by this reasoning, it's safer to have no one up there then to leave the cabin crew in charge...
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Old 27th Mar 2015, 04:58
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When will we be demanding all our land public transport vehicles are dual control, dual driver... just in case one of those drivers decides to do the old untethered vehicular bungy off a mountain or bridge.

Sometimes, bad things happen. That's life. Everybody has to put their trust in somebody, eventually.
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Old 27th Mar 2015, 05:12
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Let's rule out a few other medical conditions before we all jump on the suicide bandwagon.

The French Military (ie French Government) seem keen to push the idea that it was a suicide mission without even doing a autopsy or any other sort of investigation.

From what the newspapers say he seems a normal pilot started gliding at 15 learnt to fly overseas, and was pretty fit and normal kinda guy.

Bizarre that he wants to suicide in an instant with no real other motive or indication

11 events in 40 years..
Then divide 11 by the number of RPT flights that have occurred over the last 40 years and it becomes a very small number............................
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Old 27th Mar 2015, 05:14
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That list doesn't include GA or helicopter deliberate crashes. I remember one in Alice Springs some years ago, flew into the hangar I believe.
A helicopter pilot I knew well was having woman trouble, so he went to the airfield early, started up a Bell 412, climbed up to about 1000 ft & dived vertically into the ground.
Sadly these mentally disturbed people do kill themselves but too many are happy to kill others with them.

This pilot was stood down for several months for depression whilst training a few years ago. He was declared fit to return to flying.
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Old 27th Mar 2015, 05:16
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If we include GA that number gets even smaller
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Old 27th Mar 2015, 05:31
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without even doing a autopsy
On what are they supposed to do an autopsy?
 
Old 27th Mar 2015, 05:39
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If you are going to crash an aircraft, you're going to do it.
.
.
.
This is just a Public relations exercise, pure and simple. It solves nothing.
Thank you. Exactly.

When you think about it (and hopefully most of us haven't, up to now), if an airline pilot wants to crash the aircraft, they will find a way. Doesn't matter if Tiffany the F/A or Kev the ASO is in the jump seat. Doesn't matter if it's a Boeing or an Airbus. Doesn't even matter if the other pilot is in their seat, it would simply be a matter of picking the right time in the right phase of flight.

So whatever action they take, it won't achieve anything beyond convincing some people that Something Is Being Done. And adding even more pointless frustrations and irritations to the business of operating aircraft.
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Old 27th Mar 2015, 05:49
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Originally Posted by SandyPalms View Post
Can anyone explain to me what difference having a Flight Attendant enter the flight deck during a pee break would make?
So what I'm hearing is, you believe 4U9525 would have crashed into the mountainside even if the captain had not left his seat the entire flight?
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Old 27th Mar 2015, 05:51
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Originally Posted by itsnotthatbloodyhard View Post
So whatever action they take, it won't achieve anything beyond convincing some people that Something Is Being Done. And adding even more pointless frustrations and irritations to the business of operating aircraft.
Agreed, there are few things more frustrating than hearing your children were murdered by a mentally ill rogue pilot while they were flying home from a school trip, except perhaps being on board the aircraft when it is flown into the side of the Alps

Are we really to accept it is simply a case of "shit happens"?
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Old 27th Mar 2015, 05:52
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Common sense says that it is a bad idea to have a single person locked behind a door that can only be opened from the inside. It costs nothing to have a cabin crew member go into the flight deck when one of the flight crew needs to leave and it provides a level of protection should the remaining pilot suffer from some sought of collapse. I find it hard to believe that it is not already common policy by all thinking airlines. It has nothing to do with trusting pilots and would not stop a determined deranged pilot from pointing a plane at the ground but it might just make the deluded person think twice when they are not alone.
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Old 27th Mar 2015, 06:06
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It costs nothing to have a cabin crew member go into the flight deck when one of the flight crew needs to leave and it provides a level of protection should the remaining pilot suffer from some sought of collapse.
Now possibly allowing a deranged flight attendant in on the cockpit when it is most vulnerable.

Where does it end.
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Old 27th Mar 2015, 06:09
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Pilotless airliners of course
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Old 27th Mar 2015, 06:12
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Just so sad!
I think it could happen anywhere.

Really opens a can of worms regarding flight crews
These events seemed scarcer when we had flight engineers in the cockpit. Perhaps another presence does make a difference?
Whatever the answer , I would like the aircrew community ( pilots, cabin crew), to work on a outcome before it gets taken out of our hands by the lawyers and auto flight manufacturers .
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Old 27th Mar 2015, 06:16
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Unhappy Most trusted profession

I wonder how far down the list we'll drop........?
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Old 27th Mar 2015, 06:20
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Agreed, there are few things more frustrating than hearing your children were murdered by a mentally ill rogue pilot while they were flying home from a school trip, except perhaps being on board the aircraft when it is flown into the side of the Alps

Are we really to accept it is simply a case of "shit happens"?
Either you have a meaningful, practical, effective solution, or yes, you accept that "shit happens" (and that while appalling, the incidence of this sort of thing is statistically miniscule). Kneejerk bullshit that just gives the appearance of doing something simply doesn't cut it. As I said, if a pilot really wants the aircraft to crash, then that is what will happen. Any response to this should IMHO be looking at pilots' psychological health, so that these nutters don't find their way onto a flight deck. And that'll open a whole can of worms itself.
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