Bleeding heart delays flight deporting illegal immigrant
 

More information will come to light for sure but as written, its disturbing that a person can be placed on the no fly list for simply asking to leave the aircraft.

Do you honestly think he had no prior knowledge of the situation?

You're kidding aren't you?:confused:

Some prong decides to enforce his "political beliefs" on an aircraft load of passengers, and the passengers of subsequent flights by that aircraft, by demanding to get off a flight at scheduled push back time. This doubtless causes significant delays as the checked in bags for the aforementioned prong have to be located.

If that selfish act weren't enough, he has also committed an offence by refusing to follow the lawful directions of a crew member.

The way this needs to be handled is a PA made whenever this protest happens in future reminding these recalcitrants that if they choose to participate in this protest, thereby delaying the aircraft, there will be consequences.

"Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain. You may have noticed our departure time has passed and we are still sitting at the gate. The reason for this is that some of your fellow passengers have decided to conduct a political demonstration by refusing to follow crew instructions to sit down and fasten their seatbelts. Whilst I acknowledge a persons right to peaceful protest, I feel I must remind all of you that by refusing to follow a crew member's instruction you are actually commiting an offence under federal law. As a result of this you will be removed from the aircraft and your fellow passengers will be delayed while we search for and offload your checked bags. Your offence will then be investigated by the Australian Federal Police. While that investigation takes place, you will be placed on a No Fly List. Meaning you will be deemed to be an unacceptable risk to travel by air on any Qantas, Jetstar, Emirates or any affiliated airline. And if you think I'll just go fly with Virgin, please be advised that Qantas and Virgin share information on no fly lists with each other. Therefore chances are you wont be allowed to fly on any airliner in this country for a very long time. I ask you now to make a decision. Be seated so we may get under way. Or remain standing and be removed from this flight. The choice is yours. Thank you for your attention. "

This is a pretty stupid decision from QF.

Firstly from a PR point of view. Just look at the top comments on the social media articles and everyone is suggesting a boycott of QF and Jetstar rather than agreeing with their stance.

Secondly it's discriminating against this guy. Did he know beforehand about the protest? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe he's a really nervous flyer and a bit of commotion on the flight beforehand didn't sit well with him.

Everyone has a right to get off an aircraft before it leaves the ground if they feel uncomfortable. No matter the reason.

I"m not sure if you have info from other sources. If not, you obviously didn't read the article properly.

No where does it say that the businessman demanded to get off the aircraft AT pushback time.

No where in the article does it say that he refused to sit down when directed.

Maybe you should end your PA with "now I"ll just reread my manuals because I obviously didn't read them corrrectly the first time"

Carrying deportees and people who have been refused entry is an everyday occurrence for airlines. Normally if you are refused immigration clearance you are sent back on the next flight unless you say the magic word "asylum".

Are the airlines supposed to ask if anyone objects to immigration department decisions prior to departure?

These bleeding heart left wingers have already caused enough trouble, they would probably have objected to the gunman in the Sydney cafe siege being deported as well.

Much more to this story I feel. Screams 'set up' to me!

"Do you honestly think he had no prior knowledge of the situation?"

He claims he did not. Fairfax claims he did. Even with prior knowledge, it should not be assumed that he was therefore going to purposefully delay the flight.

"Some prong decides to enforce his political beliefs".

Where in the article does it suggest his political beliefs were at play?

"he has also committed an offence by refusing to follow the lawful directions of a crew member."

Where in the article does it suggest that he refused to follow instructions?

"These bleeding heart left wingers have already caused enough trouble"

Really, can you give examples?

"they would probably have objected to the gunman in the Sydney cafe siege being deported as well."

I think such a throw away comment simply undermines your entire argument and makes you look closed minded.

What I love most about Mr Leary, is that after being so offended on his first flight with QF, he did not cancel his return ticket and come back with an alternate carrier, but he continued to attempt to use QF services.

If he was genuinely wanting to "Boycott" the carrier, he should have cancelled his return ticket, demanded a refund and cancelled his own QF FF membership immediately. Or is it just a matter of being offended (and/or boycotting) when convenient?

"If he was genuinely wanting to "Boycott" the carrier"

My parents would love to boycott QF for many reasons but are doomed to fly QF because of the huge number of points they have. Maybe this guy is in a similar position.

But more importantly, where in the article did it state that he trying to boycott QF?

You guys really want a police state huh?

I do, and I did read the article. The article is from the complainant's point of view, and not a factual account of the incident.

It doesn't, but all of those who refused to sit down and fasten seat belts as directed at the time were offloaded and placed on the no fly list. This happened actually a few minutes after push back time. If the Mr Leary found himself on the list, then he was taking part in the "Stand Up" protest.

Clearly you're a little naive, and believe everything you read.

Maybe you should pull your head out of your ar$e.

Nice work!

Almost as intelligent as your first response.

Is Don,

You really are judge, jury and executioner.

"......and believe everything you read."

No, actually, egg refuses to argue a point NOT written in the article.

And Don, you would believe things that you read as long as they are written in the correct publication.

If QF placed some folks on the no fly list as a result of a standup protest by a bunch of well meaning hippies then the Australians have become more paranoid than I thought.

I have absolutely no idea what you're on about.

And your calling Australia a police state? Looked around where you live lately. If you want to see the worlds centre for paranoid, pig ignorant individuals, look no further than the good 'ol US of A.

Someone bought up the Lindt Cafe siege.

What if Man Haron Monis had, prior to his demise, decided to conduct a political protest on an aircraft at push back? Would you expect him to be on a no fly list? Or would you think that was just a gross invasion of his right to free speech?

Like it or not, the vast majority of this country support a hard line on illegal immigration. Why is it that the rights of the majority to get from A to B unhindered get trumped by the minority view? If we let these protests go unchallenged then every flight would have a protest of some sort wanting to delay it.

No fly lists exist to protect the travelling public from the Man Haron Monis's of this world. Mr Leary has now found out that exercising his rights to protest have consequences. With rights come obligations and consequences. He is now regarded as being a threat to the security of passengers that would fly with him. Ultimately he may be allowed back into the sky, maybe not, depending on the ensuing investigation. Either way, I suggest he'll think twice before pulling this little stunt again.

Now as to the facts as I am aware of them.

This was an organised protest. Leaflets were being handed out at the boarding gate by those planning to protest on board. Just as the aircraft was about to push at least one of the organisers stood up and started yelling out that they were conducting a political protest aimed at stopping the detainee from being deported, and soliciting support from fellow passengers. Some of those passengers stood up. Each of these protestors was given fair opportunity to resume their seats and avoid being off loaded. Some sat down, some didn't. Those that didn't were off loaded and, quite correctly, put on the no fly list. Qantas has a duty of care to protect the safety of passengers that choose to travel with them. The no fly list exists for this purpose. Those involved in the protest have been deemed to warrant further investigation before being allowed to fly again, as it should be.

Make no mistake. Mr Leary was involved in the protest. Fact.

Correct me if I'm wrong but this aircraft would have been subject to a ground delay program & possible slot constraints? If this is the case, whomever stood up and interfered with these programs deserves to be on a no fly list. They are not only interfering with the passengers on this aircraft but a whole airport's & airways system's passengers.

It amazes me that these idiots know NOTHING or NONE of the details of the security assessments done on these illegal immigrants but are willing to allow them to reside in our country?? Morons the lot of them.

Thanks Don for the clarification. I await the witty replies from the gallery.....:rolleyes:

Dumb and dumber
 

Occur & ecg, you are both looking more and more stupid with each of your posts. Quit now before you look like complete idiots.:=

While Melbourne does have a ground delay program, it is only for departures for SYD, BNE and PER. As this flight was going to DRW it would not have been. I suggest though that the Chardonnay Sipping Socialists involved in this wouldn't have known about that either way. All logic goes out the window.

Don, most of your previous argument is ramble about a dead criminal who had NOTHING to do with the events reported above and most of your contribution is therefore not worth responding to.

But . . . . .

"No fly lists exist to protect the travelling public from the Man Haron Monis's of this world"

Are you suggesting the person in this article posed a similar threat as a confirmed murderer simply because he politely requested to vacate the aircraft, something he has the right to do unless Australian law now permits airlines to take hostages?

"He is now regarded as being a threat to the security of passengers that would fly with him."

No, at no stage was he considered a threat to security and nothing in this article or any news media report about the event implies any sort of threat existed.

These people delayed a flight and should be dealt with accordingly. Perhaps QF will leave the ban in place and these people will be required to fly Virgin instead.

But next time, lets not draw parallels between someone wishing to leave an aircraft after ETD with someone who committed murder.

Jenna, you really make valued contributions to the world and for that I thank you.

oicur12.again:

Firstly, I made no reference to the no fly list etc - so not sure how my post can be tied in to the nanny state argument.

Whilst I agree the word "boycott" was not used in the article, one could reasonably assume that by removing ones self from an aircraft which you had originally elected (and paid) to travel on by your own choosing would constitute a refusal (boycott) to travel with this carrier.

Ignoring that, my point was simply pointing out that this gentlemen and his peers were so outraged that QF was assisting with the deportation transfer, that they removed themselves from the flight, refusing to travel on this carrier. But magically, when there was no scene to make, they were more than happy to return with the same company. You either object to the companies practices or you don't.

Plus surely QF points could just be cashed out into vouchers if the thought of flying QF is so offensive.

"If QF placed some folks on the no fly list as a result of a standup protest by a bunch of well meaning hippies then the Australians have become more paranoid than I thought."


Nah, we are not paranoid. Some of us are just becoming tired of well meaning hippies who selfishly disrupt our travel schedule to make political points that the majority disagree with. To take this article as reported:

• Leary and his travel companion arrive at the airport and then are 'given information'
• But they board anyway
• A third person (apparently) arcs up with an on-board protest
• So, she at least had planned it
• Leary and companion join the protest (on the spur of the moment?) by asking to disembark
• The airline cops a delay, passengers inconvenienced, possible 'knock on' effect with connecting flight
• Deportee still gets deported

If some idiot pulled the emergency stop on a crowded commuter train for no good reason, would there not be consequences? At the very least a heavy fine.

There have to be consequences for anyone who decides on a whim not to travel at the last minute.

Oicur12.

You continue to quote the article.

The article was written in response to an interview given by the protestor.

You fail to see that maybe, just maybe, the article is a little biased in Mr Leary's favour. I'm offering you the facts of the incident but instead you hold fast to the "facts" of an article from a position of bias.

Maybe you believe the Earth is flat too.

There are none so blind as those that will not see.

Unfortunately Australia has become a nation of terror fearing rednecks. Just look at what happens to Abbott in the polls when he plays the terrorism card.

Sri Lankan asylum seekers returned by Australia are generally charged with leaving the country illegally and those found guilty face “rigorous imprisonment”. The sentence for those proved to have left illegally is two years of rigorous imprisonment and a fine.

I don't think there's anything wrong with not wanting to be involved with that.

And that is your right to your opinion. If enough people think like you and want an open door policy then vote Green. Who knows, one day you might get enough political clout to form government and change the law. Until that time we live in a democracy that values our right to have a say in who moves here from overseas and under what circumstances.

Don - you say "the article is a little biased.

Yep, and so is the source of your info mate. It all is.

Were you there? No, then stop pretending you have the "facts". You just choose to believe whatever you are told to fit your view of the story. The opposite side of the argument is trying to form an opinion based on what information is available.

The guy you are arguing with started off by saying "as written".

Forgot to mention this too Don . . .

"Until that time we live in a democracy that values our right to have a say in who moves here from overseas and under what circumstances."

Actually mate just because you think you elected the leaders in Canberra does not mean you then get to tell them who who moves here from overseas . . .

its not a committee.

And why shouldn't they be charged? Do you reckon Australians leaving Australia illegally wouldn't be charged for doing the same? Or any other country whether developed or not?

It's not much wonder Australians are increasingly ill thought of around the world, other nations have had a gutful of being dictated to from a tinpot democracy that can't even balance a budget.

Metroman said

How do you know he doesn't vote LNP? Or PUP? Or...
Bloody lefties, causing trouble, everyone should vote as I do because I'm right!

Really. You know that for sure. I'm not saying what my part in the episode was. Suffice to say I was a lot closer to it than you mate.

I don't tell the politicians what to do, public opinion does. At this point in time the vast majority of public opinion believes in a hard line on immigration. Our laws reflect that. Mate!

IsDon,
You seem to have a magnetic personality - you've drawn them out of the woodwork.
Moths to a flame, as it were.

I think it's pretty apparent to anybody not pushing an agenda, what really went on.

I got a particular chuckle from one American's outburst...
"(Australia) - a tinpot democracy that can't even balance a budget." :rolleyes:

I am in no doubt he knew EXACTLY what was planned before he got to the airport and he may have even been implicit in the planning of what took place.

He at least should grow a pair and admit he was indeed part of the protest.

Sounds like a small accident with back of a chinless wonder's scone and a fire bottle would have been logical.

These clowns are the illegal immigrant "protectors" who believe they can do anything they like and impact any other person they like despite due legal process according to the LAWS of the land whether they like it or not have been followed. Sort of reffo-nazis, just like another well known group are enviro nazis.

Aerobridges are distressing. You don't get the nice thud at the bottom of the steps.

I hope the "don't fly" is passed to all other carriers. Disregard of the command and authority of Captain of the aeroplane is not excusable and if such becomes public knowledge as being acceptable and a viable form of protest, who knows what level of wallies such action will attract. Worse still what elevated level of action it will engender.

Idiots:mad::mad:

EWL

Bravo EW

:D

Love that one. Perhaps the septic concerned could tell us when the USA last had a balanced budget or a surplus themselves.:hmm: 'Twas a while ago I believe.
I seem to vaguely remember you once posting of an incident that you witnessed along those lines many years ago EWL.

Care to refresh our memories?:D

Hey Porter, what do you blokes do with all those little Mex's that come over the border in droves?? You round 'em up and take 'em back where they came from and that's that, no human rights no court no do gooders no nothing, just get them back over the border ASAP. Fall over and get up yourself goose!!

Hi Pinky

The incident involved someone becoming unruly on board as I was signing out the F28.

With backup from the Fireys and the assistance of gravity I experienced the calming effects of said "thud".

Any threat to crew, passengers and the aeroplane is no joke. If you don't know what is happening, regain control and quickly remove the problem.

The problem went away.

All the best

EWL

Seems to me that they took over the aircraft for their own purpose, and really, no matter whether their agenda was, can't think of any justification for that.

All airlines should "no fly" them....dic*heads!!!