Bleeding heart delays flight deporting illegal immigrant
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Bleeding heart delays flight deporting illegal immigrant
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More information will come to light for sure but as written, its disturbing that a person can be placed on the no fly list for simply asking to leave the aircraft.
Some prong decides to enforce his "political beliefs" on an aircraft load of passengers, and the passengers of subsequent flights by that aircraft, by demanding to get off a flight at scheduled push back time. This doubtless causes significant delays as the checked in bags for the aforementioned prong have to be located.
If that selfish act weren't enough, he has also committed an offence by refusing to follow the lawful directions of a crew member.
The way this needs to be handled is a PA made whenever this protest happens in future reminding these recalcitrants that if they choose to participate in this protest, thereby delaying the aircraft, there will be consequences.
"Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain. You may have noticed our departure time has passed and we are still sitting at the gate. The reason for this is that some of your fellow passengers have decided to conduct a political demonstration by refusing to follow crew instructions to sit down and fasten their seatbelts. Whilst I acknowledge a persons right to peaceful protest, I feel I must remind all of you that by refusing to follow a crew member's instruction you are actually commiting an offence under federal law. As a result of this you will be removed from the aircraft and your fellow passengers will be delayed while we search for and offload your checked bags. Your offence will then be investigated by the Australian Federal Police. While that investigation takes place, you will be placed on a No Fly List. Meaning you will be deemed to be an unacceptable risk to travel by air on any Qantas, Jetstar, Emirates or any affiliated airline. And if you think I'll just go fly with Virgin, please be advised that Qantas and Virgin share information on no fly lists with each other. Therefore chances are you wont be allowed to fly on any airliner in this country for a very long time. I ask you now to make a decision. Be seated so we may get under way. Or remain standing and be removed from this flight. The choice is yours. Thank you for your attention. "
This is a pretty stupid decision from QF.
Firstly from a PR point of view. Just look at the top comments on the social media articles and everyone is suggesting a boycott of QF and Jetstar rather than agreeing with their stance.
Secondly it's discriminating against this guy. Did he know beforehand about the protest? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe he's a really nervous flyer and a bit of commotion on the flight beforehand didn't sit well with him.
Everyone has a right to get off an aircraft before it leaves the ground if they feel uncomfortable. No matter the reason.
Firstly from a PR point of view. Just look at the top comments on the social media articles and everyone is suggesting a boycott of QF and Jetstar rather than agreeing with their stance.
Secondly it's discriminating against this guy. Did he know beforehand about the protest? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe he's a really nervous flyer and a bit of commotion on the flight beforehand didn't sit well with him.
Everyone has a right to get off an aircraft before it leaves the ground if they feel uncomfortable. No matter the reason.
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You're kidding aren't you?
Some prong decides to enforce his "political beliefs" on an aircraft load of passengers, and the passengers of subsequent flights by that aircraft, by demanding to get off a flight at scheduled push back time. This doubtless causes significant delays as the checked in bags for the aforementioned prong have to be located.
If that selfish act weren't enough, he has also committed an offence by refusing to follow the lawful directions of a crew member.
Some prong decides to enforce his "political beliefs" on an aircraft load of passengers, and the passengers of subsequent flights by that aircraft, by demanding to get off a flight at scheduled push back time. This doubtless causes significant delays as the checked in bags for the aforementioned prong have to be located.
If that selfish act weren't enough, he has also committed an offence by refusing to follow the lawful directions of a crew member.
No where does it say that the businessman demanded to get off the aircraft AT pushback time.
No where in the article does it say that he refused to sit down when directed.
Maybe you should end your PA with "now I"ll just reread my manuals because I obviously didn't read them corrrectly the first time"
Carrying deportees and people who have been refused entry is an everyday occurrence for airlines. Normally if you are refused immigration clearance you are sent back on the next flight unless you say the magic word "asylum".
Are the airlines supposed to ask if anyone objects to immigration department decisions prior to departure?
These bleeding heart left wingers have already caused enough trouble, they would probably have objected to the gunman in the Sydney cafe siege being deported as well.
Are the airlines supposed to ask if anyone objects to immigration department decisions prior to departure?
These bleeding heart left wingers have already caused enough trouble, they would probably have objected to the gunman in the Sydney cafe siege being deported as well.
Nunc est bibendum
Mr Leary, who has worked as a human relations executive for 25 years and now works for a social justice organisation, said he and his colleague did not have any links to asylum seeker advocacy groups and did not know there would be an asylum seeker on the flight.
"Do you honestly think he had no prior knowledge of the situation?"
He claims he did not. Fairfax claims he did. Even with prior knowledge, it should not be assumed that he was therefore going to purposefully delay the flight.
"Some prong decides to enforce his political beliefs".
Where in the article does it suggest his political beliefs were at play?
"he has also committed an offence by refusing to follow the lawful directions of a crew member."
Where in the article does it suggest that he refused to follow instructions?
"These bleeding heart left wingers have already caused enough trouble"
Really, can you give examples?
"they would probably have objected to the gunman in the Sydney cafe siege being deported as well."
I think such a throw away comment simply undermines your entire argument and makes you look closed minded.
He claims he did not. Fairfax claims he did. Even with prior knowledge, it should not be assumed that he was therefore going to purposefully delay the flight.
"Some prong decides to enforce his political beliefs".
Where in the article does it suggest his political beliefs were at play?
"he has also committed an offence by refusing to follow the lawful directions of a crew member."
Where in the article does it suggest that he refused to follow instructions?
"These bleeding heart left wingers have already caused enough trouble"
Really, can you give examples?
"they would probably have objected to the gunman in the Sydney cafe siege being deported as well."
I think such a throw away comment simply undermines your entire argument and makes you look closed minded.
What I love most about Mr Leary, is that after being so offended on his first flight with QF, he did not cancel his return ticket and come back with an alternate carrier, but he continued to attempt to use QF services.
If he was genuinely wanting to "Boycott" the carrier, he should have cancelled his return ticket, demanded a refund and cancelled his own QF FF membership immediately. Or is it just a matter of being offended (and/or boycotting) when convenient?
If he was genuinely wanting to "Boycott" the carrier, he should have cancelled his return ticket, demanded a refund and cancelled his own QF FF membership immediately. Or is it just a matter of being offended (and/or boycotting) when convenient?
"If he was genuinely wanting to "Boycott" the carrier"
My parents would love to boycott QF for many reasons but are doomed to fly QF because of the huge number of points they have. Maybe this guy is in a similar position.
But more importantly, where in the article did it state that he trying to boycott QF?
You guys really want a police state huh?
My parents would love to boycott QF for many reasons but are doomed to fly QF because of the huge number of points they have. Maybe this guy is in a similar position.
But more importantly, where in the article did it state that he trying to boycott QF?
You guys really want a police state huh?
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I"m not sure if you have info from other sources. If not, you obviously didn't read the article properly.
No where does it say that the businessman demanded to get off the aircraft AT pushback time.
No where in the article does it say that he refused to sit down when directed.
Maybe you should end your PA with "now I"ll just reread my manuals because I obviously didn't read them corrrectly the first time"
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Quote:
I"m not sure if you have info from other sources. If not, you obviously didn't read the article properly.
I do, and I did read the article. The article is from the complainant's point of view, and not a factual account of the incident.
Quote:
No where does it say that the businessman demanded to get off the aircraft AT pushback time.
It doesn't, but all of those who refused to sit down and fasten seat belts as directed at the time were offloaded and placed on the no fly list. This happened actually a few minutes after push back time. If the Mr Leary found himself on the list, then he was taking part in the "Stand Up" protest.
Quote:
No where in the article does it say that he refused to sit down when directed.
Clearly you're a little naive, and believe everything you read.
Quote:
Maybe you should end your PA with "now I"ll just reread my manuals because I obviously didn't read them corrrectly the first time"
Maybe you should pull your head out of your ar$e.
I"m not sure if you have info from other sources. If not, you obviously didn't read the article properly.
I do, and I did read the article. The article is from the complainant's point of view, and not a factual account of the incident.
Quote:
No where does it say that the businessman demanded to get off the aircraft AT pushback time.
It doesn't, but all of those who refused to sit down and fasten seat belts as directed at the time were offloaded and placed on the no fly list. This happened actually a few minutes after push back time. If the Mr Leary found himself on the list, then he was taking part in the "Stand Up" protest.
Quote:
No where in the article does it say that he refused to sit down when directed.
Clearly you're a little naive, and believe everything you read.
Quote:
Maybe you should end your PA with "now I"ll just reread my manuals because I obviously didn't read them corrrectly the first time"
Maybe you should pull your head out of your ar$e.
Nice work!
Almost as intelligent as your first response.
Is Don,
You really are judge, jury and executioner.
"......and believe everything you read."
No, actually, egg refuses to argue a point NOT written in the article.
And Don, you would believe things that you read as long as they are written in the correct publication.
If QF placed some folks on the no fly list as a result of a standup protest by a bunch of well meaning hippies then the Australians have become more paranoid than I thought.
You really are judge, jury and executioner.
"......and believe everything you read."
No, actually, egg refuses to argue a point NOT written in the article.
And Don, you would believe things that you read as long as they are written in the correct publication.
If QF placed some folks on the no fly list as a result of a standup protest by a bunch of well meaning hippies then the Australians have become more paranoid than I thought.
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Is Don,
You really are judge, jury and executioner.
"......and believe everything you read."
No, actually, egg refuses to argue a point NOT written in the article.
And Don, you would believe things that you read as long as they are written in the correct publication.
If QF placed some folks on the no fly list as a result of a standup protest by a bunch of well meaning hippies then the Australians have become more paranoid than I thought.
You really are judge, jury and executioner.
"......and believe everything you read."
No, actually, egg refuses to argue a point NOT written in the article.
And Don, you would believe things that you read as long as they are written in the correct publication.
If QF placed some folks on the no fly list as a result of a standup protest by a bunch of well meaning hippies then the Australians have become more paranoid than I thought.
And your calling Australia a police state? Looked around where you live lately. If you want to see the worlds centre for paranoid, pig ignorant individuals, look no further than the good 'ol US of A.
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Someone bought up the Lindt Cafe siege.
What if Man Haron Monis had, prior to his demise, decided to conduct a political protest on an aircraft at push back? Would you expect him to be on a no fly list? Or would you think that was just a gross invasion of his right to free speech?
Like it or not, the vast majority of this country support a hard line on illegal immigration. Why is it that the rights of the majority to get from A to B unhindered get trumped by the minority view? If we let these protests go unchallenged then every flight would have a protest of some sort wanting to delay it.
No fly lists exist to protect the travelling public from the Man Haron Monis's of this world. Mr Leary has now found out that exercising his rights to protest have consequences. With rights come obligations and consequences. He is now regarded as being a threat to the security of passengers that would fly with him. Ultimately he may be allowed back into the sky, maybe not, depending on the ensuing investigation. Either way, I suggest he'll think twice before pulling this little stunt again.
Now as to the facts as I am aware of them.
This was an organised protest. Leaflets were being handed out at the boarding gate by those planning to protest on board. Just as the aircraft was about to push at least one of the organisers stood up and started yelling out that they were conducting a political protest aimed at stopping the detainee from being deported, and soliciting support from fellow passengers. Some of those passengers stood up. Each of these protestors was given fair opportunity to resume their seats and avoid being off loaded. Some sat down, some didn't. Those that didn't were off loaded and, quite correctly, put on the no fly list. Qantas has a duty of care to protect the safety of passengers that choose to travel with them. The no fly list exists for this purpose. Those involved in the protest have been deemed to warrant further investigation before being allowed to fly again, as it should be.
Make no mistake. Mr Leary was involved in the protest. Fact.
What if Man Haron Monis had, prior to his demise, decided to conduct a political protest on an aircraft at push back? Would you expect him to be on a no fly list? Or would you think that was just a gross invasion of his right to free speech?
Like it or not, the vast majority of this country support a hard line on illegal immigration. Why is it that the rights of the majority to get from A to B unhindered get trumped by the minority view? If we let these protests go unchallenged then every flight would have a protest of some sort wanting to delay it.
No fly lists exist to protect the travelling public from the Man Haron Monis's of this world. Mr Leary has now found out that exercising his rights to protest have consequences. With rights come obligations and consequences. He is now regarded as being a threat to the security of passengers that would fly with him. Ultimately he may be allowed back into the sky, maybe not, depending on the ensuing investigation. Either way, I suggest he'll think twice before pulling this little stunt again.
Now as to the facts as I am aware of them.
This was an organised protest. Leaflets were being handed out at the boarding gate by those planning to protest on board. Just as the aircraft was about to push at least one of the organisers stood up and started yelling out that they were conducting a political protest aimed at stopping the detainee from being deported, and soliciting support from fellow passengers. Some of those passengers stood up. Each of these protestors was given fair opportunity to resume their seats and avoid being off loaded. Some sat down, some didn't. Those that didn't were off loaded and, quite correctly, put on the no fly list. Qantas has a duty of care to protect the safety of passengers that choose to travel with them. The no fly list exists for this purpose. Those involved in the protest have been deemed to warrant further investigation before being allowed to fly again, as it should be.
Make no mistake. Mr Leary was involved in the protest. Fact.
Last edited by IsDon; 3rd Mar 2015 at 01:07.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but this aircraft would have been subject to a ground delay program & possible slot constraints? If this is the case, whomever stood up and interfered with these programs deserves to be on a no fly list. They are not only interfering with the passengers on this aircraft but a whole airport's & airways system's passengers.
It amazes me that these idiots know NOTHING or NONE of the details of the security assessments done on these illegal immigrants but are willing to allow them to reside in our country?? Morons the lot of them.
It amazes me that these idiots know NOTHING or NONE of the details of the security assessments done on these illegal immigrants but are willing to allow them to reside in our country?? Morons the lot of them.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but this aircraft would have been subject to a ground delay program & possible slot constraints? If this is the case, whomever stood up and interfered with these programs deserves to be on a no fly list. They are not only interfering with the passengers on this aircraft but a whole airport's & airways system's passengers.