Jetstar Second Officer Plans
 

Hi Guys & Girls,


Anyone know some more info or rumours on these second officer plans. They're obviously making way for it in the new EBA negotiations.


Are they currently using a heavy crew with additional FO's on the longer 787 routes or?


Are they going to initiate some SO recruitment as soon as this EBA gets through to save on those extra FO salary $$?

Jetstar Second Officer Plans
 

Apparently it is in the works ATM for 787 SO, however I am lead to believe they are part time positions

It's basically to cover current cadets on the 787 who can't act as PIC when senior crew take rest because they don't have an ATPL. Joke you say? No ones laughing.

One thing is for sure, if Jetstar want it included in the contract then there WILL be a reason for it.

Would that allow AUS-DPS/HKT and CNS-NRT returns (if not already) ?

Its clear its for the cadets to go into. But I doubt it'd be part-time there isn't a provision for it in the EBA unless you did flexi-line SO's ... how would you survive on that money :O


Are they currently taking more than 2 crew on any international flights?


I assume they'll release more routes as the remaining 787's go onto the line.

About half of those who completed end 2013 haven't been put on & same for all 2014 completions.

So gee thats like a wait of wow , like a whole year , how terrible !

All to taken as SOs

So J* did what they said they would do

Progression to airlines , pretty much a zero possibility game for those rotting away at the regional s

Go Cadet Go Direct to the Jet

Flyboat I know their recruitment policy for a fact is about 50% cadet 50% Direct entry. It also looks to me that Direct entry will be for FO spots and SO's will be for cadets moving forward after the EBA is passed.


But back on topic..... This is about the SO spot and where, when & how they'll use them.

Unless Jetstar have some odd sentence or two in their OM then the PIC is the PIC, even if he or she is resting down the back. At least that is the way the rest of the world does it. N'est-ce pas?

Part Time would make sense.

The majority of 787 flying is flown with 2 crew, Bali/Thai/Sing/Japan, and this is where the bulk of capacity lies. The legs are fairly short, they even add on MEL/SYD tags on some flights and fly right through.

The only long hauler is HNL and MEL-NRT where SO's could be used. But these routes are still all A330 and the last to be transitioned over the 787 later this year, early next year so its a little while off yet.

Boatboy

Go cadet, warm the backseat of the jet :)

If of course the eba with the SO rate is ever ratified.

Oh yes, Jetstar are hiring DE FOs right now from GA/regionals. Meanwhile the cadets are waiting on a start date indefinitely.

SO's will be direct entry on SO rate, current cadets won't be moving to SO positions. With limited SO positions required don't expect the flood gates to open.

P.s. The JQ cadetship is dead!

The CP said that SO is the plan for future cadets, at one of the last roadshows apparently. But they're stuck as SO for 3 years so DE will come in as FO's on a lower seniority over that period and after a spot becomes available as an FO after 3 years, they get another Type and moved over.(based off the last EBA proposal)


They're obviously going to be used for flights out of Melbourne & Sydney, only long enough ones. Or are they adding new routes soon? Or could they use SO's now?


I don't really see the use in Flexi - Line SO's, why not just less fulltime ones?


Also are they actually taking DE FO guys currently ? I heard last was a while back in like October.

Cadetship is dead! There's no saving for the company as there's NO JFO rate being negotitiated in the new EBA. As SO's will be type frozen for 3 years JQ don't give a rats who signs on the dotted line as the type freeze equals pay freeze. JQ will interview DE and offer either FO Flexi-Line or SO Full-time depending on requirements take it or leave it.

Yeh I agree Ted, But I think they'll continue to trickle in the backlog of cadets waiting as someone ^^^ up there pointed out. Otherwise it'd be a media storm I'm sure.

How is something dead if the cadets are going to fly the Jet ?

Many howled "no guarantee" of employment, it was just stated that if you performed & met standards , & if there were vacancies you would be employed.

So 100% of those who passed are flying 320/330s or 787s (some already FO on 78 , I think).

And now the remainder of grads to move to the 787

Perhaps it wasn't such a bad program now after all.

What % of 3000 or so eligible GA/regional pilots have joined jet RPT over the last 2/3 , less than 5% - you might think.

Just because there have been no intakes for past two semesters does not mean the program has closed.

Do you think perhaps some GA/regional guys might have a little issue with their 5% chance as compared to the cadets 100% strike rate.

Go Direct to Jet Go Cadet

It must be school holiday time again. Someones got bored and playng on Pprune keeps them amused.

Go back to the bath to play with your boats FBN and leave the aviating to the grownups :)

FBN,

I don't know how you came up with such statistic but what makes you think all or even a majority of those 3000 pilots are seeking employment in a transport category jet operation?

I have not heard the word 'semester' used in the workplace. Hell, I haven't even heard that word since high school. You must be a professional academic/teacher/lecturer. I feel for your poor students listening to you, telling them that they will be flying 78's in 18 months.

FBN you just got BURNT!!!! Now crawl back into your hole you little pest.

C'mon guys this wasn't created to start bagging cadets or arguing if the cadetships over...

I think FBN is talking about inductions into the course, which run on a 6 monthly basis originally. Last 2 never got recruited to start training .

Anyway back to SO's no cadets vs DE opportunity arguing there's other threads for it!

FBN is nothing but a Wannebe who will never BE!

Righto,
Let's get back on topic, shall we? It's NOT about DE pilots or cadets, it's about Jetstar SO plans. :ugh:

It's basically to cover current cadets on the 787 who can't act as PIC when senior crew take rest because they don't have an ATPL. Joke you say? No ones laughing

You are a clown! AviatoR21, those cadets who have been in JQ for 4 years now are all FOs. Enjoy GA!

Looks like the program worked well for those who got selected, and then performed to program standards. From TIFs/SPLs to FO on widebodies in about five years on circa $ 150K to $ 200K.

How long would it take to be an A330FO at Virgin ? 8 years you might think , then add the ten years GA/Regional prior to the job. Only trickle feed to VARA anyways

Think A330 at QF would be around 15 years , but then again they aren't hiring

You mean the heroes that signed up for NZD$55k, no super, $150k in debt and got bailed out by the union? Yeah good for them...

Still worked out well for them, they have had training costs cancelled, a healthy payout from the company, an EBA seniority number, 320 and 787 type rating and over $100,000 per year. Not bad for guys only out of flying school 3-4 years ago. Compare that with say a Jetstar NZ FO who had to pay Jetstar $40,000 for the endorsement, has no right of move to OZ and is earning less, only comparing them as so many cadets are now on LWOP in NZ on a supremely better deal than the ex-link experienced guys who are already there.

Well I think a lot of people would happily trade places with a 25 year old who is now flying an A330 or 787 on at least $150K or up to $200K if you chase overtime.

The debt would be cleaned out pretty quickly on that kind of dough, program cost was $130K I think , or about the same as Sharps

As mentioned for some cadets portions of the training , J* might have refunded

Yep, no argument from me that they've ended up doing well - but that wasn't what they originally signed up to was it... A new low was set when that scheme started.

It was more luck than good planning!

How are cadets any different to anyone who joined and paid for a type rating? Seems the same to me.

It was only through active legal work from the pilot unions, represented by guys who had earnt their stripes the old way that the cadets got the leg up.

Pretty much why the cast program is now on the nose and not being pursued as energetically as in the past.

The "old way" had the company pay for the Type rating while paying a training pay didn't it?

There will be no more type rating costs at Jetstar.

So yes, the days of paying your type rating should be over. In Australia anyway.

Well that is very good news.

What they could do is get work experience kids (yr 10) from around Australia to fill in. Wouldn't have to pay them and pick them up end of year 12 for the cadetship!

All you need is a few only courses and it should be fine.

Well let's just hope they do better than the GA astronauts who nearly dropped an Airbus on its guts while trying to find Avalon.

A bit like the cadets were doing to the A321 hey FBN. They injured that many F/As they were restricted to 12 months on the 320 before they were put onto the 321. The "GA astronauts" were endorsed on the 321 as soon as they completed line training. Must be something to having appropriate experience after all.

Thanks SB. I'm fully aware of what FBN is but I just couldn't resist. The best way to shut him up is present him with indisputable facts, even if what I said was a little bit condescending. I fly with cadets all the time and am very aware of their strengths and their weaknesses.

I am fully supportive of any move by Jetstar to put cadets into a Second Officer position before becoming an F/O.:ok:

Look left,

Do the cadets do the same skill test/ licence proficiency test at Direct entry FOs? Do they need to pass the same checks as other pilots every 6 months? If you are saying they don't get checked the same and are deficient you need to inform your regulator.

Cadets are the way the industry is headed. The A320 and 737 are the old 206 and 210s in most of the world now. With a proper training scheme they seem to progress alright. If you are having a problem in Jetstar with them, I suggest you blame your training department.

SO is a thing for bean counters only. I find it hard to believe any pilot would think it a good idea. It makes for a cheaper flight deck crew only. The best way of learning is being in a control seat, just like how you and I learnt the trade. Multiple sectors in a 320 or 737 will quickly get them up to speed. Sitting in the back seat only increases a managers bonus.

And yes, I (and lots of others) too fly with cadets.