Ah but did they?

Wow mum look at me now
 

Hey keg,
Well done for standing up for where you come from. I agree whole heartedly, sitting in the back seat whatching how it is done is not a bad thing. All this grumpiness has come from a bunch of desperates that have probably got 800/1000 hrs or so that think they nave done it hard. Guys/gals with more than that TT have better things to think of, like doing there job properly. Seriously all you guys that have not been able to get employed as an S/O are just
belly aching. Just enjoy what you do for a living it is the best job on earth. Trust me I know. I have all the the badges and experience to join in the malaise but I have no medical and will never fly again. Seriously you guys that are peed off about a bunch of S/Os need to get a life. IT ain't that bad!!!

So from where i'm sitting, If this EBA gets passed this month, Jetstar will start making preparations to take some SO's early in the new Financial Year when the remaining 787's will be arriving and going into service.

Thoughts?:ok:

There is absolutely no chance of this being the case as they only need a hand full of SO's to cover 3 crew ops, 2 dozen approx.

Why? Worked pretty well in Qantas for about four decades?!?!? Ex RAAFies, ex GA, ex foreign airlines, they all started as S/Os*. :rolleyes:

* A few worked as contract F/Os or even Captains in 2001 after AN fell over but they ended up where their seniority permitted them to be.

hey zebra, wouldn't stress too much mate, they have an employment policy that makes sure like half of their inductions or more are DE.

Its also a case where DE will be taken into FO spots over cadets while they are serving their 3 years as an SO as per contract, after this they are taken over external FOs but seniority will bring them in above any other FO hired through their time as an SO.

So you have at least 3 years until people are flowing out of SO into FO.

When was the last DE intake?

I have heard that some unemployed cadets are not very impressed about the S/O position because they paid for a FO seat.

Makes me wonder!

They "paid" for an FO seat:
:}:}:}:}:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::E:E:E:E:rolleyes::rolleyes:;)

NO, they paid for the opportunity for employment into a Jet operation.

Yeh last one I heard of was around the October November 2014 DE induction. There wasn't any cadets in this induction.


Also cadets can't really complain about the SO thing, money works out pretty similar without paying a type rating back to company now, also the seniority situation means you move in above any FO's hired after you start as an SO & you get a pretty good lifestyle for your first 3 years. Also after 3 years you end up an FO with 2 x Type ratings. Oh and no Flexi-line like the current FO cadets.


downside, don't land or take off for 3 years.


We'll see what happens....

According to one source the SO rate will not appear for a while. The fleet is full compliment with FOs, so until the FOs vacate the fleet there won't be any SOs employed.

Apart from the above mentioned exceptions Qantas hasn't employed any DEFO's. The standard entry point into mainline is to be an SO.

DIVOSH!

My understanding was that there are already routes currently that take 3 crew either 2x FO or 2x captains.

This is why i thought they'd take SO's the moment the EBA is passed (cost savings) - also wouldn't the removal of Junior FO prevent them from taking cadets as FO?

so now the EBA is passed how long until the first Second officers are trained ? must be the next thing on the agenda after the implementation of the EBA....

Portability?
 

From an outsider's perspective I wonder how many cadets planned on being wed to JQ for all of their S/O years plus a couple? Very few foreign airlines recognise S/O time, and low time cadets would need at least a couple of thousand hours F/O time to establish bona fides elsewhere.

Of course, if staying at JQ is your goal, then rank is irrelevant compared to the paycheque. If it isn't the usual maths apply: plot out your expected experience levels against your age. If you hit thirty with less than at least a few thousand hours F/O plus light command time, you risk becoming aviation roadkill to potential employers.

I don't know what the answer is, since I am a relic of a bygone era, barely the same genus let alone the same generation. Good luck to all who apply.

Australopithecus,

Your comments are pretty accurate....

The only difference between your era and the current Is the age you mentioned.

"By your thirties" is these days closer to "by your forties".......

Apart from that, it appears nothing has changed 😀


Eternity.

I wouldn't be getting excited about S/O positions just yet. All that has happened is that the pilots have voted in favour of the EBA. It still has to be approved by FWA then it has to be integrated into the normal rostering and pay systems. Recruiting S/O is way down the list of priorities.

They use ab-initio cadets for RHS positions now so it would make more sense to put them in S/O positions. There was an advanced cadetship initially but it no longer exists.

From the mouth of HR, they are looking at plans for SOs in the latter half of FYI 2015/16.

Once the NEOs arrive, they'll be replacing many of the current 787 bali runs and the 787s will be flying further afield requiring SOs

They are also pretty keen to take the deferred frames plus some 900s. However now all parts of the group are in profit they have to compete for capital and think that domestic/international will be the next to order some new/more frames.

Surely its in their interest with the cost cutting initiative to initiate the program earlier, I heard they take 2x FO or sometimes 2x Captains on some of these longer routes atm.


Do you know if this is actually happening Goblin ?

What happens in Jetstar in a reduction in numbers type scenario? Can F/Os end up as S/Os? Is it done on seniority?