Qantas and the 787-900
 

New grist for the mill. In news just in, Qantas have finally admitted / committed to the orders for the 787-900. For those who watch such things, it was never in doubt as they effectively stole them from Boeing. I mean, it would have been a crime to let the orders go.

Actually, there would be serious grounds to punish the executive team for dereliction of fiduciary duty if the options were let go. But alas, the little Irishman and his team will escape the gaoler in the nick of time. Q1 FY2016 in the parlance of the shinybums, or July this year for mere mortals, is the signing ceremony. Hugs and handshakes all around for the ‘leadership’ team as they tell anyone who’ll listen that they have performed an amazing acrobatic trick and turned international around. With such mastery of the aerial arts, they should be in a circus.

Anyhow, now the spectacle begins. Who is going to fly the 787 and on what contract? Jetstar have set the bar (well more of a tripping hazard) and now AIPA are in deep negotiations to “secure our future.”

One wonders what leverage they have to consummate the marriage. Long haul award and 787, a match made in heaven.

What's to say an in principle deal hasn't already been done.

Qantas aren't prepared to announce a new type without knowing who was flying the aircraft & at what rate.

From what I've heard the Long Haul award wasn't the sticking point, just some of the ad ons.

Hey, Tony the tiler, from where are you getting this info or is it PPRune at its best?

Well, the peeps around Jetstar head office have been saying for about 2 years that when the 787-900 comes then Jetstar will be swapping out a few of the 787-800's for the 900's to enable more long routes. So I expect that the first few will go to Jetstar.

Well, the "peeps" around Jetstar head office have all just been sacked or left. Might need to check with the new "peeps".

We'll see.

So what is a 787-900?

I can only find the 787-9...

Boeing is buying some of the recently retired QF B767's.

Maybe this is sweetening the deal for an upcoming Boeing announcement.

Got a link showing that ghyde?

That was the original plan from back in 2008 or so. By my reckoning there's been at least 312+ new plans since then! :ok:

Dr Dolittle. Yes, until he was announced as the new CEO for QF international. Then it all made sense.

The man from #42 is CFO of Qantas International, wouldn't he being signing the cheques for 787s?

OGJ was purchased by Boeing on 23/01/2015 and the registration has changed to N324BC

Qantas Engineering at its Best
 

http://www.smh.com.au/business/aviation/qantas-poised-to-record-1-billion-profit-ubs-20150128-12zr24.html"]http://www.smh.com.au/business/aviation/qantas-poised-to-record-1-billion-profit-ubs-20150128-12zr24.html]Qantas poised to record $1 billion profit: UBS

Who said Qantas Engineering was dead?

The only problem is that the best Engineers work on the board, and not in the hangar.

What a remarkable turnaround :hmm:

This link works better:

Qantas poised to record $1 billion profit: UBS

You'd have to wonder how large the profit could be if QF hadn't sunk large volumes of cash into -

Various Jetstar entities
Red Q
Locking out employees/customers
Buying then parking A320's for months on end then on selling those airframes to Chinese carriers at discounted prices
etc etc over a period of years

And instead, invested those large sums of money into modern fuel efficient fleet renewal for the mothership.

Very true but unfortunately -438 we are not the smartest men in the room. If only they read this. However I'm sure they know.

Regarding the 767's registered to Boeing; if I recall correctly the 76's that Qantas sold to West Jet in Canada were being sold through Boeing so that may account for the rego change. Can't be sure though.

If theses 787-9 orders for QANTAS are confirmed the question is-

'Has Jetstar International lost its backing from the board?'

The plan for years was 1x787-9 goes to JQ, 1 used 787-8 goes to mainline.

Last year a few 787-8 ordered were cancelled for JQInt and no talk about when 787-9 coming to replace their current aircraft. Only talk about, if QF Int returns to profit new orders will be looked at.

I guess if the same rule was applied to JQ Int it could have been applied last year? Just not announced to the public like every QF profit target :rolleyes:

FFRATS

I think you will find the 3 jetstar 787 deferred not cancelled.
Just because Qantas orders them doesn't mean the are all going to have a red tail.

Qantas doesn't need 787's (330 size). It needs a 747 replacement.

I think you'll find that they need both (an A330 and a 747 replacement). Aren't some of the 330's facing cycle limitations?

QF has a 747 replacement. It is called the A380...

On another topic, it is amazing to read that some bash QF when they lose money [like most others in the world at the time] and bash them when they turn a handsome profit!

Probably because there may be so much rubbery accounting and possibly some of the most destructive and possibly (ahem) less than truthful management (at least since Enron!) that anyone has seen.

I don't think anyone truthfully knows the true health of the company anymore.

My guess is that the 789's could very well come to "the Qantas Group"; quite possibly to an all new entity of " the group". Then maybe crewed via an agency offshoot, of the group, conceivably headed up by a former (or not so former) senior management type, maybe offering circa K$300 & K$200 to capt's & f/o's respectively. Just a guess...

If true, don't be caught standing anywhere near the exit doors in the sandpit.

An external entity called Cobham!

Read the Intergration Agreement.

The future Qantas fleet
 

TBM, unfortunately, the A380 hasn't turned out to be a good B747 replacement which is why AJ cancelled the last 8 that were ordered and, consequently, some of the B747 fleet will remain in service longer than originally planned.

The absolute "stand-out" replacement for the B747 & A380 is the B777-9X and I see QF ordering it for entry into service in 2019 with ongoing deliveries replacing the B747's and then the A380's. I expect the B747 to leave the fleet circa 2020 and the A380 circa 2022-2023 by which time, most of the fleet will be more than 12 years old and thus will be written off.

At the same time, the A330's will be replaced by B787-9's so that, by 2025, the QF International fleet will consist of only B777-9X's and B787-9's (with possibly a few B777-8's & B787-10's for select routes). With both types having a common endorsement and some engineering components in common, there will be significant savings compared to the current fleets.

The A350 has been getting good reviews but I believe the B777-9 will have lower seat mile costs and the commonality with the B787 will sway the decision in favour of an all Boeing fleet.

Or......... we go for A350s as a replacement for the 744s, we get A330NEOs as a replacement for the A330s and then pick up A320NEOs to replace the 737s- the oldest of which is now 13 years old! We go to an all Airbus fleet.

Not that I'm pro Airbus now that I'm driving one, just doing a 'maybe'. The big issue with my maybe plan is the price that we got the 789s at. I don't think we can afford to NOT take them!

Did we cancel those 8 A380s or just defer them? The Qantas website says they're deferred but still on order.

A.Rat,
What I did forget to mention was, that I understand applications will be sought from within, which is a good thing. It could be however that applications will be accepted/invited from elsewhere.
I sincerely hope the former is the case.

Oh dear, so far wide of the mark it's embarrassing, in the meantime keep calm and carry on.

Hi Keg, as one of the launch customers, QF couldn't publicly say that they were cancelling the last eight - Airbus wouldn't sell another one after that. Publicly, they are deferred but in reality they are cancelled. A380 #13 & #14 were already fitted out in the airline specific configuration and the second simulator was complete and about to be shipped so the costs to cancel these would have been huge - you wouldn't take that sort of financial hit unless there was no intention to take the remaining aircraft.

I believe the seat mile costs of the B777-9/B787-9 fleets would be lower than the A350/A330NEO combined fleets. the B777-9 is also larger so would be a better size to replace the A380.

I agree that the A320NEO would be a good replacement for the B738 with its lower fuel burn and immensely greater passenger appeal.

Going Boeing,

Interested to see you mentioned passenger appeal of the 320NEO, something that the A380 has in spades!!

I have no doubt one of the reasons Qantas is doing so well trans pacific is the passenger appeal of the 380, up against the 777s of Delta, Virgin, Air Canada and United.

If i was flying long haul i would choose a 380 over any 777 everytime!

Qantas cannot afford not to take the 787/9s, and they will be able to take over all the 744/330 flying in time.

I totally agree however the lower operating costs of newer technology widebody twins have made 4 engine aircraft obsolete.

I expect the -9 version of the B777 will be as quiet as the A380 with possibly better standards of comfort as new technology evolves.

I agree with the first part of that statement, but the B787-9 fitted with an international configuration won't have have the pax numbers to replace the B744 without the cost of increasing the frequency.

Looking at it another way though, customers tend to prefer frequency over capacity, especially those that wear the suits and sit up the pointy end. It could be argued that the uplift in yield, coupled with the lower unit costs of the 787 may actually see more in the company's coffers than keeping to the status quo.

In an ideal world, QF would use their 787s to open up new routes. Problem is, I'm not sure that QF knows how to grow a route anymore. Maybe a new 49% shareholder in QF Int'l could mix things up a bit?

Whether going the Being route or the Airbus route, airframe consistency with its accompanying cost reductions and efficiency gains in crewing, training, engineering and just about every other area certainly would be a novel idea! Been some time since now.

Excuse my apparent ignorance, but where, exactly, has it been stated that QF is getting the 787 ?

Whats the diff between an A330 and A330 Neo?

A New Engine (option).

You probably know more than me about it. I read that the first flight of the -9X is planned for 2018 so, I assumed that deliveries to airlines would begin in 2019.

Also, the smart launch customers do not take the first aircraft off the production line as they are usually overweight and suffer from technical issues that are not experienced with aircraft that come from a "mature" production line (eg SQ are replacing their first five A380's because of this).

In recent times, new aircraft types have had a number of "launch customers" so CX is probably "a" launch customer - not "the" launch customer.

PS. I just checked the Boeing website and it states that the launch customers are Emirates, Etihad, Lufthansa and Qatar - no mention of CX.

"777-9X in 2019? You're dreaming.

Cathay is the launch customer and they don't arrive until at least 2021."

Throw in Boeing's recent track record for delivering aircraft development projects on time and it could be 2025 before they arrive:).

They have a order from Dixon's days and the options are up soon, so the speculation is they will go to mainline.