F28 to F28 "buddy start"...interesting stuff.

Anyone found an article on F100 to B737 NG "buddy start".

Reminds of things you don't want to hear in the flight deck..
....."Wonder what will happen if I do this?", ....How's about we just give this a try"....."just a second more", ....."OOPPPS".

It was practiced by Ansett in the F28 days - apparently developed by Ansett.

PX asked Fokker about the buddy start option and got blank looks., so copied Ansett's

The F100 buddy start system was developed a few years ago as a solution to flat batteries and APUs not working.

I did a "buddy start" (donor a/c!) betwixed f28's in Rabual,decades ago.I don't recall the procedure in the F100 OM?? I may be wrong. But F100 to NG, WTF is this,an episode of "Bush Mekaniks"??? Lukim Yu , Maus

mauswara,

Doff's me hat to you, never come across or heard first hand of someone who has done a "Buddy Start" between two jets ...Never seen any written procedures in any Jet I've flown (not saying it can't be done, of course - the articles posted state it can.)

In this latest case, and in this day and age, would wonder if a written procedure might be needed ...Interesting what input might have been given by Fokker/Boeing/Rolls Royce/CFM International.

Anyway...anyone know if the F100 is still on the ground, or did it make it back to JAX.

And mauswara
Lukim Yu as well sir

I have done between 2 f100's. Engineer fits mount to left engine bleed valve runs ducting to other aircraft just like air cart. It diverts the bleed that would be used for a cross bleed start. Took about 30mins to 1 hour for engineer to fit.
Would think same for f100 to 737

Rescuing F28's with the buddy start equipment was pretty common in my day. Hardest part was taxing close enough for the hose to reach but far enough away to be able taxi out after coitus.

Bit like life really!

Finally received a breakdown of the buddy start and ferry flight. This no doubt will raise a few eyebrows.

Boeing 737 broke in Honiara.
Fokker was sent with NASA (sic) engineers to rescue it.
Problem apparently Boeing wouldn't start
NASA geniuses (sic) decided a good idea would be to buddy start the Boeing using the Fokker. (Buddy start is a standard procedure in F28 world and became so in F100 world --at least in PX)
Buddy start was only ever done Fokker to Fokker--i.e. same engines.
NASA (sic) decided that WTF it would be the same and hooked it up to the Boeing.
Opinions differ as to whether this minor detail was told to RR
Somehow the F100 over temped for a good 10 secs or more during this process.
After the damage was done it was decided to ferry it back to POM because it was "too costly/inconvenient to do engine change in HIR".
Allegedly RR were in the loop for the ferry flight and it flew to POM.
Everyone connected to the proceedings is avoiding comment
Engine was replaced.

Air Niugini has ordered four Boeing 737 MAX 8 aircraft at the Singapore Airshow. The previously unidentified order adds to the Papua New Guinea national carrier’s fleet of Next-Generation 737s and 767-300ERs.
“Papua New Guinea is like no other place on earth and the 737 MAX will allow us to economically and efficiently connect our beautiful country with the rest of the world. The superb economics of the 737 MAX will enable us to increase flight frequencies and develop into new markets which offer significant opportunities for Air Niugini,” Air Niugini chairman Frederick Reiher said. “As our region continues to grow, the 737 MAX is the perfect choice for Air Niugini positioning us for success and ensuring we continue to provide our customers with the best experience possible. We look forward to receiving our first airplanes in 2020.”
Air Niugini flies a domestic network of more than 25 destinations from its Port Moresby hub, as well as numerous international routes across Asia-Pacific, including Australia, Singapore, Indonesia, Fiji, Philippines, Solomon Islands, Hong Kong, Vanuatu, Japan, and in the near future, China. :D

Jock p

Wouldn't be clapping my hands too quickly....might be just like the order for 2 X 787's.....oops Cancel, Cancel!!!

Has the 787 orders been cancelled?

What about the supposed DHC8 fleet replacement with ATRs, is that still on the table?

I believe the 737 Max would be good for PX.

That has been on and off for years - depends on who is in town buying the board lunch at the time, Bombardier or ATR

Fact is that the ATR is a more flexible machine for PNG long term now that Bombardier have stopped manufacturing the DHC8-200s.

Vicking Twin Otters may even be a plausible solution if PX want to continue to go to places such as Chimbu. It would be a good spinner in terms of training, financial return and satisfying the grass roots people in the rural under serviced remote locations. Air Niugini is PNGs national airline owned 100% by the citizens of PNG.

Salesmen talk actually opened up Chimbu to PX with the DHC7 🇵🇬🇵🇬🇵🇬🇵🇬

Mate, the 787 deal died back in my day, couple years ago...believe that the Max was the way out...AND yeah, looking at the route structure, the MAX will be a pretty good fit. Especially Japan, Singapore etc where the extra fuel will help when CNS is POM ALT in the Wet Season

Next question is what will replace the ageing 767's. PNG need the freight capability that the MAX can't supply.

Guess we are taking two companies though, Link and Pixie.

With the court case about to be heard, pilots from both groups met with the lawyer to be briefed. Two interesting things eventuated from the meeting:

1. Any decision reached by the court will only apply to the plaintiffs (ie Only those pilots who are signatory to the case). Meaning if the decision is in favour of the pilots then those pilots who did not sign will remain on A and B scale and the new contract conditions and those that did sign will revert to the original contract pay and work conditions.

2. A resolution was passed that it is the policy of NAPU and PNGAPA that pilots should politely decline from working on RDO's. Obviously some are being greedy to the detriment of others.

Interesting times ahead.

The court case begins.

The "directions hearing" is scheduled for 16 March 2016.

Update from paradise.

The directions hearing was held on 16 March.

PX legal said they were not aware of the case and asked for an adjournment - refused!

The Judge asked them “what happened at mediation?”
“It failed your honour”
“Why did it fail?”
PX—“don’t know”

Judge perused the Mediation Certificate and report and announced that the Mediator had written a note in the report that in his judgment, PX treated the whole process “in bad faith”—essentially meaning that PX had no intention of coming to any agreement.

The next step is for Lawyers to prepare submissions outlining the case.
Firstly, PX must prepare submission explaining why they did what they did .
(enforcing the un-negotiated contract etc. etc.)
Then pilots Lawyer must sight this and respond.

Submissions to be in court on 7th April, which will be the first step of the case proper.

Further updates as they come to hand.

Sounds like a standard PX answer.

New contract hidden benefit.

Latest is that take home pay has reduced between 7% and 8% under the new contract as the exchange rate has changed, on top of the original 20 - 30% paycut.

Troops are not happy - not that they were anyway.

The knife is out again.

Q400 pilots are being made redundant, first one was advised yesterday with the rest being called in.

Is it a coincidence that the court case starts tomorrow?

Last time PX made guys redundant (late 2014) just about everyone of the "redundees" got an invite for a PX interview......BUT with loss of seniority and, of course the newer LOW "B" scale salary the offer.

In this current situation would have thought PX would simply move the Q400 pilots to the chronically short Fokker fleet......but of course that fleet does not have the training capacity.

Very disappointing to hear this industrial dispute is dragging on for so long, although it doesn't surprise me.

How many pilots are now on the seniority list?

As of 18.1.16 total combined 185, spread is about 50/50

Older air head,

Any news on how many Q400 guys got made redundant?

got you sighted just waiting on confirmation from up North.

Court case moved only one cog but at least it moved.

Judge has directed the release of the mediation results to both parties for their consideration and to reply to the court as to why that process failed. Date TBA.

I see that PX scored well in the 2016 Industry Engagement survey as seen on PPRuNe. Haha. :D

http://www.pprune.org/australia-new-...-survey-2.html

The Management team should have tried just that little bit harder...I am thinking that only a smidgen more effort would have been needed and they would have achieved a Management target of ZERO.

Man, I feel for you guys.

Hey Wantoks, any update on the April 7 hearings ?

It saddens me to hear news of more redundancies, my thoughts are with those affected and their families.

High 6 read post #233

Still waiting to hear when the next hearing will be.

Next court hearing is 5th May. PX is required to advise why they have not reinstated a national Captain who was terminated for refusal to sign the 2015 contract plus further legal argument.

And

Leaked from 4th floor, PX will be removing the A scale from the next contract that is due at the end of this year - All pilots will be on b scale only!

Always been a very anti pilot company
 

I joined PX in the good old days of DC3's, F27 and B707 aircraft and did some 24 years with them finishing up as Fleet Caotain C & T but ........ even back then the management were embittered towards pilots! We had a strong Union but had to fight and kick every inch of the way.

With a massively beneficial exchange rate up to 1.6 AUD per Kina we were on a good wicket plus a hundred bucks a night overnight allowance.

The proposed B salaries will see another eflux of pilots and then the ever present risk of pushing national pilots into positions they are neither qualified nor experienced enough to fill! (I) had to contend with this every day but we had some top notch local pilots who were a credit to the country ............ the push for early promotion was always there, very common in most countries similar to PNG.

I really do worry that this 43 year old death free airline will consequently have a significant lowering of standards as experienced pilots pull the pin and look for greener pastures!

New low for PX, even by their own standards!

Just been advised the recently "retrenched" Q400 Captain returned to POM on company ticket to complete extensive paperwork required on company separation, but when attempting to get Hotel and Allowance Chit gets told that management have declared he is not to be given same nor is he to be given a company supplied Airline ticket back home to Australia!

He had to organise his own accommodation and return travel!

Further adding to the woes is the report that the Kina could drop as low as 0.24 - 0.29 against the $A. Ouch.

http://www.businessadvantagepng.com/...-say-analysts/

Redundancies
 

Don't feel sorry for any one made redundant from that third world excuse for an airline. All the guys who were made redundant last time went on to get much better jobs. You guys are the lucky ones. I feel sorry for the ones who are still stuck there.

And anyone thinking if going there - forget it! Even as a last resort I would not recommend it. If you have any self respect at all don't go.

I am qualified to say these things - I escaped from ANG after a very long sentence in that sespit, Port Morseby - worst place in the world bar none!

There is a reason most of the engineers just get on a flight and leave when it's time to call it quits - even trying to do the right thing causes hassle.

Very sad days as we are seeing the begining of the end for a 40 year old Airline.

With the amount of recruiting that's going on in Australia and Asia at the moment, I find it very different to understand why some long timers are still sticking around. You won't be remembered by anyone when you leave - not even your mates!!!!

With the valve of the Kina falling, you guys are are going to end up earning hardly anything......

I agree Duck Pilot......to a point but there are other factors to take into consideration presently.
The court case is finally getting under way and perhaps people are waiting to see if a positive result translates into positive change?
There appears to be change happening at the very top of PX management and again people may want to wait and see if this translates in to improvements for the pilots.
Finally there is a tsunami of trouble brewing within the government which again could effect this State Owned Enterprise.
Of course nothing may go the way of the pilots in any tangible way and then I agree, an exodus will occur (again).
The next six months will be very interesting.

I wouldn't have any faith in the PNG judicial system, just look at what's going on right now!

Expats trying to win a industrial dispute in PNG?? To many white cans brothers!!!!!

I think the reason that long serving expats are staying is called Stockholm Syndrome, they have fallen in love with their captor.

B767 inbound. :hmm:

DP
Getting a new job for the guys takes time, not like you walk into Woolies and grab one of the shelf..

And plenty jobs in AUS??

767's in for back to back C check, hence wet lease. Although I had heard a rumour they were going to get a third 767 on line. Some smartish person prob realised they didn't have the work........or maybe the spare change.