I'm with The The.

If the choice is a "cunning plan" or management stuff-up,
I vote for stuff-up!:}

Likewise.
The track record speaks for itself.
Honestly can't recall a single 'clever' management decision that hasn't either failed, stalled or been rescinded for many years, but happy to be corrected.
LD

One thing for certain is that Qantas have wasted millions upon millions on advice that have got them little to nowhere. I think what's been spent on consultants would make the endless pile of money poured into JQs Asian entities and the black hole that is JQ international seem like pittance!

Rumour has it the 'revised' offer will include some tinkering with the back pay and annual percentage pay increases. The 18 month pay freeze will still apply. At the same time, the company that is suffering so much that it demands a pay freeze from it's hard working staff, has just found another $57 million dollars to put into loss-making Jetstar Japan. The hypocrisy is nauseating.

Hi slim,

Would you prefer Jetstar Australia subsidise qantas domestic instead so you can get a payrise?

Jetstar Australia is subsidising the Japan misadventures which is why Jetstar Australia is having the screws tightened on Jetstar Australia's conditions.

Management can piss as much money on their Asian casinos as they like. Ultimately it has nothing to do with our operation in Australia. Management should be held accountable for their waste. Not the troops in a seperate division.

I'm not going to sit back and let them screw me because of their investment decisions. Carla licking hard is going to get a rude shock. She's trying to give the troops a **** sandwich for Christmas but I suspect there will be **** in her stocking instead.

Looks like 24k USD a month in China is looking sweeter and sweeter.

Well any increase in annual % from the first offer does help to offset the 18-month freeze. Possibly a win-win.

Adjusting the freeze period to the correct time frame was an obvious outcome by voting NO.

Hi Goblin, although my post related directly the Shorthaul EBA the wider point I was alluding to is that the concept of pay freezes to 'reduce costs' is completely hypocritical when the cost savings are used to support a loss making enterprise. It does not matter which branch of the 'group' the freeze comes from. Propping up a bad business then squealing about the need to reduce costs becomes even more hypocritical when management will receive multi-million dollar bonuses for achieving the cost reduction targets. My hope is that collectively the many group segments with open EBA's will recognise the situation and refuse to accept the offered 'sh@t sandwiches'.

The only trouble with the revised offer is that we now have to provide offsets to get the backpay. No offsets = no backpay.

Its a NO from me.

Sorry...where's the future again? Who gives a #$%t about backpay if there is nothing beyond 4 years to hang your hat on.

And what's the big rush for an answer? Considering it took how long for the first offer? Hmm perhaps the up coming results that will support the senior executives long term investment plan aspirations.
And of course there is the glaring issue of trust......... Or was it leadership? Either way, there is none of it and so the no vote can continue.

I agree, the mere fact that the company is rushing to propose a revised agreement indicates a definite NO vote, hell we've waited 2 years I'll wait another 2 years....

AoA
I agree with that thought process but on the Jetstar side of the fence.

Toolish,

There shouldn't be a fence amongst QF group staff, pity you feel that way the only razor wire electrified fence should be amongst Group front line staff and the pathetic executive managers, vote them down, let them stew then let us go to fair work, that is the most desirable position, I gather you are probably Jetstar so join with us and reject your EBA , it's the best way to get the company shifting in their seats, even with all their consultants...NO all the way to 2016 is the new catchphrase...bring it and let them stew in it...

Our award only covers the 737
We aren't ordering any more 737's
Until we get coverage of any mainline Shorthaul red tailed 737 replacement it's NO from me

Improved Offer?
 

So it's time to vote on the revised offer...

Qantas pilots to vote on new union deal

In a nutshell, what are the main improvements?

Will it get up? Or is it going down again?

PG

Management are pushing ahead ASAP with the Qantas Shorthaul EBA, because they know they are the most likely to accept the 18 month pay cut, of all the different pilot groups in EBA negotiations..

Should be as simple as reading "agree to a 18 month pay freeze", and then circling no the very next second.

Attempt at cash grab votes for significant reductions in conditions. Looking for bigger NO.

The offsets depend a bit on the individual. There are some that won't bother most of us. There are some who milk the SH system for extra pay by picking up extra flying and then going sick. These people will be affected.

If it's a sub standard offer, see if you can beat 95%.

It's Stockholm Syndrome, all of us should be aware of it and I genuinely believe they are putting out these complete crap proposals initially with an expected NO vote to make the next one seem better. We should be aware of it and I believe because of this strategy all pilots should immediately prepare for PIA instead of playing there game, or at least 4 consecutive NO votes.....come on if you use the grade process this is exactly what they are doing. 3% per year! no pay freeze! plus minimum guarantee increase as a minimum. A few offsets as well. That is OUR line in the sand fools....

Nope
 

NO protection from increased Minimum Guarantee (base pay) which is free to QF provided they don't continue to farm off work. NO sensible minimum daily credit. Well the answer will remain NO.