What's ironic is that Qantas whinges about the Short Haul hourly rate being too expensive. The irony being that this original agreement was the result of Oldmeadow's shotgun marriage of the Australian and Ansett awards after the dispute. This award is basically very similar to what both Australian Airlines and Ansett operated under for many years. The hourly rate is higher than that of Virgin because the min guarantee is significantly lower. We have more skin in the game. If a service goes U/S or cancelled or you can't make a connection with aircraft change then Wham you lost the flying and therefore the pay. There is more risk borne by the pilots on this award with the ability to earn or loose more dough without it costing the company. Under CAO48 E we need fewer crew than Virgin but it's up to the company to roster efficiently. This they have failed miserably at for many years. If Joyce and Borghetti want to have a dick swinging competition that's not my problem so don't expect a pay freeze. If Joyce wants to piss money away in Asia feel free but it's not my problem. If the board wants to wedge awards and use contract labour ie Jetconnect Cobham and god knows who else, it is a real problem and you will get no sympathy from me on your self proclaimed pay freeze. Good faith bargaining works both ways.

Current SH EBA
 

Forgive my ignorance, I'm currently doing a comparison between 6 Australian airlines and how they compare to the national employment standards in some areas.

I'm struggling to dig up the current (not the one being voted on) QF SH EBA. The only copy I could get is the 2007 one but surely there is one more recent than this?

If anyone could enlighten me that would be great.

Also have the pilots seen the proposed one yet, or are they only given an overview of changes to vote on?

That's the one. Been expired since September 2012.

Where is the future?
To think this debacle of a negotiation has been going on for more than two years. Good faith bullS#$t!

Within a month or so, after the 737 retro arrives, (ironic.) Qantas will be in the enviable position of having no aircraft orders in the pipeline. Zero.
I'm not sure when the last time this occurred but I'd imagine it was a very very long time ago.
I'd also imagine nearly all qantas pilots have realised that the company simply doesn't give a :mad: about any standards, career path nor reasonable expectations of the pilot body. To look at the issue without the emotion is difficult but sadly that is what it's become.
No one should be under any illusion that a solution is around the corner. Joyce and Clifford are on the warpath to reduce costs, at any cost. The main one being your career, or more importantly your terms and conditions. Their bonuses and the 33 million plus share rights are tied to it. See the annual report for confirmation.
Because of the pilots association with AIPA and what it represents to Clifford, even more reason to be fearful of the future.
Arriving in brisbane the other night to see five 717s parked on the ground, you simply conclude that this eba could well be the last one for qantas mainline pilots.
And it has nothing to do with pay rises, super contributions, virgin comparisons etc etc. Because as it stands, there is nothing to hang your hat onto beyond the four years.
Finally, Joyce, Clifford and the executive management lost the trust of their word and the value of respect with the pilot body years ago. As a result any attempt to suggest to trust them with the future and your own career is a laughable suggestion.

Current SH EBA
 

Thank you SandyPalms. I was struggling a little with the concept that it had been expired for so long.

Masters research project is coming up with some interesting information doing EBA comparisons.

Certainly is ironic that the last ever aircraft ordered for mainline will be delivered in a retro colour scheme. I guess we can see her and reminisce of careers lost.

I think you will find it's all going pretty well exactly to "the Kid's" timetable :E

Negotiating in good faith. Yesterday the head of IR at Qantas met with AIPA. The result, we will put it to the pilots again and tell them there will be no back pay. Gee, how good are they?

Couldn't give a flying about their back pay.
Just like the senior execs who have the 33 and half million shares locked up in the LTIP. Which, ironically, will vest prior to the end of this currently "under negotiations" eba.
How long term is that!
This one is about the future, not the next four years.

For some reason this thread has got really small on my ipad, I guess it's something to do with that photo.

Dragon man,

Doesn't matter, it's all white noise, they can crap on but it will be rejected if it's unacceptable . Stay the course, it's hardly any different to all negotiations. Stay strong and be stronger, it would be funny if it got voted down even more lol!

Apparently punctuality is down big time in the last month. Cutting staff/costs and expecting tech crew to fix it up enroute? They reap what they sow. The NO vote is almost a direct correlation to the engagement levels. The single most powerful group is pissed off the most by management. They are untrustworthy, manipulative, leeches and this current toxic relationship will take a generation to repair. PIA next year is certainly not unrealistic judging by the current opinions I am hearing.

AoA,
The photo was indeed the problem. There is a guide in GA on resizing photos before posting.

This thread should look okay now :)

Sorry mod I think that was my post that broke teh interwebs.

Broke?????? My screen melted :}

Resize and re-post, and you'll be fine ;)

So it's highly likely that the next offer will be far worse to use us evil short haulers as an example to everyone else with EBA's coming up , that you better accept the scraps from Allen or else.

Or, I wonder if they will look up the the scroll of love mounted on the wall and approach the next offer with fairness and understanding as promised?

:rolleyes:

Doesn't matter they have 2 choices, make it more palatable or Industrial Action, pretty simple really. Ignore the white noise and stay the course, and that course is looking like destroyed on time performance and Industrial Action. Reap what you sow! Haha!

Something is brewing industrially here!
We have an obvious Qantas Management inspired industrial script being followed to the letter by all Qantas entities’ contract negotiators.

It’s as if Qantas Management is manipulating events to cause a company wide , legally allowable Fair Work sanctioned Industrial sh!t storm to engulf it .

One has to ask the question why?

This is just a hypothesis being run up the flag pole to see if it flies under public scrutiny.

So we now see PUP, Clive Palmers United Party that held sway in the Senate about to implode.

We see big business and the Abbott Liberal party openly talking about how an American styled Chapter 11 process could work here in Australia to allow distressed Australian business ’ trade their way out of difficulties through reorganisation of the business under this process .Wouldn’t this type of mechanism achieve exactly the same thing that Work Choices was designed to do?

Is the fall of PUP and its balance of power in the Senate, Abbott’s cue to push for a Chapter 11 type process?

We have the Fair Trade G20 talks that have allowed a door to open for Chinese 457 visa workers to come flooding in.

We have Abbott and the Liberals stressing again and again that “Work Choices is dead and buried!”( of course you would ,due to the political stink it caused)


WILL Qantas be the Liberal Party poster boy industrial vehicle to implement this hypothesis?

Is what happening in Qantas Short Haul, Jetstar, Qantas Link, Cobham, Network, soon to be Qantas Long Haul ,have I missed any?, a precursor to a Company orchestrated Company wide Industrial sh!t storm of unprecedented proportions to sway public opinion whipped to a crescendo by the Murdoch press to allow Abbott and the Liberals to launch their Plan B ,to Work Choices,a Chapter11 clone?

Precisely gasket.
Some have suggested the company is getting themselves into a corner with so many eba's open, however, lets not be so naive to think this whole plot hasn't been orchestrated with only one view in mind.
A rewrite, no an offer, no a take it or leave it approach, and industrial relations panacea in the eyes of clifford and the neo conservatives.
We will wait and see.
But sure as S#$t, Olivia will have all the lines ready to go when the time is right.

I think it's no more than a repeat case of inept management being once again led down a path by industrial relations consultants and consulting law firms. More turmoil simply guarantees that the river of money to the consultants continues to flow unabated.

The 2011 shutdown proved nothing, except the gullibility of management in a harebrained plan that cost shareholders some $200m and trashed the brand. It was meant to be some watershed moment in industrial relation reform in this country, but was a complete fizzer. The longhaul pilots even got backpay out of it. Somehow (again proving the ineptness of management), the industrial consultants and law firms continue to offer their advice and continue to guide the company into industrial turmoil. All the time, management and the board stand behind nodding their heads at the "strong stance" taken against the unions, completely oblivious to how much they are being taken for a ride.