Qantas Short Haul EBA 2014
 

Vote commences 17 Oct
Would be interesting to see what big brother is being offered

There are a few reasons ill be voting NO, the main one being I don't think 'go f*& yourself' is an option on the ballot.

Couldn't have said it better myself! :D :ok:

What will that achieve?

Apart from retaining some self worth and dignity you mean?

The don

Why wouldn't it? This is PPRUNE. Just about every thread degenerates into childish squabbling!:ok: :E

The ability for the AIPA negotiators to show the company that what they have been offered is not good enough.

no squabbling here.

QANTAS Long Haul EBA
 

And as the last dollar of that company called QANTAS International silently slid into his account, he smiled. He would have flown the sector if it hadn't been cancelled because there was no one left to fly it with him. And he knows that if he had given any of his conditions away he would never have got them back. He felt proud that none should follow him on less than he had demanded for himself. The End.

What's the QF LH EBA got to do with the vote before us commencing on the 17th:confused:

Below average 1st post:zzz:

Mr Average737,

Hook, line and sinker....

But it would be great if your prediction was going to happen, Joyce was flying the last sector to Ireland, cuddle's a new leprechaun on arrival. He's jealous fairy in Australia flys to Ireland and demands the same conditions as he has with Joyce in OZ but only to be told your conditions only apply in OZ.

I think A737 is a dig at QF pilots accepting in the future the the last EBA's ' conditions' the COMPANY agreed to....:ugh:

Get a life..

Qantas EBA is the topic and like it or not the final document will be voted on and effect other pilots outside the vote, positive or negative but give a benchmark to work towards.. better than looking at 'The End' for your fishing trip reasons and reflect...

FFRATS.

Good morning Olivia.

Should probably rename thread QF SH EA 2014 so as to not confuse it with the soon to be open QF LH EA 2015! :ok:

Qantas Short Haul EBA 2014
 

What's the co. actually trying to get you to give up in this SH EBA?

Please tell me they're not going for another B scale.

How about QF SHEA 2012 as that is when the 'negotiations' commenced!

FFS
The date after the word EBA will be the year it is ratified.

It's not a bad deal on face value but as usual Qantas has yet to address the real issues. Where the hell is the company going and when does an F/O with 8 to 10000 hours on type be given a career which was the reason they joined Qantas in the first place. A pilot commences their career with the expectation of one day gaining a command. Career progression is stagnant whilst the orange cancer grows. Until there is some direction, history will repeat itself and without the vision of a new type, pay and conditions are conciliatory at best. Rumours as usual flourish at this time. Wow 737s might be doing Singapore returns out of Perth. Bali is being seriously looked at. Back to Jakarta. Said that in 2012 and nothing happened. Fluff to get the troops on side. Perhaps Qantas should just apologise for the contemptuous way they stalled the negotiations for nearly 3 years under the guidance of Oldmeadow Consulting. I am quietly optimistic for the future but my optimism is tainted with the taste of reality. It's not about the dough but about the future.

Gday Troo,

its not a bad deal, its a f*&^ing insulting deal

Agreed. Thats why anyone who has more than a few years left and votes 'Yes' needs to have a good look in the mirror.

I hear the orange cancer will be making a sharp retreat very soon.....

One can only hope this gets a 90% + NO vote:mad::mad::mad::mad:

I hear the company negotiator reeeeeeeaaaallly wanted those half lines.....I wonder why??:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Hey cloudsurfng, are you able to expand on the Jetstar "sharp retreat" rumour?

I've been hearing the opposite??!?

from a management pilot:

Jetstar is not working
A split at board level, some have finally woken up and realised people hate jetstar
Lost too much, QDOM is the profit machine, need to grow (how with a loss of airframes???)
jetstar budgets are good (from their management figures), but the actual costs are significantly higher (to the point where QF is cheaper...mainly due reduced fixed costs because of better aircraft utilisation...anyone seen a 787 flying?...watch this space re HNL)
the A320 on order, some marked to replace JQ aus leased airframes will be sold instead, i.e. a reduction of airframes in JQ aus

JQ slots on traditional 'city flyer' routes to be reduced and replaced by mainline or not replaced at all (no growth or a slight reduction)

Thats about all I can remember........i believe the words were 'a significant rationalisation of JQ routes'

hope that helps...we can all hold on to some hope, right??

Oh yeah, also had some stuff to say re the 717 operation. To be fair, for a variety of reasons, the 737 wasn't right on the routes at some times....

was the best solution at the time
is costing money due consistent delays
the contract can be given, the contract can just as quickly be taken away.....

whilst listening to these 'facts', i was considering that said pilot may just be trying to pass on the koolaid in order to get an EBA vote up....

make of it what you will..


but for me, still an absolutely overwhelming could not be more at this end of the spectrum NO.

Hmmm....very interesting. Thanks for the prompt reply. One thing for sure, it's obvious that they've dropped the ball on the Q product & she sure needs some attention!

A little research will tell you that Jetstar has diluted the Qantas Brand. Many loyal QF frequent flyers will NOT fly Qantas domestically because of the risk of flying with JQ. Unless things change the yield will continue to be destroyed. Quick research will reveal that the cheapest fares across the Tasmen in the last three months is Air New Zealand and the most expensive is ALSO Air New Zealand. Surprise, Surprise the FRONT pays for the BACK and all on ONE airline! And guess what ANZ is Profitable! Magic!:ok:I think this is an experiment that the world will learn from. Let's hope it is not too late for Qantas.

Before the likes of The Professor chime in and roll out the old chestnut that the Company doesn't owe you a career check out the QANTAS recruitment website

cloudsurfing thanks, I really hope there's some substance behind what this person is saying - all it takes is enough people to wake up to what's actually going on! QF management seem to be 10-15 years too late into the arena, look at how ANZ and BA have turned themselves around.

There's a lot of A320 orders on the books, wouldn't the A320/1neo be perfect for QF domestic - I think Airbus are quoting a 13% decrease in operating costs compared to current 737s? Imagine what that would do for the bottom line, not to mention putting pricing pressure on competitors.

This seems like a good idea, anything to make JQ an actual LCC!

And the 717s - this really puzzled me at the time. When it started out, QF had a big surplus of pilots. QF own all the 717s (I believe) - so why weren't current crew offered 717 positions on SH-like conditions? Say 10% less? There are so many benefits from the company's point of view regarding lower rates of pay, annual leave, utilisation etc.

Of course, setting up their own AOC or adding the 717s to the current AOC takes time and Cobham did fit in there in pretty quick fashion but maybe a more long-term view would've been much more efficient for the actual owners of the aircraft! Not to mention some of the crew, maybe some of those 8-10,000hr FOs would've taken the opportunity to apply for a command, or commuters could've taken a spot closer to home. Can't have happy employees though can we.

Qantas domestic aircraft utilisation could be so much better. Remember not so long ago, QF 737's were doing many red eye services back from Darwin, also Bali, Jakarta, Singapore as well as all the Tasman flying.

In Qantas' wisdom, these services have been replaced by additional airframes (Jetstar & Jetconnect) & all the additional crews etc.
Anybody who thinks it is cheaper to put chocks on existing airframes and operate an entirely different fleet over routes that were previously done in house should not be involved in airline management.

Qantas Short Haul EBA 2014
 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Hear, hear!

What would pilots and engineers know about running Qantas? Seemed to run pretty bloody well for the first 70 odd years until the hotshots arrived. Sick of being bull****ted to then vote No. You have nothing to loose. Absolutely nothing.
All group pilot EAs being open at once should be interesting. Popcorn or Vaseline?

Straw poll of QF Short Haul pilots.

What needs to be be added to the curent offer to get a YES vote?

What needs to be removed from the current offer to get a YES vote?

Shutdown Jetconnect and give the assurances that Virgin pilots are afforded. Conduct yourselves with integrity. Simple.

Sorry to say ConfigFull, All 18 717s are leased by QF for Cobham.
:)F

Just spent two weeks at Harvard Business School....Surprise, Surprise. Latest mantra is Engagement, Common Goals and CAREER! WOW who would have thought! Just like Qantas...1980's Divide and Conquer!

Qantas Short Haul EBA 2014
 

I don't think SH pilots should be looking at this as an 18 month pay freeze. It is a 4.5% FOREVER (compounded) pay freeze.

Otherwise the company would be looking at reimbursing the 4.5% at a
later date (which was requested by the
union).

The last pay rise was in 2011 for Shorthaul crew. The issue is that fair work would give a better deal than what the company is offering. We are willing to wait another year or two and if the company doesn't come to the party then so be it, it will go to Fair Work and they will lose just like they did with the Long Haul fiasco. It will be in the order of 75-80 percent NO vote. Last one took 3 votes so this is just the start... bring it! It will be interesting to see the tactic once the ball is shoved in their court....

Harvard business school eh? That means we will see that mantra in OZ in 10-15 years, in the meantime, the beatings will continue until morale improves. :}

I hear the penny has finally dropped at head office, and they have finally realised that there needs to be more Qantas and less Jetstar, if the Qantas group want to keep the loyal Qantas passengers!
Australia is a mature air market, and there is way too much LCC capacity around at the moment!

In my last 23 years since 18 years old I have worked in 3 industries and 3 unions. And the bull crap always comes out from management regarding a NO vote. There is no reason to keep calm regardless of vote, just vote what you think, there is no downside to a NO vote or a yes vote. Vote no negotiations continue, vote yes you get it. I can't believe people actually are concerned about voting NO, it's Laughable. it will be demolished with a NO vote I am sure but by George the Yes men are campaigning well, I guess that's what they are paid for though. There should be a 3rd option Vote Corridoor Creepers! That might get a few percent max... Just like PUP.

AoA,

Think you took the image I posted a little too literally.

It is nothing more than a catchy slogan borrowed from somewhere (Scottish independence vote springs to mind) and no doubt you've seen it around the place.

I agree, there is no need to be concerned about a No vote, we have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Bring on 80% plus!

Cheers

So with JQ picking up Qantas mining charter work in WA, how are the board pissed off with Jetstar & how are things swinging back towards Qantas??

I think both brands are here to stay, so we can put that rumour to bed.

To be precise that's Network / Qantaslink charter work, not QF Mainline, bdcer.

True, but I was referring to the previous mentioned comment that Jetstar was about to start contracting in favour of Qantas.......it's frustrating, we all hear contradicting rumours.