You guy's are all dreaming if you think Joyce should go. It's just a way for you to avoid looking in the mirror. QF need to cut all costs and leave the taxpayer alone. Unless you are the sort of idiot who voted labor and got us all a carbon tax, RET, restrictive EBA's...

"The unions have been - they’ve stonewalled Qantas at every turn when they’ve tried to get productivity. Some have been very co-operative. Other ones have been extremely belligerent and it’s time that some of these unions smelt the aviation coffee, if you like, of global aviation, and that is: you’ve got to be competitive.... Their average wage cost was $92,000. In the international space, Emirates’ wage cost average is $47,000, Singapore Airlines: $42,000. So Qantas is way out of step with their international competitors, and in the domestic space, their wage cost is about 16, 17 per cent higher than Virgin Australia."

Got a source of that quote?

punters already abandoning QF
 

this time of year is a very busy time for agents booking flights at Xmas.

With the Winter Olympics just over, skiing advertising was up & many people thinking about skiing earlier than usual.

But, people aren't booking Qantas.

Why cos they fear, QF will close down soon.

Even if you pay by credit card & get your funds back when an airline closes down, it doesn't help you find cheap seats, in peak season.

So to avoid the stress people fly VA or any airline but QF.

Got to get QF off the front page of news.

Unions stop talking nonscience about strikes & start talking about multi-tasking of jobs & ways to save Qantas money. Any strikes will bring the end so much closer.

How could anyone in their right mind defend Joyce, the board and senior management. Look at the track record since his tenure. Facts can't be denied. The truth will set you free. Efficiencies and work-change have occurred in every single department in qantas. Wages/staff/unions are not the issue. Failed strategies, fleets,jetstar are some of the core issue. Tired of repeating myself but will continue as long as the trolls try to defend abject failure by aj etc

A management troll that's who...

Posted the same thing on two different threads. Come on mods - step in and ban them!

Quote (bodybag): Offensive to you ditzyboy..
unfortunately not to the majority of your co-workers.
Qantas has a very real problem with its workforce.. A whole lot of rott and they feed off each other!
I'm sick of hearing Qantas staff at large blaming it on management for not engaging them properly.. seriously??
A lot of egotistical, lazy and greedy people.
Unless they lose some of their trouble makers and make the remainders realise that they DON'T have a job for life they are on borrowed time.
I'm so sick of hearing excuses.. They start with AJ and they continue through the entire workforce.

Well said bodybag. :ok:

Ditzyboy

I'd ignore the unnecessarily rude comments from a few of the posters on this thread. They probably don't fly QF anyway - just want to stick the knife in.

As a mere passenger I appreciate very much the job done by the cabin crew. I always make a point of a friendly "hello" when I board and to those stationed at their respective positions as a trudge my way down the back. I also thank the crew on disembarking. I have also, on occasion, written letters of appreciation for that little extra that I may have experienced. I have no idea, however, if the crew ever get to hear of those commendations as it usually results in a "form" email response but I do it anyway.

Thanks!

$110K Qantas average salary
 

quoted in paper 2 days ago.

How can any airline survive when people get paid so much for doing so little.

a post from RampDog in Feb 2010 -

In all jobs and professions, only the select few ever get recognised for their contribution. It is usually the endeavours and labours of people with passion and dedication that although unacknowledged, bring success and harmony (and of course healthy profits).

In the race to the bottom line, I hope that these people don't fall by the wayside. I'm at QF and every day I see many people in "menial" but essential jobs, who feel they are being forced out. Management should start at this point and build morale and the business back into shape, aim sky high, because that's what aviation is all about!

He is Gooooooornnnn :ok: matter of time ;)

Yep! I agree. Joyce is done. If for no other reason than the board needs to divert attention from themselves. Don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out. Then again...lots of padding in the form of a bonus will make sure it doesn't hurt.

Joyce is the patsy, he was always meant to be. Standard practice when you want to restructure something like QANTAS.

Bring him in, get to a particular point where every one will do anything to save it, give him the boot, appoint a new one and mold the company how they want it to be.

Joyce will keep a low profile for a while and then get appointed as CEO to another cushy spot proving he's a executive team player and prepared to take it one for the team.

You are all just falling into their hands.

bmam7
 

Thanks for your post, crew do receive letters of commendation some times many months later but that is just paperwork winding its way through the bureaucracy. We always appreciate your thanks as we actually get very little encouragement from our managers. Hopefully you're on one of my flights and I get to do a little extra for you.
Cheers from all the cabin crew

Source of that quote?
 

Keg, According to Aunty, it was GT. Here's the link.

Agree with the sentiments of most in this thread. However using terms such as "jetcancer" add no credibility to the thread or the poster. Real Australians work for the various Jetstar entities and their jobs matter too. Or are only mainline pilots relevant?

that's the wages , lets not talk about the staff travel for the auntys next door neighbours cousin whose best mate who left Qantas ................

Qantas makes money out of Staff Travel.
Next!:hmm:

Tell 'em they're dream'n
 

I consider myself one of the "lucky ones" who bailed 7 years ago. Qantas was/is and always (hopefully) will be one of the worlds great airlines.

BUT- courtesy of poor decisions (not buying the 777's :ugh:), govt backed competitors, air fares not keeping up with costs etc etc.....the business model is Fckdeu !

I still recall sessions in the late 90's when a certain GM would bang on about the PAN AM diagram -when operating costs and revenue were 2 lines heading towards a delta. Well -sadly it was true :{

So what next:
1. Sack AJ .
2. Bring in someone who can -engage staff, speak english and understands that aviation is a people business with skilled Pilots, Cabin Crew,Airport Staff, Ramp Staff,Engineers & Office staff etc
3. Sack LC and some of the Board
4. Get on your knees and pray that this nightmare will come to an end- we bottom out and climb out with full thrust into infinity and beyond.:E

Agreed! Will be interesting to see how it all plays out. If there is enough pressure for him to go, he may be sacrificed early & that will change the game! Time will tell.

Joyce a patsy? I doubt it. You make it sound like they (the board?) deliberately chose someone to drive the company into the ground.

Joyce sold the board a plan.

The Board bought it & supported Joyce.

But it was a terrible plan.

I reckon they have past their PNR & they are just riding it out with a serious degree of Group think amongst the Board & CEO(s).

From my take on the matter, the board selected a candidate based on what they saw as important at the time: taming the unions and returning shareholder value through cutting costs and expanding revenue. AJ has to work with the board and is part of the board, so while AJ may be the CEO, he has not operated independently of the board's agreement. What many on Pprune have noticed for years now is that the priorities have become a little scrambled. Shareholder value has been placed above customer and employee value, and in doing so, customer and employee value have headed south, rapidly followed by shareholder value. The board keep trying to tweak with the shareholder value, not comprehending that it is tied inextricably to the lead of the other two. They're trying to keep the fuselage airborne while the wings are disintegrating. The entire board deserves the blame. That's what they're paid for. They'll work it out in a few years time when they no longer have to concern themselves with the day to day running of an airline.

That may well be the plan. Time will tell.

Its just as well that the staff uniform is interchangeable, and as bad as, KFC's

If Singapore Airlines can fly Singapore - Perth return four times a day and make money, yet Qantas fly Perth - Singapore return once a day and manage to lose money there must be something wrong with the business model.

Other industries have virtually disappeared from Australia because the cost of doing business there is too high, and international airlines based in Australia could easily be next on all but a few routes where they don't compete head to head with Asian and Middle Eastern hub airlines.

QF could have been a successful small airline along the lines of Air New Zealand had it moved with the times and operated the B777, and maintained it's reputation for quality and safety which is now trashed.

Alan Joyce isn't totally responsible for todays mess, the rot set in long ago. Unfortunately he isn't capable of fixing it.

D-I-X-O-N, I believe is the name you are looking for. I call it white collar crime.

BNEA320.

Your posts always provide me so much to smile about. They keep showing how green you are. Of course, because it was in the paper it is true..... go back to Flight Sim version whatever it is now.

autopilot.

The term 'jetcancer' is not offensive. It is an incredibly accurate analogy. QF is dying, and it is self inflicted from pursuing the folly of Jetstar. Like the smoker who dies from lung cancer buts keeps smoking cigarettes seemingly ignorant to the cause, so too are the QF management and Board in their pursuit of Jetstar, which is in the process of killing the entire QF Group. You mightn't like the term, but it is very very accurate.

but he's spent the past 5 years promising he will, and only making things worse.

I can't believe HE still has a job.

"Its not acceptable" - that's right Joyce - and you its all your fault!

Can someone point me to that impassioned letter sent to Clifford and his brush off response?

Elements of Jetstar are sound and would compliment the Qantas group nicely. Jetstar Singapore / Hong Kong / Vietnam and Japan should have been 'gone' on the 27th. Jetstar Domestic and New Zealand including the Tasman should have been frozen at current levels and Jetstar International (330 / 787) should have been shutdown, no one will ever convince me that low cost longhaul is a good idea (and I work for them).

The 787's should have been immediately rebranded to Qantas with the 747 and 767 being completely replaced. This would have given a return to profitability much sooner and also given Qantas time to pursue the staff efficiencies and cost base they seek. It makes me sick that staff are suffering whilst the company continues to pursue non sensical businesses.

BNE320. Ask yourself why there is so little to do. I love the analogy that was told to me too many years ago to state.

“As a surgeon I can teach you how to take out an appendix in 10-20 minutes but it will take years for me to teach you what to do if something goes wrong.”

Yep those boys and girls just walked in and said give me a job up the front and pay me $110k and that’s how easy it was. I take it you still believe in Santa and the Easter bunny?

Good Post Ollie, I am not Pro or anti Jetstar but the 787's to Jetstar was a extremely poor decision. The A330's are fine and the synergies of an Airbus only fleet must outweigh the perceived advantages of the 78? The A330 is a pretty damn effiient aircraft, thats why they have been so popular.. The 787 would be a perfect replacement for the 767, and hell if management are hell bent on not putting it on the Long haul award they could make a new contract and at least offer it to the longhaul pilots..

Consider:

The CEO is not there to win a popularity contest.

The company is not there to employ people.

The staff of QF is of no better quality than the staff at similar airlines.

The business will not support the wage disparity between QF staff and staff at other airlines forever especially considering the above point.

QF is not a profitable business. Do the employees of QF think change will not occur?

Metro man,

Re singapore fly 4 times daily perth Singapore, Qantas once,

Can everyone please get over this carry on about how many more frequencies singapore and Cathay have to/from Australia to their hubs!

For example take a look at singapore to Dubai, emirates 3 daily, singapore one!

Osaka Kansai to Hong Kong, Cathay 4 daily, code share with Japan Airlines, but all Cathay metal, All Nippon one!

London to Dubai, British two, Emirates five, and all A380s!

So on a global basis it is not uncommon for another airline to operate greater frequencies out of another airlines home base!

So yes singapore and Cathay have greater frequencies ex australia to their hubs, and a lot of that traffic is onward transfer to other destinations.
But in other markets they do not provide the greater frequency!

Prof,

Sorry, I can't stand it ...

You once said that Dixon was a brilliant CEO ... well that turned out well, didn't it ..... .

You don't think QF staff KNOW the CEO is not there for a popularity contest? They want proper management, not what we have .. please stop with your condescending f*&^g attitude. And please stop this banging on about QF wages. It is largely false and REALLY tiresome.

Oh, and QF's troubles wouldn't have anything to do with it being neglected? Keeping the aircraft fleet contemporary (oh that's right, the money was spent on J*) would make QF profitable overnight. (and I won't go into the alleged bill paying)

I think that's about it ....


Sigh ....


N


PS .. oh and as a retired airline manager ... how do you feel about a couple of billion spent on consultants, rather than managing the business yourself. If memory serves I believe that is what the bill comes to over a number of years? Willing to be corrected ...

PPS .. and regarding a CEO being popular. General Patton comes to mind. Not someone the line troops would feel comfortable slapping on the back and buying a beer for, however he was revered because they KNEW he had hard decisions to make and they TRUSTED him to not needlessly throw their lives away. The fact he led from the front on occasion didn't hurt either.

Frequency is less important than profitability. SQ, CX, EK, QR and a few others manage to operate a Perth route internationally because of their onward connections but QF can't.

Unfortunately Sydney is located in the wrong part of Australia for connectivity with flights from most other cities going in the opposite direction. If Sydney was located around Broome it would be a reasonable connection from other cities for travel into Asia or on to Europe on QF, however being where it is it's too much of a detour when the competition are going more or less in the right direction. PER - SYD - LAX yes, PER - SYD - LHR no way.

QF seem to have followed the wartime strategy of the "Brisbane Line" and abandoned the rest of the country to foreign airlines.

Professor......right on! :ok:

Noip....?? :rolleyes: