Virgin Australia (NZ) Pilots Strike Notice
 

Have Heard a strike notice has been issued? Guessing contract negotiations
Didn't go so well :ugh:

Incorrect. I believe it is the cabin crew who have issued a strike notice at this stage.

Minimum wage.incorrect.

so where are the pilots with their negotiations now that RT has left? Is it close to being resolved? What has been offered?

The pilots have not issued strike notice. It has been put to ballot. Previous strike notices were pulled prior to facilitation.

So parking the planes this time eh...

Yep, confirmed. Boys are parking the planes.

KIWI's going on strike,now i've heard everything.There would be more chance of hell freezing over

I hope they are prepared to follow through! Good luck boys and girls, I wish you well and hope you achieve a good outcome.

Skygod, I mean QF1, thanks for your expert opinion and support.

You know it continually blows me away.

Low cost?, Tough financial environment, just help us through this rough patch!

Can someone post just how piss poor the salaries are.

If the paying of your professional pilots (with whom the future of the company literally rides upon), equitable wages and conditions, will in some how result in the financial disadvantage of said company, then why even bother in being in the game in the first place.

The complete destruction of goodwill, not to mention the damage that industrial action will involve, must surely outweigh any ill conceived gain.

Here's an idea. Sack all the HR, middle managers, and other parasites, and use the savings to ensure the long term viability of the company!

Good post Krusty.
Good Luck to those over the ditch. Equal Pay for equal work.
Unfortunately the motivator for better T's & C's will be the attraction of good crews to Operations elsewhere who appreciate what each of these employees have to offer.

So can someone who is actually in the know,
tell us what you are actually getting?
What you have asked for?
and what has the company offered you?

Good luck to you all. I hope you all stick together!

Unfortunately the pilot's position is not as strong as it once was. Air NZ can cover a lot of the Tasman flying and VA can cover the ex-Australia flying. Having said that the VANZ (PB) Ts and Cs have needed an overhaul for a long time.

The shelves are bare.
 

Krusty, well spoken :ok:
There is always a financial excuse as to why everyone in the frontline should get rogered while management retain their bonuses and unjustifiable salaries.
Take it to them I say, both barrels blazing.

As for HR and parasites, at least RT has gone, that will save you $800k per year. And it is time Borghetti cleaned house and ditched the layers of management and specialists. What a crock. Read it and weep John. And Branson is still getting his tens of millions per year for the rights to use his stupid company name and logo on their shiny toys, another crock. They all cleaned house - Branson, Godfrey, Highfield, Huttner, Sherrrard and Co, all the mates and they left behind a shell that still can't make decent returns for investors. Now that is lame!

I would hope VA will not be undertaking work. It is in their interest to get the Kiwi guys up. We don't want a qf jq.

Not sure, but believe it is illegal under NZ law for the work to be done by VAA while VANZ are on strike. Anyone in the know about this?

I'm unsure whether action by VA (Australia) crews would fall under the description of a secondary boycott, considering the primary action is occurring in another country.

I suspect any action in Australia would be considered unprotected, nonetheless..............

So once again, can anyone clarify:
what is it exactly the NZ guys are getting in T&Cs? How does it compare to other NZ operators (i.e jetstar etc)? what has VNZ guys asked for?
and what has been offered by Virgin?
Since the topic is about striking for conditions, can anyone clarify the above? genuinely interested.
cheers

Sorry but no, you won't find that info on here, all just rumour.

2nd hand info, but told they are on wages comparable to their Australian counterparts.... Flying TURBO-PROPS!! And of course in NZ pesos.

As for conditions, not sure?

There would be nothing illegal about it at all.

Or, VAA could just take over the routes ex Aus and crew them themselves? With the current reduction in 737 flying its possible to crew some routes out of BN, SY and ML.

It's possible for sure, but would significantly increase the operating costs for JB. Though you never know what they are planning with the VAI 737 operation.....
But JB is saving about 85k per year in wages alone per crew having NZ operation.

Perhaps, perhaps not. Section 97 of the NZ Employment Relations Act 2000 may have something to say about that!!!

Employment Relations Act 2000 No 24 (as at 01 July 2013), Public Act 97 Performance of duties of striking or locked out employees ? New Zealand Legislation

Think it would depend on the company setup and who is deemed the employer. Are the pilots employed by a NZ company or the Australian company.

In other words is the employer the same for the NZ and Australian pilots?

If they are the same employer (from a company entity viewpoint) then Aus pilots may be able to be brought in. If it is deemed a separate employer in NZ then The Australian Pilots will be illegal labour and will find themselves in breach of NZ employment law.

Of course this would no doubt need to be proven in court and by the time it is resolved the "foreign" labour will have had the desired effect to the detriment of the VANZ pilots.

Maybe they could take wide combs with them.

If the argument was going to hold up, NZALPA would surely have tried it already in New Zealand. Case and point, in the past when one part of the Air New Zealand group has been having industrial action, others elements of the group have covered with the pilot's (even if they sympathise) effectively having no recourse to refuse work if it complies with their own industrial agreement. The fact a combined seniority list exists now would in my opinion only further enhance Virgin's case.

The Trans Tasman element adds something to it but 97(3)(a)(b)(c) reads like this to me with the 'Virgin group' being the employer.
(a) All pilots currently employed by the Virgin group.
(b) Have not been employed principally because they worked there before.
(c) With sufficient notice and complying with all relevant agreements, do VA pilot's have the right to say no?
I agree. You would likely find one lawyer who would agree with my take, another who would agree entirely with the counter argument and then who benefits? The QCs just get richer!

When the Jetstar NZ pilots filed a strike notice quite a bit of NZALPA money was spent on obtaining a legal opinion from a QC with regard to this exact scenario. The general theme of it was that if you can show that Aussie pilots were being imported to carry out work that would normally be flown by NZ crews then an injunction to stop this would likely be successful. The onus would be on Virgin NZ pilots though to prove what flights they crew or what percentage of their work is crewed by NZ pilots as opposed to AUS crew. It is highly complicated and the AUS crews are under NO obligation to turn down work to keep the flights going (except maybe morally), it would be entirely up to NZALPA and the Virgin NZ pilots to stop them.

It could get tricky for the Oz guys anyways as under what grounds can you legally refuse to go to work? They are already doing NZ branded flying (DPS/POM/NAN/HIR) so what's a few more sectors?

Unless there is a NZ court order stopping them I don't see how an Australian employed pilot could legally refuse to fly NZ and Pacific Sectors allocated to them.

Yep, thats what I mean. There is no LEGAL right to refuse the work for the Aussie blokes, the only thing that might stop someone from 'filling' in over in NZ may be a moral decision to make themselves unavailable.

That moral question in reality is pretty clear cut as it is almost impossible to stop yourself from being 'rostered' for the flying in question and if everyone called sick for it then they could drop themselves in 'it' for taking unauthorised industrial action.

I am hearing around the gossip channels though that the strike is not likely to go ahead as there is an 'improved' package on the table. Here's hoping. :ok:

If the current situation in NZ were in AU? I can guarantee there would be no suggestion of pilots crossing the line if requested by the company. And if just one posted that they may have no legal choice, the $h!t storm would start, name calling the whole lot, irrespective of his or her legal position!

How about we support the Kiwis in their desire to not be the lowest paid pilots in the region. Maybe some solidarity could help right now. I 99% sure it won't come to industrial action. VA and the pilot group will sort a compromise that is acceptable to both parties. JB is not the type to allow this type of stuff to develop.

Good luck to them, they have 100% of my support. For what it's worth, if I'm asked to operate on the Tasman or South Pacific as a result of action, I for one won't be compromising the process. URTI, sick, what ever it takes. :D:D

Good luck.

Thank you Voz.....

We appreciate your support.
Pretty sure that NZALPA will have clarified the necessary legal position to stop VAA pilots coming over and doing the flying,if its possible.
One of the union members have resigned,but that will probably be the only individual blowing complete cover.......last minute scab action never a good look.
Word is there is a substantial offer,meetings in the next few days.
Marvellous

Yes voz well done. I have friends in VANZ and there is NO WAY they would do this to us. Interesting to see when the shoe is on the other foot many seem to indicate they would work. That would totally undermine the goal and you would no longer have any support from VANZ should your need ever arise in the future. Think about the long game here, much better we are all together.

Good luck to all at VANZ (ex colleagues), hopefully the improved offer is substantial!

Waterwings, the air NZ strike situation was pilots employed by the same NZ company. VANZ employment is an NZ company with NZ aoc owned by Virgin. VAA is Aus employment on aus aoc.
This and the air NZ strike are two different situations, as is the jetstar one as they have Aus aoc and cross crew with NZ/oz guys. VANZ don't.
I believe alpa and the VANZ negotiators have already looked into this and know it would be illegal.

Analogy maybe?

Years ago a chap I know had a vey successful automotive business. Put everything in your wife's name was the advice from the accountant. Guess how that turned out!

Having the two companies separate may have given DJ the perceived advantage of keeping the IR situation local (bit like VAI), and in this way divide/conquer etc.., when the NZ boys and girls finally had a gut full, difficult now for them to step in and fill the breach!

Smartest people in the room, yeah right!

Make sure the deal is reasonable guys. You may just have them by the B@lls!

The message in this is that in serious industrial negotiations you have to be prepared to go to the brink and stare the other side down. The Kiwi's have shown that they have the cajones to do this. This does not mean they are militant or extremist, it means they believed that what they are asking for is worth fighting for. That's what solidarity will get you.

So how do VANZ conditions currently compare to jetstar NZ?

The company asks for your medical certificate what then?

When it comes to unions and/or industrial action Airlines play hard ball.
Make sure you have everything sorted out before you start risking your own job.

Personally the unions should be taking the lead here and sort it out beforehand what position the Australian pilots should be taking before people are called up.

Neville, I like the rest of the AU based crews get 7 or so URTI a year, no medical cert required. 7 days multiplied by 1300 VAA crew compared to the 140 or so VANZ crew, equals a whole load of disruption, which funny enough is the goal if negotiations break down. Once again, I'll do what I can to insure the kiwis get a fair go.