I don't know your EBA but I would hazard a guess that the company would reserve the right to ask for bonafides if required. If they thought there was industrial action afoot they would be calling for everyones medical certificate.

As I said, the unions need to step into this if required, not up to individual pilots.

I would like to hear the positions of NZALPA as well as the relevant Australian pilots' unions.

The purpose of a strike is to disrupt operations but not too much, the pilots want to have jobs to come back to afterwards, with a noticeable hit to the Company's bottom line.

VANZ pilots may well support some operations carried out by VAA aircraft and crew. The company will get the headache, and hit to the hip pocket nerve, but it would minimise unnecessary damage to the customers and the brand long term. VAA only has the capacity to cover a little of VANZ's flying anyway, only with VH- reg aircraft. Besides which, few (no) VAA crew would be current on RAR, ZQN, WLG, VLI.

Until I hear NZALPA's blessing I won't be seen east of Cape Byron.

Voz1

Maybe knowing your EBA is the first step because I am pretty sure the company does and it WILL use ALL the provisions of the EBA if this disruption of yours eventuates.
And some of the best advice you will hear all day

Most VANZ pilots understand the bind VAA pilots would find themselves in if asked to cover some VANZ flying. Legally they couldn't refuse and most would understand that its not worth risking your job over what could be deemed unlawful industrial action. VAA covering some VANZ as has been pointed out would have the desired effect, hurting the company and not the larger travelling public. The same could be said for Air NZ.

Just don't forget about it if the boot gets put on the other foot.

Its the thought that counts though. :ok:

Firstly let me say, I hope the NZ guys/gals get everything they are fighting for.
They deserve to get equal conditions to those of their colleagues on this side of the water.

In saying that, be warned. This is not 89. There is very very little group solidarity in this day in age of aviation when it comes to job risk/security. There may be the odd person who will go sick or use an URTI etc. however, 99% of VAA crew if rostered to do a VA pacific flight to an island WILL do it.
They will not risk their job. I am certain of that. So don't be fooled. Do whatever you have to but do it with your eyes wide open. Good Luck.

You can just about forget VAA operating cover flights, they can barely cover their own schedule. Then there are only certain routes they can operate (without changes that would take time to insurances etc). So on the day, they may be able to run a NAN service (if they can crew it, and remember they need to fly with 2 sets of cabin crew on any service over 9:45 block time). Air NZ would also only be able to cover maybe a Tasman or two tops. The alliance only extends to trans-Tasman so any island flying would be full charter, and if left to the last minute, would be very difficult to arrange.

Three words:

Air New Zealand.

Seems obvious to me.

Ad Astra,

Would you fly the struck work ?

I found the second paragraph surprising and a little sad. I'd be interested to find out the unions stance on the matter. Best wishes to the VAA and VNZ pilots.

I disagree with your opinion regarding solidarity. Spirit Airlines strike about 3 years ago. Only 2 pilots flew the struck work.


Falcon Air F/O SCAB identified !!! - Page 4 - Airline Pilot Central Forums

JPJP

Whether I or anyone else in VAA, Jetstar, Qantas, Air New Zealand or any of the other carriers fly their routes will be up to the individual and their individual circumstances.

I would ask the same question of you and whether you would fly or tell the company that you are not going to comply with their directions due to moral reasons if that was your opinion.

Perhaps the solution of calling in sick placates ones concience very nicely but if it came down to the crunch and it was the difference between driving home to tell ones family that you have been stood down without pay ufn due to supporting the industrial action of another union in another country or complying with the companies roster then I would be most interested to hear both your opinion and your wifes reaction should you choose to be honest with the company.

Perhaps sitting on the sidelines sipping ones coffee and decrying the sadness of the situation is a little easier than being involved.

I am sure the armchair experts will have a field day on this thread but it does seem that the most sensible and realistic posts are emanating from those that are actually in VAA and VNZ.

Perhaps that is a good thing!

Hear what you are saying ad Astra but you must also accept then VANZ doing Vaa work if rostered. Don't mind them doing some domestic sectors? Would work well for the company as would save positioning crew. I suspect this would not go down well so it's s but hypocritical saying vaa can do it.

Correct.

A VNZ pilot being rostered to do domestic flying is doing his job.
This has occurred before and it will again and I do not recall any issues amongst VAA crew with VNZ crew carrying out their duties.

Would we have a problem in the future with any individual doing his job again ....absolutely not

Would we like it? No

But there is the challenge for all of us as we do have a common goal to acheive comparable wages and conditions for all crew.

Will they be identical, I doubt it, but we all acknowledge that there is a lot of room for improvement.

When they did the dom flying they ok'ed it with our unions first. Had the unions said no they wouldn't have done it.

The processes on each side of the ditch may have differed but I do recall that we were TOLD that VNZ crews would be doing some (limited) flying.

I think the realists within the VAA pilot groups acknowledged that it WAS going to happen and our approval was not necessarily going to be SOUGHT or NEEDED.

If you were waiting for approval to be declined by the Unions over here you would have been waiting a long time.

WE have the SAME problems!

You're dreamin'

That was just JB at his finest making the unions feel important. It was always going to happen, it was just a matter of what JB had to offer to get support. As it turned out....... nothing.

VANZ doing AU domestic was as a result of the QF down tools event in 2012 was it not? From memory VAA needed extra aircraft and seats fast, like tomorrow.
The other which is hypothetical is now being proposed to counter industrial action in another country!

Let's face it 2 totally different examples. One is helping the company take advantage of an opertunity, the other is helping the company take advantage of a underpaid pilot group.

Yes ad-astra went back a had a read. I have many options available to me before I am forced to cross the line. Maybe you don't, that's your call.

Ad Astra,

I'm not sure sure wether I'd call myself an armchair expert, nor would I call myself an expert in this field. Thankfully. I've never held a union position. I have unfortunately been involved in a strike vote and walked an informational picket line. It's an ugly situation and one that I hope neither you or your fellow pilots have to be involved with.

To answer your question - I decided a long time ago that I'd never cross a picket line and I would never fly struck work. I know that my union would support this view. The vital part is the fact that my fellow pilots feel the same way. There are still many flight decks in this country that hold a scab list. They still get used.

In my opinion, there is a difference between the two situations that you referenced;

a) VAA or VANZ flying Qantas passengers is not seen as crossing the line. Unions believe that type of action actually helps, as it theoretically puts pressure on the management of the struck company by ceding market share temporarily.

b) VAA pilots flying VANZ routes would be crossing the line. They have the same upper management, and it weakens whatever leverage is perceived by VANZ pilots. You all work for the same people. The geography or subsidiary argument is irrelevant in my humble opinion.

All of this is thankfully theoretical. You made two excellent points; the law, and the directives from your individual union leadership. I understand that you are perhaps an examiner or a check airmen ? This also further complicates the issue.


Excuse the long reply. Best of luck.

disagree with your point b.

if employees of another mob are legally reqd to work with no legal alternative that is not "crossing the line"

if that employee offers to work on his day off for his own advantage to cover the work of others then thats a different story.

So VAA won't mind if VANZ flys if they have a dispute. Or qf don't mind if jet connect of jq do their flying. I find that extremely hard to believe.

Can't be hypocritical about this, it has to work both ways.

if the law that applies to you compels you to work then so be it.

doesnt mean anyone enjoys it

dont like it get the law changed

"Or QF don't mind if Jet Connect or JQ do their flying" You been freeze dried or doing hard time for the past 10 years???????

astinapilot

I think you are confusing the issue of reality versus preference.

The reality of the situation is that if VAA found themselves in an industrial dispute of such magnitude that flights were being cancelled then most certainly VAA pilots would expect the company to use any and all resources to keep the airline operating.

That would most certainly include VANZ assets.

The preference of VAA crews in such a dispute would be for VANZ to be kept out of the turmoil.

No hypocrisy at all.

That reality should be of prime considration to any of the unions on either side of the ditch no matter what colour their tail is when they are in dispute with an airline management.

If any pilot believes that we hold the industrial upper hand and can dictate how a dispute unfolds has missed Day One of Industrial Relations 101

They have you very well conditioned.

Let's use another example - During the Spirit strike in 2010; Falcon Air was hired by Spirit to fly its routes. Using Spirit call signs no less. Out of all of the flights Falcon Air tried to put in the air, they were only able to find crew for one.

I'm hearing that vanz pilot have reached an agreement but the cabin crew are going to strike instead??? Or is that just rumours?

I hear vaa crew are covering tiger flying at the moment too, due to tiger pilot shortages?

Hey JPJP,
I get what youre saying but the industrial situation here is very different to the USA.
Cheers and good luck to all involved, its a nasty business that no one wants in on but sometimes...

So anyone got an update? What is the latest?