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-   -   BIG Announcement coming from QF? (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/476975-big-announcement-coming-qf.html)

teresa green 22nd Feb 2012 01:39

Had four uncles in the 8th division, all ended up in Changi, all over 6ft none over 60k when they got back home. Never really recovered. Mate, we would fight till the last Aussie was standing, simple as that and we won't be having a civil war, but right now we are considering a coup.

QF94 22nd Feb 2012 01:52

Cap'n,

Let's look at what has accompanied "refugees" over the last 40 years.
  1. Home inavasions
  2. Gang warfare (not talking traditional bikies, as they kept their grievances between themselves)
  3. Drive-by shootings
  4. Arms deals
  5. Drug dealing
Yes, there has always been crime in Australia. That's what it was founded on. Convicts sent as far away as possible to form a colony, but the amount and blatant disregard for the laws and the police these "refugees" have is reprehensible.

I'm in Sydney, and there is not a day that goes by that you don't hear about one of the abovementioned points. The origins of these people are either "Mediterranean/Middle Eastern, Asian or Islander. Where are most of the "refugees" coming from? The aforementioned origins. When they get here, and they don't like the conditions, they burn down the detention centre. Why? Because they know that the government and the courts are pi$$ weak. Would these same people have dared to do anything like that in their home country? Not likely, nor should they.

When they arrive on our shores, as illegally as they do, they should not only be kissing the soil of this country, but also our backsides for reaching here and forcing us to give them assylum.

It seems to be only a small percentage of people fleeing thier countries of origin. The masses must seem to think it's still OK to stay. Those fleeing must have done something for the government or military to want them so bad.

But if you feel so strongly about having them here, maybe you should put up a welcome sign on your front lawn or apartment door and give them the refuge they seek. Not all Australians want other countries waste products. We neither have the finances or means to accommodate them, especially when so many of our own are being forced out of work because that same work is going to these countries that these people are fleeing.

unseen 22nd Feb 2012 02:22

What are you on about?
 
Sorry, must be me, I thought I was on PPRuNe but somehow I have ended up on rightwing.nuts.org.

So it was ok to start Australia with another countries 'waste products' as you so eloquently put it but not anymore?

Bikie gang violence and crime are ok because they usually just keep it amongst themselves? Ever heard of Milperra? Are they harshly/wrongly accused of major drug distribution?

Wow.

Cant wait to see this in print!

QF94 22nd Feb 2012 02:29


Sorry, must be me, I thought I was on PPRuNe but somehow I have ended up on rightwing.nuts.org.
No, but it looks like you're starting up looneygreenlabor.com.au

It could go on forever about splitting hairs and the number of crimes committed. NO crime is acceptable. Neither is having a gun held to one's head and forcing down our throats that we have to take people we simply can't take or afford to take. Maybe you and captain tipples should start your own half-way house and take on all the refugees you can accommodate and releive the rest of the Australian community of the tax burden in the process.

Unseen, maybe you should remain that way.

Capt Claret 22nd Feb 2012 02:48


But if you feel so strongly about having them here, maybe you should put up a welcome sign on your front lawn or apartment door
Perhaps I can go one better. My kids are grown but half Arabic on their mother's side. All of their grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, and friends are law abiding responsible citizens. Not a murderer or criminal amongst them.

However, I can't say as much for my Anglo heritages family. I have a brother possibly facing a significant gaol term and he won't be the only white Australian in gaol.

Empathy is obviously not your strong suit. Perhaps you'll be lucky enough, by fluke of birth or whatever causes you to live here, not to be in need of empathy yourself.

Taildragger67 22nd Feb 2012 03:03

QF94,

I'll start by saying that I generally respect your posts. Second, personally I have no axe to grind here - there are good and bad points re refugees and immigration more generally.

However I respectfully submit that a few of your points here are simply incorrect and cannot stand unchallenged.

1.


Let's look at what has accompanied "refugees" over the last 40 years.

Home inavasions
Gang warfare (not talking traditional bikies, as they kept their grievances between themselves)
Drive-by shootings
Arms deals
Drug dealing
It does not follow that only refugees have brought these blights. I would suggest that the vast majority of refugees (and immigrants) are law-abiding (citizens, as many become) who are simply seeking to provide for their families and educate their kids.

However, I would also suggest that many of the perpetrators of the above are not refugees, but 'legal' immigrants - plus a good smattering of Aussies of more Northern European extraction:

1. Terry Clark (Mr Asia) was a (white Anglo-Saxon) Kiwi;
2. Bikie gangs have also shown to be heavily invovled in the drug trade;
3. As for bikie gangs keeping things between themselves, all I'll say is "Viking Tavern" and "Qantas Sydney domestic terminal";
4. Very few (if any) "Islanders", for example, come to Australia as refugees.

2.


When they arrive on our shores, as illegally as they do, they should not only be kissing the soil of this country, but also our backsides for reaching here and forcing us to give them assylum.
I think most do - right from those who came on various sailing ships (though they weren't called 'refugees' then), to the hundreds of thousands who came post-1945, to the Viets and Cambodians. Sure, some don't, but you're unfairly tarring an innocent majority.

3.

It seems to be only a small percentage of people fleeing thier countries of origin. The masses must seem to think it's still OK to stay. Those fleeing must have done something for the government or military to want them so bad.
"The masses" might not have the wherewithall to be able to fund an escape, or perhaps the courage to risk life & limb on a perilous journey. Or, maybe they are members of the "right" ethnic or linguistic group in their country and therefore feel no need to leave.

On the other hand, "those fleeing" may have simply wanted to express their opinion; maybe vote for their government :eek:; or perhaps their crime / thing they "must have done" was to have been born with the wrong skin / surname / religion.

Perhaps next time you get a cappuccino from that long-established Italian cafe, or go to the local green-grocer run by Con or Costas, or a Viet take-away that's been there for 20 years, you might like to take a moment and ask what motivated the proprietor to up-sticks and come to God's own country all those years ago.

"Post hoc, ergo propter hoc" doesn't really work.

whatever6719 22nd Feb 2012 03:04

Well said!!

greenslopes 22nd Feb 2012 03:27

Good reply taildragger.

QF94 22nd Feb 2012 04:06

Taildragger,

As I mentioned earlier. NO CRIME is acceptable, and that all breeds and races have their fair share.

What I am also saying and being branded as a redneck racist for it, is that we can't keep taking people from another country that have no identification on them, apart from the thousands of dollars they bring with them to get here, and then expect to put them in the community and hope to Christ they assimilate.

Let's go back a few years to the ugliest day in Australia's recent history. I think we all remember Cronulla. The day the flag wearing, alcohol filled goons went crazy and rioted. Police were in there full swing against them and hammering anyone wearing a flag. The very next night, in Lakemba, when the "allah" chanting mob were making their own noise about revenge and then let loose in Woolooware and the eastern suburbs smashing cars and beating innocent "Aussies" to a pulp because they were Aussies, where were the police and bleeding hearts then?

Enough is enough. Let's control what's in our midst now. Not bringing more in hoping they'll abide and assimilate.

Let's look at "race specific" areas of Sydney. They do exist and you're fooling yourself if you think they don't.

Cabramatta - Vietnamese/Laotian - through the 80's and 90's was the drug capital and murder capital of Australia. Even the first political assassination of an Australian politician took place there. Mr John Newman (Phong Ngo accused of murder). Not like that before them.

Bankstown/Lakemba/Belmore - Arabic/Islanders - Drugs, arms dealings shootings. Not like that before them.

The above two examples are just the tip of the iceberg, and this is just in Sydney.

Am I racist? Not at all.
Am I of Anglo descent? Nope!
Am I Australian born? Yep!
Am I nationalist? You bet!
Do I want to protect the way of life I grew up with? You bet!
Do I want my kids to grow up with that same type of life? You bet!
Do I want to live in a safe environment where there is no threat to me or my family walking down the street? You bet!
Do I want to know that illegals are processed and cleared of any past crimes before being released into my community? You bet!
Are all immigrants bad? Not at all.
Are all immigrants good? Not at all.
Should all immigrants be given free passage to Australia without identification and due process and not have to follow our laws? Not at all.

You can think of me as a redneck, right wing nut, but when when one of these shows comes to a town near you and you see up close and personal what "refugees" are capable of, you may change your view.

aussie027 22nd Feb 2012 04:23

I"m not sure how this thread got to all these posts about WW 2 etc on this page but I will add to it by saying a large scale and successful invasion of Australia by Japan in WW 2 would have been militarily and logistically impossible. Period.

If they had succeeded in capturing all of New Guinea They may have later been able to put relatively small numbers of troops ashore in a few select places on the northern coasts maybe to try and attack /capture Darwin for eg, it being the largest "city" north of Brisbane at that time or far north Qld coast but that would have been it.
The biggest result of any localized battles, regardless of outcome on a tactical level would have been one of widespread "fear and panic" amongst the overall Aust population that a "Jap invasion" had indeed begun due to the widespread lack of reliable "news" and intel in those days and the general British prejudice and superior attitude to the capabilities of the Japanese of the period as was seen after Pearl Harbour and subsequent Japanese invasion of SE Asia and the fall of Singapore and then all of Indo etc.

If anything had occured and Australia had fought fiercely as they did throughout the war as opposed to just finally surrendering as the British did in Singapore and taking 1000s of Aussies with them thanks to being outsmarted tactically by the Japenese attack force then the Japs could never have succeeded.

gobbledock 22nd Feb 2012 04:30

The aforementioned posts are quite interesting across a broad range of topics, however are we forgetting the carnage and warfare that corporate greed/big business/crooked Government officials are unleashing in Australia without barely a mention? These pathetic parasites are causing us untold pain and suffering along with devaluing our lifestyle for the benefit of a tiny minority.
Sure, Indonesia could invade us, Kim Jong Un could extend the range of his Nukes or some other Nupty could unleash biological warfare on us in the form of a disease that attacks our genitals and makes them rot and fall off, but our own people as mentioned above are single handedly f*cking this once great Nation, all we do is bend over and take it while allowing these turds to take advantage of us for their own greed.
Currently the Nation is running itself into a giant hole while a bunch of d#ckheads who are entrusted with our way of life fight out their ego's and personal vandetta's and compare sausage length, and at what price/expense?? The citizens, US! Seriously, it is an absolute disgrace. It must be time for the Citizens to take up arms and fight back so to speak?

QF94 22nd Feb 2012 04:51


The aforementioned posts are quite interesting across a broad range of topics, however are we forgetting the carnage and warfare that corporate greed/big business/crooked Government officials are unleashing in Australia without barely a mention? These pathetic parasites are causing us untold pain and suffering along with devaluing our lifestyle for the benefit of a tiny minority.
Sure, Indonesia could invade us, Kim Jong Un could extend the range of his Nukes or some other Nupty could unleash biological warfare on us in the form of a disease that attacks our genitals and makes them rot and fall off, but our own people as mentioned above are single handedly f*cking this once great Nation, all we do is bend over and take it while allowing these turds to take advantage of us for their own greed.
Currently the Nation is running itself into a giant hole while a bunch of d#ckheads who are entrusted with our way of life fight out their ego's and personal vandetta's and compare sausage length, and at what price/expense?? The citizens, US! Seriously, it is an absolute disgrace. It must be time for the Citizens to take up arms and fight back so to speak?
gobbledock, I wholeheartedly agree. We, as a nation are being screwed while we have bleeding hearts wanting to show empathy to some illegals invading our borders and draining our resources. Let's have empathy for all the workers that have, or are about to lose their jobs and livelihoods. Look after your own before you look after others. If we don't look out for ourselves, no one else will, especially the corporates or the government.

Falling Leaf 22nd Feb 2012 04:57

Came on here to read about developments post the QF announcement. The magnitude of the thread drift only strengthens my belief that there are hardly any professional pilots on this forum anymore - pilots who actually work in the industry we are discussing and know what is going on. Seems the whole thing has been hijacked by people who should be on other forums, spectators balcony etc. This observation from most of the threads on this forum. PPrune aint what it used to be....:*

Taildragger67 22nd Feb 2012 05:00

QF94,

Just a quick one as I have a few things to do; I'll edit longer, later.

But one point - Newman wasn't the first political hit in Aust - a Turkish consul-general was assassinated in Sydney's east some years earlier and I'm sure there were other 'hits' in earlier years.

For the record, I do not think you're a racist / redneck, etc. I just think your arguments are unsupported by the evidence you present.

botero 22nd Feb 2012 05:02

Any chance that we can discuss announcements from Qantas on this thread?

teresa green 22nd Feb 2012 05:48

Our Kev has just dropped a clanga, and has basically just stuffed the ranga, Eh, mods this certainly effects the airlines, the ranga being a mate of Joyce's if you get my drift. So how does Abbott feel about QF? It has suddenly become very important.:D

Angle of Attack 22nd Feb 2012 05:50

DEC just anounced from Emirates, this will get interesting for the idiot managers at QF, standby for an exodus! This will play out over a few months but I am betting my middle finger it will cause problems for QF AND Jetstar!

BrissySparkyCoit 22nd Feb 2012 05:53

Back to discussion about the announcement and the outcomes of meetings.... well we can't discuss anything! Mrs Sue B. sent an email to AME unions today in "disappointment" at their notice to members which gave a few very basic and obvious facts.

We must all hold tight for 8 weeks and are not allowed to know what's being discussed?

QF94, agree with all you say! One of the reasons I left Sydney.

empire4 22nd Feb 2012 06:26

A Singapore National EIR Lame, A330,B777, B744 with 6 (yes SIX) kids has just been granted PR from the Australian Government! I can not believe what a joke it is! I heard this from the horses mouth.

this has to be stopped!

the rim 22nd Feb 2012 06:33

back to the topic
 
BSC well done in getting back to the topic....all good reading but it is about the job redundo's and movement....just read the ALAEA notice poor guys in mel MOC and the proff's engineers hope they move the ones around that want to move otherwise lots of drama......a little closer to home FOUR from bne int/dom....wow will be a LOT of unhappy campers my guess about twenty plus from both sides want out...hope all ends well......the rim

DrPepz 22nd Feb 2012 07:13

empire4: I know Aussie families with many kids who were granted PR by Singapore. Many Australians work in SIAEC as LAMES. Should I tell them to go home as well?

BrissySparkyCoit 22nd Feb 2012 07:21

Sorry, I'd love to share more info but they have threatened to call off the consultation process and make the decision without any union input if we dare speak of what is discussed at the meetings.... even the damn plain obvious!

That and the fact I don't want to get grilled in an interview again :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: :mad::mad::mad:

Bagus 22nd Feb 2012 11:10

Latest maintenance plan out,only till mid april

Wellwellwell 22nd Feb 2012 12:56

Brissy.......stop talking crap

BrissySparkyCoit 22nd Feb 2012 20:22

Don't shoot the messenger.

Jethro Gibbs 22nd Feb 2012 23:44

According to the Geelong Advertiser today SP of ALAEA talking up Avalon for A380 maintenance and Qantas says wont happen just another story.

drop bear ten 23rd Feb 2012 00:20

Empire4,

A well educated Singaporean with 6 kids who have grown up in a disciplined society with one of the best education systems in the world.

I accept your concerns, however they will contribute to Australia far more than much of the scum that has invaded our shores in the past decades. Welcome them with open arms because they don't come much better than that!:)

another superlame 23rd Feb 2012 02:22

When QF announced back in August they were putting off engineers, Mr Borghetti offered to take them on over in Virgin Aus.
Is this still going to happen?

Unless I have missed something in the media this generous and supposedly genuine offer has not been mentioned since August.

QF94 23rd Feb 2012 02:27


When QF announced back in August they were putting off engineers, Mr Borghetti offered to take them on over in Virgin Aus.
Is this still going to happen?

Unless I have missed something in the media this generous and supposedly genuine offer has not been mentioned since August.
asl, you will most probably have more chance of going over to J* and getting a job there. If you're in the market that is.

At this stage, as per correspondence yesterday, it looks like only 10 LAME's and 2 AME's in S.I.T. and 30 across the ports in line maintenance. If you're not looking at going yet, I think you're safe enough to stay. At this point in time that is, until the next round of shedding "excess employees".

another superlame 23rd Feb 2012 02:34

The numbers total 100 or there abouts
12 LAME from SIT
35 LAME from Base
23 AME from Base
2 AME from SIT
These are due to aircraft retirements

Plus 30 more LAMEs from Domestic as follows
12 SDT
10 MDT
4 ADL
4 BNE
These 30 domestic LAMEs are due to MoD.

But it still leaves the question unanswered about Virgin offering employment to those QF engineers who are made redundant.

QF94 23rd Feb 2012 02:56

The one who can answer that question is Virgin HR. Give them a call and have your question answered.

gobbledock 23rd Feb 2012 03:57

Step right up, read all about it!!
 
While we are on the subject of 'Big Announcements' I am still awaiting the following to be announced as part of some future improvement and return to profitabilty plan for the Big Roo:

Dear All,

Please see attached the 10 point plan that QF has undertaken effective immediately in an effort to return the airline to its' former glory as a profitable and reputable airline known for customer service, relabilty and safety;

1) Employment terms - Effective immediately QF executive management and board members have had their employment contracts terminated. For the interim a small group of management shall remain at the helm on reduced salaries paired with the QF Group's actual performance, profitability and overall value. Remuneration will be based upon global averages commensurate within the airline industry.

2) Bonuses - Effective immediately management bonuses have been removed. No bonus shall be reinstated until shareholder dividends have been paid out for a minimum of 2 consecutive years. Those potential bonuses will be capped and will have to be approved by an internal working group of senior frontline staff chosen or voted for by their peers.

3) Accoutability - Effective immediately all senior executives shall be held accountable for occurences within the QF Group that affect safety, financial viabilty, reputation and service.
For example any instance of unsafe practise leading to injury, price fixing, grounding, fines, regulatory action or legal recourse shall be attributed to the individual executive managers portfolio and that manager shall be held accountable.

4) Strategy and Direction - An internal working group has been put together comprising of Pilots, Engineers, Finance, Operations and Customer Service staff. Minimum requirement for these positions is 15 years service and all positions will be transparently voted for by colleagues and peers. This group will make up part of the strategy and direction for the airline and their input will be taken into account on each and every decision that affects the airline, whether it be fleet type acqusitions, the adding or reduction of ports, financial investments, outsourcing and future planning. No executive is permitted to act like a rogue and make decisions without consulting this working group of actual technical experts.

5) Aircraft and Maintenance overhaul - Effective immediately the aforementioned operational group shall review all aircraft types currently operated as well as review all maintenance facilities and contracts with a view to improving the business. Large changes to the current dismal structure are expected to be introduced within 30 days.

6) Share structure - Effective immediately and to be completed within 90 days no executive manager or management group collective will be permitted to own company shares, in the interest of transparency.
This will ensure that external shareholders including mum and dad investors will have an even authority when voting on executive remuneration packages. No longer will 'numbers stacking' be viewed as ethical, fair or reasonable. If an executive is underperforming as has been the case now for 3 years they shall be 'let go' in the interest of the airlines longevity and viability. In other words no single rogue has sole access to pushing the nuclear button and holding the launch key at the same time.

7) Consultants - Effective immediately no external organisation by way of a consultancy firm, service provider, agency or any other enterprise that is paid a sum of money by QF Group can have links to any QF individual employee including members of the Board or executive management team, their families or past/present managers. All proposed contracts will be examined and signed off on by members of the operational technical working group, as voted/approved by their peers.

8) Public relations - Effective immediately media statements and public relation exercises will only be undertaken by experienced PR staff. An immediate overhaul and removal of the current dpeartment has been agreed upon. QF will commit itself to honest, factual, non-spin reporting in an effort to regain credibility and trust of the public, passengers and staff.

9) Boeing 777 - Effective immediately QF commits to purchasing an undisclosed amount of Boeing 777's for it's operation and ridding the Group of old third wolrd workhorses passed their use by date.

10) Accounting - A process of honest transparent accounting practises between individual facets of the QF Group takes effect immediately. Monies will no longer be shuffled along unmarked corridors in an attempt to 'massage' the truth. Transparent and clear practise is now integral to the airlines ability to manage profit and loss and also allow the shareholder to see accurately what the status of their investment actually is.

Yours sincerely,
The top layer
This is only phase 1 of returning the Roo back from stew.

QF94 23rd Feb 2012 04:48

gobbledock,

As great as that sounds, the Roo will be in the stew for a long time, IF it ever gets out of it. The announcements last week of "restructuring" accelerated the downsizing of QANTAS mainline, particularly the international arm. With international routes being eroded and aircraft numbers diminishing, it won't be long before QANTAS is just a name, being presided over by a few people, namely the dirty dozen, that suck it dry.

As each aircraft leaves these shores for the last time, that's another nail in the coffin for QANTAS as we know it.

TIMA9X 23rd Feb 2012 06:09

Back on track yet? Ben Sandilands is and right on the money.
 
Virgin Australia piles leadership pressure on Qantas | Plane Talking


Virgin Australia, Qantas, and its leadership crisis

February 23, 2012 – 4:55 pm, by Ben Sandilands

Virgin Australia did its bit today to make news by adding to leadership tensions at Qantas.
Virgin Australia’s CEO and ex Qantas senior executive John Borghetti delivered astonishing first half year results, in which the smaller airline made more by way of statutory net profits after tax of $51.8 million than the entire Qantas group, which made only $42 million by the same measure in its results to 31 December as announced a week ago today.

Its tiny international operation made $35 million EBIT, compared to claims by Qantas CEO Alan Joyce that his group’s far larger Qantas long haul operation continues to lose more than $200 million a year, and unlike Qantas, Virgin Australia’s loyalty scheme earnings contributed comparatively little to the overall result, which was based overwhelmingly on profitably flying people rather than selling halo points to third parties like grocery chains or hotels.
If that wasn’t bad enough for Qantas, Borghetti also announced a plan to split the company into a domestic Virgin Australia Holdings company and a new unlisted Virgin Australian International Holdings unit with a view to greatly increasing investment in the domestic operations where both Qantas/Jetstar and its major competitor make most of their money.

The complex split plan, in which existing shareholders are given shares in the new unlisted international company by way of an in specie dividend, has a rather simple but unstated objective, which is to facilitate any desire by Etihad Airways or other interested foreign airline or institutional investor to buy their way into the share register as significant and rich equity partners who will help fund a major assault on the Qantas Cityflyer domestic trunk routes as well as grow the connecting traffic Virgin Australia is bringing to Etihad’s hub at Abu Dhabi.

This will require FIRB approval, and it might well be fought tooth and nail by Qantas, but it potentially allows an already profitable challenger airline group to fund ambitious expansion plans.

For Qantas, the pressure points are obvious. Joyce is being outflanked where it hurts, and has a poorly articulated Asia savior plan for a part owned premium carrier that is somehow going to fund the recapitalization of a shrinking and loss making long haul Qantas operation with profits from a venture that will be substantially owned by Jetstar’s most potent Asian competitor, Air Asia and based in Kuala Lumpur, a centre from which it will compete with the existing Qantas investment in Singapore as a combined Qantas/Jetstar hub.

Investor doubts about the rationality and practicability of the Joyce plan, in its various iterations, and their inherent absurdities and conflicts are growing by the day, including the Qantas CEO’s guidance a week ago today that he now wanted it to be ‘capital light ’ with a fleet that Qantas paid for in the smallest possible measure.

The ‘hello Asia, we want a free ride to take your business away’ message is not going down well, either in Asia, or in Australia.
Borghetti said Virgin Australia was committed to keeping up the competitive pressure on Qantas domestic business class and full fare services with a growing investment in Australian based jobs, including lifting its heavy maintenance work to more than 50% based in Australia rather than offshore.
He said there would be more and better lounges, more pride in its Australian identity, more involvement with its Australian employees, and better, newer, more efficient jets than Qantas could afford.

“We have forced business friendly fares down to the levels of 1996 on many routes in as little as a few months,” he said, which of course coincided with the period in which the Qantas industrial disputes and its locking out of its own customers caused major inconvenience and brand damage to the flying kangaroo.

Borghetti said the ‘Game Change’ program that had been expected to kick in during the second half of the financial year had produced results ahead of schedule.

He emphasised that Virgin Australia had not been in any discussions with Etihad Airways concerning its plans to split the group into domestic and international components that would have different shareholders, but that it had for some months been working with financial advisers on ways in which it could increase institutional investment in its major domestic business without breaching the foreign shareholder cap of 49% which was a condition for retaining its status as an Australian flag carrier in terms of securing and retaining overseas traffic rights.

In the wider perspective the differences in leadership at Qantas and Virgin Australia are becoming increasingly obvious. Virgin Australia has a work force in which many would be prepared to die in a ditch for the company, while Qantas appears to want many of its legacy work force to, if not die in a ditch, go away and allow it to replace them with younger, cheaper and less skilled pilots, several of which clearly should never, ever have been employed to sit in the right hand seat of Jetstar A320s given recent safety scares.

This is not to agree with some of the views pushed by protectionist or change resistant Qantas employees, but a criticism of the hostile attitude of management to labor in the Qantas group, and the lack of staff engagement that this causes, compared to the much stronger sense of joint purpose that has characterised Virgin Australia and its Virgin Blue predecessor from day one.
The Virgin story in Australia isn’t one of unalloyed management-labor harmony and bliss, but its has been, comparatively speaking, far more constructive and effective, and it shows very favorably in its service delivery and commitment to being Australian, or if you wish, true blue.
It’s a difference which is a potent factor, as acknowledged by Borghetti today, in a profit result which hasn’t slayed a giant, but has kicked it hard in the … shins.
An earlier similar report appeared in the Crikey Daily Mail.

Sort of makes AJ's announcement look very weak indeed... completely full of holes... we knew it was bad but not this bad now JB has announced his results... doesn't say much about our financial journalist in the mainstream media.. be interesting to see if they pick up on this result and do the comparison with the numbers....

QF94 23rd Feb 2012 08:11


Its tiny international operation made $35 million EBIT, compared to claims by Qantas CEO Alan Joyce that his group’s far larger Qantas long haul operation continues to lose more than $200 million a year, and unlike Qantas, Virgin Australia’s loyalty scheme earnings contributed comparatively little to the overall result, which was based overwhelmingly on profitably flying people rather than selling halo points to third parties like grocery chains or hotels.
I've stated this on other postings and I'll state it here again. QANTAS International doesn't lose $200m a year on its operations. Passenger loads are around the 80%-85% on avaerage. Not bad for 18% of the flying population choosing to fly QANTAS. If J* wasn't being propped up by QANTAS and having its fuel and aircraft paid for by QANTAS, it certainly wouldn't be making a $140m profit. If mainline QANTAS wasn't shutdown for 48 hours last October or the dispute with its staff dragged on for so long, QANTAS's profits would have been closer to the $500m mark.


This is not to agree with some of the views pushed by protectionist or change resistant Qantas employees, but a criticism of the hostile attitude of management to labor in the Qantas group, and the lack of staff engagement that this causes, compared to the much stronger sense of joint purpose that has characterised Virgin Australia and its Virgin Blue predecessor from day one.
"Protectionist or change resistant Qantas employees"? Over the last 20 years I have seen many changes within QANTAS. We are "change resistant" because we question the "strategy" or need for change when there is no clear agenda as to why or how it's going to be implemented, and to what benefit. When we finally have those changes explained, that's when questions arise, because if we can't make sense of it, and the manager can't explain it to make sense of it, other than to say "we need to be more efficient and more competitive" then yes, we will resist change if it will be of no benefit to how we do our job or for the overall benefit of the company. When the changes are implemented, the number of amendments to those changes are unbelievable and we end up going back to the way we did things. Some things just don't change and shouldn't change.

As for staff engagement, well the only thing management engage with staff is constant conflict and constant threats to be more efficient or we will be out of business. Our only real competitor is the management of QANTAS, particularly the board.

TIMA9X 23rd Feb 2012 15:07

Capital light?
 

As for staff engagement, well the only thing management engage with staff is constant conflict and constant threats to be more efficient or we will be out of business.
Yeah, and hard to tell which is the Canberra CEO and the Qantas one calling the shots...




:)

mohikan 23rd Feb 2012 18:13

Virgins great interim result also highlights the ongoing role of consultants in Qantas's demise.

Oldmeadow had almost unlimited access to Dixon and reportedly has similar with Joyce. Interestingly, when his staff approached Borgetti to see if they could set up a similar deal with Virgin they were politely told to go away.

The new Qantas 'strategy' department is yet another example. Set up by Bain & Co, and manned by staff who have recently left that company, it has nearly 100 staff now, with more being hired every day. Reportedly salaries are good to very good in this new department.

In a lot of ways, Joyce cannot actually control much of what goes on in the company. Behoven to the ideological agenda of Clifford, and locked into massive long term deals with BCG, Bain & Co and Oldmeadow he has little choice but to go along with their 'vision' for the future of the airline.

I almost feel sorry for him.................

Sunfish 23rd Feb 2012 18:29

Mr. Sandilands gets it perfectly.

The obsessions of the Board and the Sydney push that tried to take Qantas private (The APA Boyz) are still driving the Qantas "strategy".

My guess is that Joyce will be the last to know he is finished. It will dawn on him only when Geoff Dixon stops ringing him and inviting him for a friendly drink and a chat.

Qantas is fighting the wrong battles at the wrong place and at the wrong time. It is counting on The Chairmans Lounge to get it out of trouble.

Oddly enough, if Rudd gets in, I would expect that Virgins plans will be given thumbs down by the FIRB - which is not an independent body and much given to political considerations in its decision making..

Cactusjack 24th Feb 2012 01:19

Origins of the QF Board Discovered!!!
 

Scientists find limbless amphibians
13:00 AEDT Thu Feb 23 2012

The limbless amphibians were found in India.

Scientists believe they have discovered a new type of limbless amphibian that looks like an earthworm in northeastern India.

The pink hairless creatures, named Chikilidae, are one of about six potentially new species belonging to a group of animals called caecilians, which represent an entirely new family of amphibians.
They were found by researchers who spent five years digging for caecilians in over 250 spots across northern India, National Geopgraphic reports
Researchers said they were surprised to find the females are very dedicated mothers, and go without food for nearly three months to protect their young.
"The mother is guarding the eggs for almost 95 days without eating anything — always the mother is with her eggs," University of Delhi amphibian biologist Sathyabhama Das Biju said.




QF94 24th Feb 2012 03:27


Researchers said they were surprised to find the females are very dedicated mothers, and go without food for nearly three months to protect their young.
This quality is certainly not shared by the QF board. What does the board go without while smashing the eggs?

If the board were compared with maggots, that would be more appropriate. Feeding and living off a dying/dead carcass.


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