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Qantas kicks another goal.
Surely this would be the last thing you'd want? Does the union have deep enough pockets for a protracted legal headache? Will the union come out un scathed during the Discovery?
As some of you are waking up to Qantas have clearly been plotting these union smashing tactics for some time it seems and are well prepared. Looks like they are working too. The general public are now viewing the unions as 'millitant' too, which can hardly help. When all of the fist pumping rhetoric and threats die down you have got a major court case on your hands. Can Qantas kick another goal? |
Maybe JST. They have the money, power and have used unbalanced laws to their advantage.
The senate inquiry and any conclusions may make the industrial battle more interesting. Arbitration takes into account the willingness of the parties to negotiate in good faith and current agreements amongst other factors. It wont be a one way battle and I hope not one of financial attrition. That should not be part of the law but sadly can often be so. |
The TWU need to tone it down a little and follow the lead of the Apia and lame's because they will get the public offside and all three will be tarred with the one brush.
This is exactly what has been happening so far. And it will not work. |
Being a FWA case the individual costs are borne by each party. AIPA can afford it. They are looking forward to discovery.
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Why would Tony Sheldon what to tone things down when his sole aim is to ensure his nest is well feathered and thus ensure he reaches his goal of entering politics at the highest position he can possibly achieve.... at the expence of the union members who pay their dues expecting representation of "their" cause, not Tony's.
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The union you would think would have their house in order? Qantas clearly have theirs sorted. You don't employ tactics like they have without clean hands.
Someone will receive a very public dacking it seems. I just hope it doesn't cost too many jobs. |
Hi guys,
How's the trolling going? If I may, you probably need to brush up on a few things The Subtle Art of Trolling Also, I think to be an effective troll, you need to include an element of truth in your posts. Things like The union you would think would have their house in order? Qantas clearly have theirs sorted. You don't employ tactics like they have without clean hands. The general public are now viewing the unions as 'millitant' too, which can hardly help. Now, go back and try again. PS I just hope it doesn't cost too many jobs. |
I just hope it doesn't cost too many jobs. |
Hi JST,
How's the trolling going? I think you might need to brush up a bit. Try and include some element of truth in your posts. Things like The general public are now viewing the unions as 'millitant' too, which can hardly help. The union you would think would have their house in order? Qantas clearly have theirs sorted. You don't employ tactics like they have without clean hands. PS I just hope it doesn't cost too many jobs. |
Just so there is no doubt, JST is a journo.
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As a professional in main stream media I have to tell you your views are and I'm sorry to be blunt, utter BS. Kremin, note carefully the "professional in the main stream media" - perhaps not a journo, but a spin doctor. I wonder if this professional is using a male pseudonym for reason? Do we have Olivia in the house? Its all about mis/dis-information & misdirection. |
It may be that JST
is one of the newly employed several media hacks who scan the net and write company friendly articles.:=
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I have my reasons for saying he is a journo. But no biggie.
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Surely this would be the last thing you'd want? Does the union have deep enough pockets for a protracted legal headache? Will the union come out un scathed during the Discovery? As some of you are waking up to Qantas have clearly been plotting these union smashing tactics for some time it seems and are well prepared. Looks like they are working too. The general public are now viewing the unions as 'millitant' too, which can hardly help. Can Qantas kick another goal?. Qantas makes hash of tweet campaign Alicia Wood November 22, 2011 - 1:51PM A hijacked hashtag is the latest PR disaster to hit Qantas. At midday, the Qantas PR team operating the @QantasAirways twitter account, sent out a call for luxury flying experiences. This came after months of negative publicity stemming from industrial disputes with three unions, that resulted in the grounding of the entire Qantas fleet on October 29. Advertisement: Story continues below The idea, it seems, was to reward a winning tweet with a Qantas first class gift pack. The prize for tweeting good things about the embattled airline was a pair of Qantas pyjamas, and a "luxury amenity kit". "To enter tell us 'What is your dream luxury inflight experience? (Be creative!) Answer must include #QantasLuxury." Within an hour, the hashtag was trending across the country, but the tweets were not quite what management expected. @GrogsGamut tweeted: "#QantasLuxury- when the passengers arrive before the couriers delivering the lockout notices do". @aptronym said: "Getting from A to B without the plane being grounded or an engine catching fire. #qantasluxury". And @the-aaron-smith said: "#qantasluxury is chartering a Greyhound bus and arriving at your destination days before your grounded Qantas flight". Social media expert James Griffin from SR7 said that by about 1pm, Australians were sending out 51 tweets a minute on the hashtag. The majority of these were tweets making fun of the idea of #qantasluxury. "Firstly, timing went completely out the window with this campaign," Mr Griffin said, referring to Qantas management walking away from negotiations with the Transport Workers Union and Australian and International Pilots Association yesterday. "First and foremost, there should have been further consideration by the social media team about the sensitivities of the day," he said. "This is a prime example of how consumers and the community can take control of a campaign or a brand through social media - evidenced by the speed and ferocity of tweets. "Consideration should have been given to what Qantas and consumers have been through in the past couple of months." Qantas has not responded to requests for comment. Read more: #QantasLuxury Twitter campaign backfires on Qantas |
Qantas:After The Dust Has Settled
The negotiations between Qantas and the three unions has been acrimonious But what of the relationship after arbitration is concluded?
The situation has soured to a point where redemption is seen by many as impossible. Simply working to rule or not going the extra yard will have a negative effect on the business.Sick leave will surely rise.Fuel burn rates will increase. Qantas may win the war but it will definitely lose rthe peace. The airline relies heavily on the goodwill of its employees.That goodwill is now non existent |
Maybe BB has a pair of QF First PJ's he could offer as the prize? :yuk:
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Qantas is finished without a Board spill and the removal of at least Joyce.
Qantas demonstrated that it puts profit before people by the grounding. It can't be trusted ever again without maximum effort to restore trust - starting with removal of the Board. |
Sunfish you are 110% correct. The question is when will the instos wake up and realise that if things dont change that $1.57 was a really good price and its all downhill from here. At next years AGM if these clowns are still running the airline what excuses will they wheel out. I know, its the unions!!!
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And which part of closing down the Rat as we know it escapes you gents ??? :ugh:
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At next years AGM if these clowns are still running the airline what excuses will they wheel out. I know, its the unions!!! |
Hi Sunfish, I dont agree AJ is just Clifford's and Strong's whore. its these guys who need removing they are bunch of greedy spineless arogant bast*ds . sack the board is the only way to go !
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You guys don't get it. The shareholders (the ones that matter anyway) are 100% behind these guys. It's not "joyce" or "clifford" or "the board". None of them would be there without major shareholder support. Who do you think elected Clifford to the board? The remuneration report vote was testament to that.
That's not to say that I am a fan of any of them. |
Major shareholders represent 20% of total shareholdings... therefore 20% hold the power over 80%, it just is not right and is not a true reflection of the majority will.. :yuk:
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And which part of closing down the Rat as we know it escapes you gents ??? I want it to happen can't wait in fact, Bring on the CR! If not I will walk and get a another good job, it's just that simple! The Board is gooooooonnnnnneeee! Just look at their last pathetic qantasluxury t w e e t, its almost embarrassing to realise they are so out of touch! Again can I request BRING IT! |
The more shares you hold, the more money you have invested in the company, the more risk you have taken, the more rights you should have in terms of voting. If reflective of the profile of the shareholdings, it's absolutely right that, for example, 20% of the shareholders hold 80% of the votes. Why should I, with my $1000 worth of shares, have the same vote as someone who owns $10m?
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Because the INSTITUTIONS which hold shares do not always act in the way the people with investments held by said institutions would wish them to.:*
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Oh, you must be talking about the fund managers who sat there fat dumb and stupid when the GFC hit the fan, did they advise us to put our super into cash, nah, "super investments have their up and downs, if you lose your money the whole world will, and you must be in it for the long haul". My reply when I was pulling the charred remains out was "all well and good but I would like to have something left to fight back with".
The whole money industry is smoke, mirrors & greed, period. Trolls need not reply. |
Hmmm, really. Who are these people? And where is your authority for the contention that their wishes are not being accommodated? Given your statement I assume you have intimate personal knowledge, so of course you would also be able to provide a proportional comparison of satisfaction versus dissatisfaction?
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Not many of you were complaining when one of those said INSTITUTIONS stood up and saved Qantas from the clutches of Private Equity.
Harden up and take the good with the bad. |
Metro, Qantas was saved because one of these genius' did not understand the date line!:rolleyes:
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Not many of you were complaining when one of those said INSTITUTIONS stood up and saved Qantas from the clutches of Private Equity. |
Back on the topic, assuming Alan's plan is not to completely gut and destory QANTAS (I grant you an assumption that may be totally erroneous), the company's pretty much screwed anyway.
The staff simply aren't listening anymore. They have no interest in what management has to say. The level of apathy is tragic and telling and bodes poorly for the future of the organistaion should it survive the current ructions. It's an insult to their skills anyway but many S/Os don't seem to be interested in getting a "sector" anymore. The attitude is simply, "Why should I bother when I won't get a promotion for 10 years if I'm lucky enough to have a job after arbitration?". An attitude that is - sadly - perfectly understandable. (The debate on the definition of a "sector" for a S/O is best held elsewhere. As I said it's an insult anyway). It's not just the pilots either. The level of antipathy present amongst staff at all levels and in all areas of the company towards managment is truly mind blowing. In short, current senior management have no hope whatsoever of re-engaging with their frontline staff. Never. Ever. Full stop. Forget Excel awards or Q-Recognition or whatever it's called this week. Alan, your staff are lost to you. That may be part of the plan to shut down QANTAS Airways and leave only a holding company behind but, if it is not, the board needs to start looking at options and soon. |
The staff has the same interest in what Joyce is saying as most of the country has in what Gillard is saying. None.
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Race Bannon - if the pilots, Engineers etc behave in that manner - they're only hurting themselves.
Qantas will further track in a negative direction and ultimately, there will be job losses. They would be foolish to behave in a manner that could create risk in their own futures. |
Pilots behave in what manner ?
They are rostered - they fly their allocated roster. It's not an industrial tactic, it's what they're told to do by their employer. And they do it, quite competently. The Engineers behaving in what manner ? Too much work allocated for the full time staff complement to carry out without compulsory overtime ? I understand it's efficient for a company to run at 20% overtime but by all definitions in EVERY SINGLE workplace agreement, overtime is voluntary. Being that it is actually, voluntary, it can be withdrawn at will, officially and unofficially. Hence there is 2 sides of the coin here. The employees may want the cash or they may not want the cash. The company may want the staff to do overtime or they may not. If it gets to an inflection point where the staff choose to not do the overtime when the company requires it, then we have a problem. Hence the reason why it may be good business practice to run at a deficient workforce number to manage peaks and troughs in demand, it runs counter intuitive to run said policy, when you have a policy of total disengagement running at the same time, consciously or not. |
Qantas:After The Dust Has Settled
The dust has definitely not settled - we lost that battle, but the war is still raging.
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we lost that battle, but the war is still raging. QF copped an absolute bagging on Sunrise this morning regarding it's latest PR disaster. I think the lady commentating on this debacle summed up the whole situation very well.:ok: |
AJ finished a memo with words to the effect that he hopes arbitration will bring an end to this dispute.
He just does not understand what damage he has created! He has a much bigger problem now and is completely oblivious to it. 6000 workers now totally disengaged. Over ten times that number of passengers who don't believe a word he says. Who can book in confidence when the boss wakes up one saturday morning and decides to ground the whole airline. This action is testament to his inability to manage anything! What sort of rational behaviour is that? |
There's no pot of gold at the end of this rainbow.
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I believe this question really goes to the heart of why so many of us believe Qantas, in its current form, is finished. As just about every post above points out, staff are not listening to this management team. Having the terms and conditions of the new EBA forced upon them is hardly likely to smooth things over. Arbitration will settle this battle, and I believe Qantas management will pretty much get what they wanted all along. In the long term they can not succeed in this business with an 'us and them' attitude amongst their staff. Sadly, I don't see any way that can be changed.
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