Virgin Australia Long Haul International EBA is up!!
 

In a poll where 98.6% of the eligible pilots cast a vote, the yay's have won with 85% of the pilots voting in favour of the proposed EBA! Great to see the troops rallying behind our new management's game change plan:D

Great to see management recognizing that the troops are integral to the airline's success.

A good result for current VA pilots, but did the B-scale stay in?? Where would a 10yr 737 capt enter the scale?

Great to see an EBA with a VA 777 CPT getting paid $9000pa more than a VB 737 getting up.:rolleyes: Good luck getting a payrise in the upcoming EBA negotiations. :ugh:

Virgin Media Release

Quote:

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VIRGIN AUSTRALIA LONGHAUL PILOTS AND CABIN CREW VOTE IN FAVOUR OF NEW EBA

BRISBANE 23 AUGUST 2011: Virgin Australia’s Long-Haul Pilots and Long Haul Cabin Crew have voted YES to their respective Enterprise Bargaining Agreements (EBAs).

The voting process was finalised last night and received a very positive result with 85 per cent of long-haul pilots and 93 per cent of long-haul cabin crew voting yes to the agreements.

The agreements operate for three years and place the airline in a stable industrial position.

Virgin Australia Group Executive People Richard Tanner said the airline was pleased to have reached such a positive outcome. “Engagement with our staff is a priority for our business. We are looking forward to Fair Work Australia approving the EBAs. This outcome is the result of a very good and fair process for Virgin Australia, the unions and our staff,” he said.

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Federation media statement
 

MEDIA RELEASE – Australian Federation of Air Pilots
23 August 2011

Virgin Pilots Vote in New Era.

First Union Collective Agreement!

In a ballot that closed last night at midnight, the Virgin Australia long haul pilots flying to Los Angeles and Abu Dhabi conclusively voted up their first collective agreement.

146 pilots were eligible to vote and 144 voted. This is an extremely high voter turnout and showed the high level of interest this pilot group had in this, their first collective agreement. 85% voted in favour of the proposed document.

Lead pilot negotiator Captain Tim Hosking welcomed the outcome of the vote by saying:-

“This is an historic moment for our pilots taking us from individual contracts to a collective agreement that recognises where Virgin Australia is positioned in an uncertain economy and that its pilots’ terms and conditions of employment had to be improved. This provides a sound platform for our pilots and Virgin Australia as we move forward.”

Tim Hosking highlighted that the Negotiations commenced in March 2010 and although difficult at times as the company worked through management and significant structural change, the end result was worth it.

Terry O’Connell, the Executive Director of the Australian Federation of Air Pilots (AFAP), which represents Virgin Australia pilots, added:

“The Virgin long haul pilots have earned this improvement in their conditions and salaries some of which will increase over 25% immediately. Annual increases of 4% upwards will keep the pilots salaries in line with inflation. This pilot group now sits in the mid-range of pilot terms and conditions in Australia.”

He concluded “This agreement furthers the relationship between the pilots and their management and we expect further improvements as Virgin Australia grows.”

The AFAP will now turn its attention to renegotiating the 2007 Pilots’ Enterprise Agreement , covering pilots in the domestic operation flying Airbus A330s, Boeing 737s and Embraers, which expires this coming November.

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For further information please feel free to contact Captain Tim Hosking on xxxx or Terry O’Connell on 03 9928 5737 or xxxx.
The Australian Federation of Air Pilots is the largest pilot union in Australia representing 3000 pilots in Airline, Regional, Helicopter and Aerial operations.

Does anyone sense another tilt at a management gig for our beloved Slasher?

Well done guys!

DIVOSH!

Only $9,000 more than a 737 skipper???

Gee boys don't spend it all at once.

Congrats on a pay rise but you are still way under paid.

A step in the right direction.. well done guys!!

Congratulations guys. For the record basic not including anything i.e. No super, overtime, allowances, DDO payments, ect Captain is $225k year sliding up to $260k over the life of the EBA 3 years. All F/Os have command pay protection for 2016. International allowances per 24 hr $170 for LAX and $195 AUH. Overall a good result. Some may say underpaid but obviously not all judging by the 85% vote.
:ok:

Ok well it's not too bad I guess.

Certainly a step in the right direction.

Enjoy :ok:

So Voz1, will a 737 captain who's been in the "group" for 10yrs be on those rates? What about a 737 fo who transfers? Same as current Voz fo's? :ok:

I should clarify - an existing VB 737 captain bidding onto the 777 would get a $9000 pay rise. The current 777 pilots who voted up the V Oz EBA will be paid more because they will be on a higher pay level - I'm alright Jack!

Anyone who thinks this deal is good for anyone other than existing V Oz pilots is kidding themselves.

Forget the warm and fuzzy "game change" for a moment and consider this: which is cheaper for Virgin - locking in the pay for 146 777 pilots as quickly as possible at rates marginally above existing 737 rates, effectively capping any pay rise for 737 and short haul A330,
or, allowing the 1000 odd VB pilots about to sit down to EBA discussions negotiate a fair pay rise for all Virgin Group aircraft without a precedent already being set?

Another own goal by the unions.

Curious to know if the level increases are additional to CPI considerations or are they stand alone.

Always going to be some pissing and moaning isn't there. :* overall it's obviously been viewed as a positive. Impossible to get your first EBA 100% compromises have made. It's a big step in the right direction. The short haul EBA may negotiate a min level for existing fleet changes. Until the short haul EBA is final, not worth bitching about.

Ok, can you explain how it is a step in the right direction for anyone other than the existing pilots? And where it places the remaining 1000 pilots in their upcoming negotiations. I stand to be corrected.

Voz1, congrats on the pay rise - seriously. And overall, for you, I have no doubt it's a positive. My point is that the unions (plural) should never have allowed an EBA to be put to the vote when it had the potential to negatively effect the conditions of the majority of Virgin Group pilots, whom they also represent. Allowing for a B scale is shameful.

I'm pretty sure the champagne corks were popping at the Village before the unions even got a chance to spruik to the media about their big win.

Is the"B" scale only for the first year?

Slight thread drift but...
Has anyone heard back regarding CrFO positions advertised last month? Any info about recruitment for the rest of the year?
Cheers

Growler are you serious? The VA boys and girls should have waited for the domestic EBA to be sorted out before they could improve their T&C's should they?

That's the point bustard, growler was congratulating YOU on YOUR payrise...it's just unfortunate that it was achieved at the expense of the other 1000 group pilots who may have wanted to come join you one day. So just for clarity, if a 737 captain transferred today, how many years would it take him to get to your starting salary?

Voz1

I think you might be trying to make it better than it looks Voz1. You start by saying the pay is basic not including anything (ie Super) is 225K sliding up to 260K after 3 years. The 225K is correct - BUT the 260K approx INCLUDES SUPER. Why change your 3 year figure to make it look better than it is? Dont forget, you sacrificed 3% super as part of the pay rise, as it was previously 12% super.

This EBA is extremely good for company, lots of celebrations there, it is also good for existing VA pilots because they accepted such crap conditions in the 1st place (any pay rise would keep them happy), but it stuffs any chance the VB pilots have of getting fair pay for the A330 (yet to be included in the EBA), and does not leave much room for 737 payrises. The companies comeback to any payrises will be something along the lines of "why pay you lot anymore than $X, when V Aus 777 pilots only get X amount?"

While certainly better than the contracts originally accepted, it is very short-sighted, and could shaft the majority of VB pilots.

4 years!!

That would be 4-four years. All existing VA crew enter their respective pay scale at Level 4. Any internal upgrades - or transfer from short-haul, will enter their rank at Level 1 this year and Level 2 next year. There will be NO DEC's or DESFO's entering into the Long Haul EBA from outside the group for the life of this EBA. The SFO's have been given a Command pay guarantee, in a separate signed letter to each individual, basically saying that the company expects all of us to have a Command within 5 years, and should that not happen - the Command pay is guaranteed as of June 2016. Many, many good things about this EBA. Some things not so great, but considering our starting point in these talks - being the SS-****e sandwich - the negotiating teams from VIPA and AFAP have done a great job for their members.

bustard, of course not, but we are the same company remember, especially heading down the Group opportunity path. The EBA's effect each other so why not start with the best T&C's and negotiate up from there?

Will the company offer short-haul FO's Command Pay Guarantee if they dont have commands in 5 years? Hell no! That was put in there to ensure they got enough votes to get it accross the line. Small price to pay for a huge savings come short-haul EBA time.

Capt Basil, spot on - finally someone gets it.:D

You're still not getting the big picture Red :ugh:

165 pilots able to vote, 38 offered command pay guarantee, 85% yes. Yeah that really made all the difference between a yes or no.

Dam it, I knew we should have approached the short haul guys to bankroll the difference over the next 6 months while we try again. Would have only cost about half a mil per month. Seems they have the best interest of the whole pilot group in mind all of a sudden, hope they can do the same for the pacbro crew as well.....:ok:

Please enlighten me. We live 'n learn.

Ask the SFO's how good it is. They got the pineapple.

Where exactly is there a b scale? Isn't the definition of a b scale when new joiners will never reach the same salary as existing pilots? On this agreement you will eventually reach the same salary. Also on the domestic eba do new starters not receive the same pay as a 2 year FO? Your time frame for pay rises is hours on company jets, the V Oz is on based on experience on type.

Voz1, I've got a good idea - why don't you suggest we negotiate the future 737 T&C's with only PB pilots, or maybe E-jet drivers. That should get a good outcome.:ugh:

seriously, it's a 3 year agreement. A new start (lets say SFO) will start on $124K and at the end of the agreement be on $135K. An existing SFO will start on $142K and finish on $156K. I know the V guys get a bit sensitive about it, but that is a b scale.

This is not a gripe against V Oz pilots - you were always going to vote this up, I mean look at the turd sandwich you signed up to in the first place. This is a gripe against the unions who have basically dropped the ball for the vast majority of their members.

It's not a B scale you fools, if it were then new entry pilots would move up a different pay scale, it's exactly the same princiaple as the current short haul EBA, that the VB pilots voted YES to 3 years ago. The only difference is VA pay up on years of service not time on company A/C

Ok, lets call a spade a spade here,

The only actual B scale in VIRGIN is the Ejet payscale, which was voted up by 737 Pilots in return for better conditions on the 737. My advice is that VB addresses the steaming dog turd that they created with the Ejet salaries. Once that has been addressed and VB no longer have a B scale, we can have a closer look at creating a more consistent salary structure across the group at the next round of negotiations

If anyone cared to look past the salary scales and at the fine print, there are substantial gains on offer for VB via the credit system that has now been accepted by the company

Except in regards to the VA long haul B scale, when you want to try to call it a shovel.

I'm sorry, I was of the understanding that a b scale was when someone starting today will get paid significantly less for doing the exact same job, than someone starting yesterday, and will receive significantly less for the duration of the agreement.

Not many seem to be able to get their head around the fact that we are all in the same company, and if you drop a steamer in the corner one of your colleagues is going stand in it, or possibly you'll end up standing in it yourself - this applies to 777 b scales (or whatever you want to call it), PB and e-jet.

Can someone give a brief run down on what the V sh!t sandwich was?

Growler

If you would care to stick your head outside and have a look at the wider environment you may observe most serious airlines have a tiered pay structure that recognises experience, unlike VB where a 10 year Captain gets the same as a 1st yr Captain. You may also notice that our new management have taken down the Big Top, turned off the Benny Hill music and are working hard to make the Group look more like an airline than an airborne circus. The VA EBA somewhat reflects this change in management approach. Keep in mind that if we were still under the old management we would have got nothing like what we have, and VB would have been fighting to maintain conditions rather than improve them.

The V salary has at least put in place a structure that recognises experience. Yes there is an argument that a 10 year VB Capt should be more than Level one at V, but by the same token, by transferring to V a VB Capt will have an opportunity to earn more than he will on a 737. It is also important to recognise that the issue of where VB pilots will slot in is an issue for VB pilots, and should be argued in the VB negotiations. Most likely it wont be addressed in this round because in the end there is unlikely to be many more VB Captains transferring once the deed runs out, mainly because ther aren't any more aircraft coming as far as we know. Any command vacancies are likely to be filled by VA F/O's.

The V EBA has also set the framework and expectation for the widwbody payscale, so it would seem logical that 330 pay will be a variation on the V payscale. If that looks like a B scale to you, compared to what 330 Captains currently get, then i gues we will need to disagree.

Take some time to consider what the VA EBA contains and how compnents of it can be used to improve the VB package and you should start seeing the glass as being half full rather than half empty.

At the end of the day, V is still a seperate entity to VB and therfore any perceived cap the VA EBA has on VB conditions is just that, perceived. The ball is now in your court to gomout and negotiate better conditions than VA, using the VA EBA as a springboard

Gee thanks for the observation on tiered pay Keith, thing is you are working in the same group of airlines as me.

With the VB EBA about to expire, I would expect that a 737 Captain would be hoping for a pay rise above the current $190K. Even at 3%, it comes out at about the same as the Level 1 777 CPT pay - not so hot. A 737 FO would (assuming 3% pay rise) would actually take a pay cut to move to the 777 as an FO.

Pretty sure 3-4 years Group Seniority won't buy you a 777 Command.

This is my issue - why didn't the AFAP/ VIPA negotiators use the VB EBA as a springboard to get VA to where it should be? At least it was a decent starting point.

Anyway, too much "us and them", I'm glad you improved the LH conditions, and I look forward improving the short haul conditions for all Virgin pilots.:ok:

Correct, but 2000hrs 777 might