Well said BigBrother.

Alluding to your other post in another thread, fresh management to provide positive attitudes to pilots and staff is NOT gold, its probably worth more than gold. Some many should adopt.

I see it only a daily base at VA the attitudes of the VA staff, both tech crew and on the ground and it's something we should all be aspiring to. Working for that typeof company.

Makes me want to switch teams. All power to VA and their endeavours.

What is stopping you ampclamp , if it is so bad where you are then go . But are you a man or a mouse !

Word on the street is the next EBA is getting closer.

CRFO pay offer is apparently significantly less than what the CS/CSM gets paid. If so, this is pathetic given the length of time people are stuck as CRFOs these days.

Any long haul pilot willing to sell the cruisers out over this should be ashamed.

Word on the street isn't too accurate.

Too many things that the company wants to change that are unfavourable to the pilots and too little on offer as compensation for those change. So little on offer that it is just a no go at the moment.

Couldn't see it getting up any time soon.

As for SO pay I wouldn't have thought so but I don't know what the FM gets paid, don't think it is all that much though.

Current SO level 1 pay $72k.

Current top level FM pay $76k.

Company proposed top level FM pay $89k to be voted on in the coming weeks

**All figures exclude super**

Absolutely disgusting and insulting for a pilot to be paid less than a flight attendant. Nothing against the the 'Flight' Manager's proposed pay of $89k. It's the SO pay that should be significantly higher. You don't have to look far to see what the industry standard is.

So what is being offered to the SO's?

I've been up the front, long(ish) haul and down the back as pax and I know who works harder between an SO and Cabin Crew..sorry fellow pilots..that pay sounds about right

And who worked harder to get there mate?

You're absolutely kidding yourself. With blokes like you in the industry none of them stand a chance.

Fark me

Didn't the SO pay go up to 80 something K?

I'm in no way suggesting the SO pay is good, however want to make a couple of points.

Firstly, the Lvl 1 pay scale was deleted in 2013 - so the lowest pay level is $79k, and goes up to $96k over 5 years. This includes super.

Secondly, this EBA document was/ is available to all considering taking the job. There seems to be a lot of people in this industry who are happy to accept t&c's that aren't going to work for them at all, and then expect others to "take a stand" to improve them. I've seen enough EBA's in my time in this wonderful industry with B scales, special clauses and deeds that benefit existing pilots, and reduced fleet pay scales to secure certain flying, to realise that the majority of pilots will always be looking out for number one.

Go in educated on your EBA, take the job or don't, but do not expect others to fight to improve your conditions, because reality is that it won't happen. That way you won't be shocked to discover that the Cabin Manager earns more than you.

Growler, were you born in the left hand seat of a widebody?

You know what's ever so slightly more annoying than people who dare try to improve conditions in the workplace?

Those who forget that they too were once in that position.

bloke, I think you misunderstand. What I'm saying is that it's up to individuals to improve their own lot, not expect someone else to do it for them.

While ideologically it would be wonderful if individuals considered the impact on others when they vote for an EBA, human nature dictates that the majority don't - I've seen it enough times. I'm still surprised when talking to colleagues (top blokes) about industrial issues and get the response "I know it sounds bad but to be honest I haven't even looked at that because it doesn't affect me". And in fairness, there are issues that others have where I offer a similar response.

So I say again - you can refuse what's on offer and find a better deal elsewhere, or you can accept and get involved with your union to improve your conditions from the inside, but don't sit around whinging about it and expecting others to fix it. I'm pretty sure that goes for most things in life 👍😎

I'd love to meet you Matty J ! Well said Bloke 3000 "And who worked harder to get there mate?"

Now that QF SO recruitment is open to direct entry Pilots, virgin better up the pay offer to SOs or they may lose a more than a few to QF. Especially now that career progression has basically been blocked with VARA and Tiger ( soon ) being added to the list.
Karma !!!!

Bluewhine, they hardly need to even bother competing against QF, they have as low as 1 flight a day that actually is crewed by these SOs.

Do they even need SOs? I mean they operate a few token services to LA, that's it.

BNE-LAX-BNE, SYD -LAX -SYD and about to restart MEL- LAX - MEL, all require SO's so yes they do need SO's.

Why bother with SO's? Why not just have 2 FO's?

Maybe because CRFO's are much cheaper than FO's. They're aren't, however, being paid a competitive rate. Virgin have relied on a lack of outside recruiting competing for their entry level pilots. Could be very difficult to fix now that there are significant pull factors elsewhere.

Virgin ops require min 4 pilots to LAX. Not enough skippers and FOs in the company to do that every flight.

Any external candidate with enough capacity to sit up out of bed in the morning won't bother with Virgin when QF offers the same job on twice the cash in an airline that the public actually respect.

Virgin are only just beginning to discover how important these SOs are to their 'token' flights.

This'll be fun to watch.

Game change complete