Engage your employees and experience.
I stand in my smoko room and there is +100 years experience standing around me.

These employees (zero cost consultants) appear to have correctly predicted B777 should have been chosen over the A330.
They also suggested Panasonic was a better choice to Rockwell.
They suggested the A330 should be used on the International routes when management initially decided they were domestic only.
Never buy the first of a the model type and avoud mixing manufacturers in your fleet.

CONSULT EMPLOYEES NOT THE CIGAR SMOKERS OR THIRD PARTY CONSULTANTS, ACTUALLY MOVE AMONGST THE FLOOR AND SPEAK TO THOSE WHO USE THE TOOLS AND WORK ON THESE SYSTEMS EVERY DAY.

If a consultant has cost you dollars and failed to deliver a positive outcome PHUKTHEMOFF! ie. Oldmedow consulting $150mil to save $5mil ????

Get rid of the multiple levels of management and replace it with accountability and reward or penalty system.

Great idea Steve, but unfortunately a pipe dream, as long as we have AJ and company on board none of these great ideas will ever come to fruition, even if we manage to get rid of them, who's going to step up? Some other inspirational leader that when he sees what's on offer he will have his nose in the trough and we will be back to the same old crap that's what's happening just now. Don't know what the answer is, normally i'm a guy who thinks the glass is half full, but the last ten or so years has been very dis-heartening and i can't see a light at the end of the tunnel unless the govt. steps in or we have a major catastrophy [ god forbid ]. Mr Joyce it's time to leave and take the rest of your #rse lickers with you.

Don't shoot me for this but I have been wondering why the company is so keen to outsource so I have been playing with the maths. Firstly, lets ignore the quality side, we all know where we stand on that.

If I earn $120k pa (incl super etc) and I work 38hrs a week for 52 weeks a year that is 1,976 hrs. Now reduce that by five weeks holiday, some DILs etc and we are down to around 1,700 hours. At work, I'm on the tools for say 75% of the time (meal breaks, training, chatting to the tool crib operator, sick days etc - lets be honest it is probably less than that). So my total hours spent wrenching on an aircraft is about 1,200 a year. My rate per hour of productive time is therefore $120,000/1200 = $100/hr.

Now, I'm told rule of thumb for Asian outsource is $50 an hour US - at the moment say $45 Aussie. Remember that in this, they are paying their staff, overheads and theoretically making a profit.

If a 744 D check requires 30,000hrs the cost of doing it offshore would be $1.35m whereas doing it here would potentially be $3.0m ($1.65m gap...). Even taking into account a ferry flight and fixing defects on its return, I can see that the numbers aren't in our favour.

I want the work to remain here. Fed Sec, how can we ensure this happens?

How about fixing the computers that engineers use in the planning huts?

Not a day goes by when you are under the pump and walk up to a computer to find it doesn't work. The amount of time wasted hiking over to another hut to find a PC that will print or just look something up, or waiting for a computer to become available to use must surely be inefficient. By my reckoning it's 1 in 3 that don't work.

All this push recently to "Go Green" and recycle your old mobile phone (a wank considering how much carbon the airline industry creates for the planet) should go into taking the PC's that dont work, salvaging parts and putting together machines that work. Sure new shiny machines with flat screens are nice, but aren't we trying to save a buck here?

What is going to happen when we become even more reliant on PC's when the new MX system is bought in and people cant do anything because there are not enough working PC's for everyone to use??

Just think, this invaluable insight and information is FREE! Not one cent paid to greedy "consultants"...

Will the company use it? Well, first they'd have to admit they were wrong on so many counts!

I won't be holding my breath...:hmm:

BP2179, well done, you have clearly annunciated the [unstated] goal of globalisation - the importation of third world terms & conditions for workers to the first world.

You can't fix something that has long been taken out back and shot. The gravy train started slowing up when Impulse became bed partners.
Good luck folks, sincerely.

bbbbbzzzzzzzbzzzzzzzz

This......
Qantas add-on fees soar sky-high | News.com.au
is a disgrace for a full service airline....

So Bruce says to Alan, "Mate we are finally making money by charging our suckers for everything from muffins to the air they breathe!"

Alan...."mate I'm on to it, can't think of any negative reprecutions of that strategy in a full service airline" :ugh:

Can some one answer this question:

Why the hell is LG and her team searching for a new business model for the international business (aka Qantasia)???

When we read this gem in the preceding NEWS article:

QANTAS is one of the worst airlines in the world for add-on fees, a surprising report has found.

Hey buddy.....this ain't a surprise.

Its a surprise that the media are finally running with stories like this.

The prestigious brand and past reputation have been effectively flushed down the dunny by these mongrels ...who care little for pax, staff or shareholders ....only the size of their bonus (when it comes-sic !)

LG can search all she likes for the Holy Grail. She ain't going to find /invent it.

BUT,..........we had it darling. When Qantas was a proud, world leading airline with a safety and service reputation second to none.

What is the sound made when a toilet is flushed????/


FFFFLLLLLLOOOOOOOOSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH:cool:

Quote:
How are they changing the A380 Config?

As far as i know they are getting rid of first class. They told us about a week ago and that the reconfig would be carried out in Manilla. I don't think LT in Manilla have ever worked a 380 but the Qantas Supply department have determined them the best available option

Nice rumor, Maybe call one of the members to find out what exactly the reconfig programme is.

AWB Clerk,

I hear you on the infrastructure thing. One question I would ask though is what have YOU done about it? Have you declared the computers you find broken unserviceable, lodged the IT tickets to get them repaired, reported to your supervisor the status of the computer system, and then followed up to ensure they are repaired and you have a conclusion?

I know it might not be your job but if everybody took an interest in their workplace and made a valid contribution to improvement (even if it is not in their job description), as opposed to sitting in the smoko room complaining while they wait to be given another aircraft job by their supervisor, the small things that can make a busy day unpleasant would dramaticaly decrease.

I am not having a go at you personally and perhaps you have done everything I have just mentioned, I am merely using your post as an example of how we as employees (of any company) can demonstrate flexibility and initiative to improve our own coalface which in turn will impact on the overall efficiancy and profitability of the company we work for.

GB

You cannot succeed. You will not be permitted to succeed. The Board and Management have decided you are a "Legacy Airline" and their decision is final.

Why will you not lie down and die?

At the shareholder meeting a vote of no confidence in the current board needs to be pushed. Joyce and Clifford are to be axed and a new board who are pro Qantas need to replace the current one. 777s need to replace the older aircraft and a expansion of longhaul routes need to take place to compete with every other progressive forward thinking carrier in the world .

Transfer your Super to a SMSF
Take as much leave as you can or cash it in.
Go to work, come home.
Do this for about 3years.
Look for another employer in the meantime.
Qansett is here, it's just a matter of time.

Isn't it just a tad ironic that the latest A-380 is called:

SIR REGINALD ANSETT.

Now -I have no issue with this ....as he was an AUSTRALIAN airline executive/pioneer.

But in light of what is happening with the IRISH airline "executive"......mmmmmmmmm:ugh:

It's almost comical to see the rogue and kamikaze unions leaders being blamed for this mess.

As we have seen before the average pay for a Qantas employee is just shy of the CPI in the last 10 years (you can got back further) thanks to a pay freeze around 911 and SARS period, yet it seems we are to blame.

I can certify for no less than 5 types and earn marginally better than a Virgin LAME on 1 type but we are told we are too expensive. We have HM guys with years of experience and are worth their weight in gold when it comes to efficiencies and skills.

I can see the why we are losing money and it's not from excessive pay rises it's from years of farcical management decisions that equate to have a camp fire with one hundred dollar bills.

Good luck Steve but surely your head is hurting :ugh:

Maybe, just maybe, the Fed Sec knows something that is occurring behind the scenes. Maybe he has been talking to a potential CEO replacement, who could be gathering info on how to fix the mess? This thread may be the opportunity to get great ideas to where they can be used to do some good.

Naive and overly optimistic, maybe, but keep great ideas coming, just in case..

Yes the head is hurting but it needs to be done. In about a week I will write a summary of the best parts of this thread. Hopefully we can then build on it to build the airline back to what it should be.

Look forward to that. For me, by selling the orange star to focus back on Q is the only answer. It must be obvious to all, but not the current managers and their mates in the business press.

Either sell J*or it's going to be Qansett.

Unfortunately this is exactly what the managers are hoping for. Think of it this way, good bank, bad bank. All the goodies are stuffed into the "good bank", and all the toxic waste into the "bad bank".

Qantas is now chock full of the jetstar start-up & opportunity costs (old fleet), and so, ailing. Jetstar, on the other hand has all the goodies (new fleet, routes, landing & terminal slots). If Jetstar is to be sold off, it will be purchased by private equity (KKR?), and all the execs will be in the lifeboat. The toxic waste farm (QF) will be flogged off to the widows & orphans or re-nationalised or put to death.

So much has to change.

1/ leadership (not a boss) that can instill trust, reinvigorate the brand and public profile.
2/ Stop fighting your staff
3/ refresh the product ( projectors, hi 8, vhs and cassetttes tapes.How embarrassing)
4/ A forensic examination of the empires , rent seeking committees useless layers of bosses , hangers on ... plenty of fat there and it includes plenty in engineering and surrounding areas.
5/ Fly places you can reach and get home reliably with everything the customers check in.
6/ Buy the right aircraft.
7/ Have Qantas fly to places people want to go to, not just have to fly to.
8/ Offer VR. There are plenty of people marking time just going thru the motions (although that does not suit the current industrial for various reasons)
9/ Cut the bull$#@! stuff. fed sec touched on this. Whoever the idiot who signed off on those ridiculous mirrored cards should be sacked yesterday. Also the farcical "quality course". Paying staff O/T to sit thru eight hours of utter crap that WILL NOT alter one behaviour is errant and wasteful nonsense. It just reinforces the view management are out of touch with reality.
10/ Truly engage the staff. Use that massive resource to your advantage. ( Tell him he's dreaming) At present you tens of thousands of staff telling the public the place aint what it was and a lot worse.
11/ Separate Jetstar. Make them earn their required return on captital as if they had to pay for everything they buy and use. Jetstar has a place. Keep it in its place and stop the cannabilisation.
12/ Stop carrying JQ on QF and vice versa, Customers hate it.
13/ Stop spending money on a new HQ. So many places it could go that would be more productive.
14/ With the assistance of the AIPA and ALAEA lobby govt for better depreciation schedules for aircraft to compete with other tax regimes
15/ Piss off the consultants. If excom, or whoever, cant run the show properly they do not have the skills and should be sacked.
16/ Do not go down the path of hidden extras charges. All it does is piss customers off. Apply reasonable but strict baggage limits and APPLY them.
17/ If procedures need to change consult the staff about how it will be done in such a way it meets the company needs and staff are redistributed or offered VR.
18/ Ensure staff have the required training to do everything required of them. ie one person to do a job not 2 or 3 because they cant sign etc.

Just a few. many covered some not. Good luck.

and do not allow the 'brain dead' managers take the money and leave on Friday and come back on Monday on a contract, apparently this is happening all the time.

yes, some brain dead CEO must have signed off on that one!

Fed Sec - maybe a brief summary could be posted to each board member other than the Chairman and AJ by Tuesday or Wednesday so they had it in their hands in time for the board meeting next Thursday.

Introduce an Employee Share Ownership Scheme.

It has been floated and shot down many times before on this forum and in others, but using the model of Southwest Airlines' Scheme, you can empower employees and give them something to much more directly gain or lose through the implementation of their ideas and knowledge (someone has suggested the value of the 'free' consultancy that could be gained from the intrinsic institutional and industrial knowledge possessed by employees).

What better way to have workers truly striving towards achieving the most efficient, desirable, and inspiring 'PREMIUM' carrier that consistently delights and excites their customers.

Go easy on me... I'm allowed to dream :hmm:

breakfastburrito, you are spot on.
It appears that's the plan anyway, probably why Clifford defended AJ in the press recently, he probably knows people can see through the cover now. I have no hard copy re KKR, but I concur with you, this is what I am hearing as well, the people privy to the plans are worried about the timing, other words the real delivery date for the B787. On another thread Japan plays an important role as many parts for B787 have been delayed because of the recent natural disaster. I noted in the press re Toyota, who have suffered so much because of manufacturing delays it has dented their world wide market share figures. In a sense the same applies to these alleged plans by Clifford and co. I doubt AJ can continue to fund all the J*setup/development costs that is bleeding Q dry much longer, I believe we are not too far away from someone in the know spilling the beans. I suppose we need to keep the pressure up on this angle. Here's hoping!

here are some thoughts,

• Pilot, Engineer and Flight Attendant fleet pay.
• SO's are apprentices of the flight deck, they should be paid that way. Why is a 20 yo SO being paid 50% more than a LAME of 10 years?
• No Ops managers
• If fleet pay was implemented, train all Engineers on all aircraft. Your productivity and utilization would be at a maximum.
• Introduce Voluteer Advisers from the floor (pilots, engineers, fa's) on to a purchasing board for new aircraft, configurations etc. Boeing did this for the design of the 777 and look at the results.
• Give employees more ownership in the company. bonuses should be shares, not cash.

These are just some things i have thought of

TIMA9X, I have been following the Japanese situation pretty closely since the Tsunami. I don't want to turn it into a 787 thread, but there are a couple of points.

• Japanese electricity system. The country is electrically split into two halves, the south operates on 60Hz, the north on 50Hz. There are only 4 interconnect stations between the two. Overall, the Japanese are facing a power loss >15%, however, this could be as high as 30%. However, industry could be forced to reduce usage by much more than these numbers to allow domestic air conditioners to make summer bearable. However, this will not be split evenly between the north and the south, with the north suffering much greater power shortages.
  
• The major damage to electrical infrastructure is in the north. This is not just the generators, but the distribution system as well.
  
• The majority of the B787 composite components appear to be manufactured in the north, and I assume that composites takes large amounts of energy to produce, not sure of its source. I also assume the jigs & ovens cannot be readily relocated.
  
• Fukishima is going from bad to worse. There is now official confirmation that 3 cores have melted and are sitting under the plant as corium. This occurred only 5 hours after the Tsunami (TEPCO's own number was 15 hours). They have known this all along. They are going to continue to dribble out more bad news to keep it off the front page.

So, in short, if I were to have a bet, on the balance of probabilities, the production rate for the 787 is going to be dramatically affected, on the information we have at hand. I reserve the right to change this if the facts change. The 787 will be certified, some will be delivered to various operators, however the delivery rate will be a huge problem for the Jetstar strategy. The execs must be sh!tting themselves (if they have actually worked this out). The tide is going out, and we are about to find out who is swimming naked!

Peter Cosgrove:Qantas Board Member
 

His view on leadership qualities:
Leadership uncommunicated is leadership unrequited
Leadership requires integrity,courage,humility and compassion.
By Cosgrove's definition Qantas management are lacking
Cosgrove is also the Chancellor of the Australian Catholic University

It's ironic that the Fed Sec is trying his hardest to save the mainline business and yet all we get from the CEO and Chairman is head-kicks in the media.

You would think with all the challenges ahead AJ would role up at a EA meeting and say "Look this is the truth, this is where we are and here's our idea to get out of it what's yours?"

No....we will see a PR campaign that will attempt to shift blame on to the pilots and engineers during the forth coming legal industrial action.

Sorry but our situation is not by chance, it's incompetence, it's bad decisions, it's lack of engagement it's years of distrust and bullying and it very sad to see us where we are headed.

The idea that s/o's are overpaid is correct IF there is career progression. As it is s/o's stay as s/os for years and years.

Love Peter Cosgrove and what he has said in the press and his book on leadership.

Unfortunately he will always be tarnished by his presence on the QANTAS Board and the perceived role he has played in this rubbish.

As an ex QF employee of 23 years, it is frustrating to see how QF is being driven down by, from an outsiders opinion, Senior Management with an apparent agenda to dump the brand. I know others have said this as well. Currently living in China, if I want to fly back to BNE, I can only do this from PVG or PEK. OK that is fair enough. However, the problem is that to book a ticket, I must use a credit card. Being a foreigner I can not obtain a credit card in China, so have to use Aust card, with fare converted to Aust dollars. To collect my ticket, I must go to a QF office (only 1 in Beijing and 1 in Shanghai) and show my card. This means I have to go to Shanghai (closest to the province I live in) a day ahead of travel to be on the safe side (delays/problems et). There is an additional cost in having to do that. Once at the office, I want to pay cash in RMB. Can I use my Chinese bank card. OH NO, we do not have the facility in the QF office. You must go and get cash. Off to the bank, or prior knowledge, I am carrying nearly RMB 10,000 on me. Not really wise carrying a lot of cash anywhere. Flights ex PEK are all via HKG by KA or CX (might as well book CX and stay with the one airline) or China Eastern via SIN (again easier to remain on China Eastern all the way if I am doing that. Flights ex PVG are similar, KA (3)plus Cx (1)might as well be 4 for CX, China Eastern (1) oh and 1 per day by QF. Again I might as well book CX all the way. Choice QF via SYD up to BNE or CX via CNS to BNE. Cairns is so much nicer and easier. Now this is just my situation. But I bet there would be many people (ex pats & locals) who would like to fly to OZ on QF and do not live in Shanghai or Beijing and have to go through this routine.Easier to go to a local travel agent and book direct with alternate carrier and pay with bankcard or Chinese credit card if they have one. Sorry it just seems QF have lost the plot here, and looking at where they don't seem to fly, it feels QF are stuck in the past or being driven somewhere to the detriment of the old QANTAS. Do you remember when the captain used to farewell the pax? Anyway now off topic.

hand's on tits and snatch - agreed, employee ownership is the go!:8

Just get a new manager who knows what he is doing.

Improve Service

Respect Staff

These three simple things will see passengers coming back.

Why can't I fly Qantas to Bali -- I fly Air Asia every month both ways, and God it's better than Qantas and Virgin combined. The food is almost as good as the flight attendants :)

DaHai

Try booking an open return from Qantas in Oz. I used to do that years ago and it was up to 20% cheaper than buying the ticket in Hong Kong for the same flights.

kick joyce out of the office and move in steve = problem solved.

Here's a thought,
Take the present CEO,all his under studies,then the group managers,managers,HR consultants etc etc and all the other uni grads that are suppose to run the show,add a few off the floor LAMEs,some line pilots and all go for a Sandakan type march,at the end, see who's left and these are the guys who should be running the show.
I am sure the managers will get together and talk about how they are going to survive and not.The workers will see an oppurtunity.take it and will shine.QF need to go back to listening to the guys off the floor,take there point of views,good or bad but at least listen.
QF could of been the pioneers in 777ER's Syd-Lax if CEO's listen to Pilots and Engineers,less fuel burn,built like brick s**t houses,proven technology,but accountants make these type of decisions:D
Also topped level managers need to get some smoke goggles and have a look through the smoke screen that has been put in place by Dmm's and Base managers of the real story of harrassment and demoralisation that has gone on in engineering over the last 10 years,it's no good sending the fox in to find out who's been killing off the chickens and reporting back up the management tree of shame that all is good.

Thanks Neptunus Rex. I will look at that.
My frustration was more in line with what one has to go through, to purchase a ticket on QF in China. Not the same problem with Korean, Singapore, Cathay, or China Eastern who can fly ex Guangzhou. Seems thay find it worthwhile but QF seem to think only 1 city ex China (1.3 billion people) is viable.
It just seems QF have lost the way (on purpose as others have already suggested.)

The problems with QF Internaional go back over twenty years , it had sruggled for years , always requiring the goverment of the today to inject cash to prevent it going under . It was propped up by legislation that guaranteed QF 50% of the market into and out of Australia . When the Gov't took that prop away, market share statred to fall . In addition there waqs the disasterous reign of the CEO in the mid 80's who spent like a drunken sailor, ordering A/C like no tomorrow not to mention holiday Islands , cruise ships and Hotels . When the recession "we had to have "chimed in, along with the Piots dispute of 89 , QF International was a basket case . Gov't had to put its hand deep in the taxpayers pocket to bail it out . A/C parked up against the fence , Coopers& Lybrand brought in to "assist " management , thousands of redundancies the outcome .
So , the Gov't decided QF International could not survive as it was ,it merged the two publicliy owned airlines and got rid of the merged entity as a drain on the public purse .
The present state of affairs has been a long time coming , it would be very sad to see Charlie Q go under , given the level of bitterness allround it does not look good.
Those who look to the past with rose tinted glasses are fools , Qantas International has always been a battleground for the Unions and management of the day . I could bore you with a litany of disputes right back to the last Pilots strike in 1966 , but whats the point! The die is being set , I only hope those who have good jobs with QF are not on here in the future wailing about the good job I HAD with QF .

Hey Unionist.... You are sounding very much like WK over on QREWROOM. Only problem is you've disappeared after Mike G trumped you!

All this talk of QF going under, is quite frankly is ludicrous.
Im sure there are alot of people with axes to grind would love it if we did but its not gonna happen anytime soon.

There is probably alot more chance of Virgin going under than QF. When the end of year reporting season comes around, there will be a BIG difference between the 2 airlines.

Dont for a second think Im defending the current management. They are clearly inept and I wish there was such a thing as a very quick, wide broom to come along and wipe them the hell away from the joint.

I just cant see Australia letting another major airline go under (what would that say about this country's management skills...we'd be a laughing stock)

Anyway, just wanted to get that off my chest.