Yes, correct Icarus on all counts there, however:Future prospective cadets will need to be cunning to find out the information. BB stated quite clearly at the inquiry that the cadets would be earning AUD $67K - this is correct until they have the required 500 hours, then they will be shipped off to NZ. BB stated is NZ is where they want them to be. Then, the NZ $42K contract comes into play. So technically he is correct, over a short time scale.

Further, a real AUD contract can be plonked down in front of the future cadet, without telling him that this will be for the first 500 hours only. Once the contract is signed, its too late.

There are very few genuine sources of information (PPRuNe is probably the only one) that would allow a future cadet to make an informed decision. It is easy for us, as we understand the angles. Even sleuthing on PPRuNe would be a difficult slog to get to the bottom of this mess as it is highly convoluted, with so many gotchas. This is quite a sophisticated con.

edit: NBBS, just caught your post. I assume by "Initial cadets" you mean those already in the j* system? If this is the case, it is already too late for them, they have signed on the dotted line. They are on the hook. As for saving your mates, the first rule is to save yourself before you help anyone else, they are already screwed. Hello servitude.

Please, please ,please stop calling these schemes and scams cadetships. They are not. Using the word helps to make them legitimate. If everyone referred to them as "supposed cadetships" more people would look more closely at what is going on.

If a company offers a person a real cadetship, said company invests both money and time in the cadet. The company pays for and provides education and training for the cadet. The company does not try and turn a profit from him.

Yeah I figured when BB mentioned the AUD$87,000 that the cadets will be employed on in AUS would only be for the line-training and for them to spend time with a senior captain until they have the required time to go back to NZ.. The smart one's will use this time to payoff as much of their debt as possible in this time! Not go out and blow it because they are flying a jet living at home!

Correct me if I'm wrong but their will be a number of cadets both from the ab initio program and ACP (oxford and CTC) to commence line training next year then be shipped to NZ! Is there even room in J* NZ to cope will this large influx of cadet pilots??

Noted KS... All though the so called cadets are paying a third party organization wholly for their training they believe themselves to be cadets and are employed under a cadet contract!

I agree, lets for argument sake call it the 'airline initiatives model', sounds a lot more positive than what it really is. The same pilots employed under the 'airline initiatives model' will not only remain eternally bondaged to debt (Breakfastburrito as usual is right on the money, to coin a phrase) but they will be further endebted to - An etrnally maxed out credit used to pay for food, fuel, a possible mortgage and the once a year beer. Then add to the equation the Harvey Norman 'furniture on credit' scam, Radio Rentals TV, electricity, water, rates and rego (by the way all inceasing well above and beyond the CPI, unlike there meagre salary) and you have the makings of the next generation of depressants, suiciders and fractured marriages and families.
Lets not forget that these guys are going to have to work several jobs just to put bread on the table, they will be having minimal rest breaks between shifts , but of course this won't impact safety or fatigue at all will it ?
Yep, a successful system indeed.

P.S An associate informs me that Fort Fumble has recently advertised internally for you guessed it 'CADETS' ! True story.

What you guys need to understand is the American "for profit" education system which is being applied here. Poor folk pay $40,000 in loans to get qualified as "Medical assistant" or "Dental receptionist" - meaningless non transferable qualifications.

I submit that an MPL is exactly the same.

Workers of the world.........

Some good discussion going on elsewhere on the forum

http://www.pprune.org/interviews-job...io-scheme.html

Anyone spot the common denominator between this business model and the jetstar scam here in oz?

More to follow

The kelpie


Ps to answer an earlier question re the inquiry report, no idea but believe it is May sometime! I also understand that Jetstar may have an appointment with a tribunal over attempts to allow 'foreign' employees to fly in Australia under anything other than the EBA! Watch this space!!

John Lamings submission sums up the schemes better than anything else. He hits the nail square on the head.

The Inquiry has put a temporary spotlight on the industry and its "leaders" industrial tactics. These so called leaders have barely even noticed it, just a couple of days in a busy cost cutting schedule. A small speed hump in a long journey to get the best possible strategy to ensure the lowest possible conditions. Once finished it is my opinion that things will not only return to normal if anything in the long term it may get worse. It will give these leaders more confidence, power and knowledge as they will now know the boundaries and consequences of top level public scrutiny. If Senator Xenophon and co don't make drastic and sweeping changes we will wish that the Inquiry had never taken place.

More scrutiny and pressure on individual pilots.
More information for leaders to base industrial decisions on.

If you want a good professional/family life choose carefully which list you get your name on. The colourful screens and fancy cockpits will wear off and soon it will just be a means to generating income for a mortgage. Hard to believe at 18 years of age.

Ultimately working for a company who's entire focus is cost cutting isn't going to prove to be an enjoyable experience for 40 years is it?

Hansard for 31March enquiry hearing is now up on the Senate website:

Parliament of Australia: Senate: Committees: Rural Affairs and Transport Committee: Inquiry into Pilot training and airline safety including consideration of the Transport Safety Investigation Amendment (Incident Reports) Bill 2010: Public hearings a

So where to from here? any more hearings?

Nbbs

Negative!!

Cheers

Kelpie

well that was an anti-climax.

I'll eat my hat if any significant changes are actually made in the industry for the better

Thanks for all your had work throughout this Kelpie... lets hope that changes are made for the better!

I hate to say it but it seems, with aviation at the moment, its like trying to catch a falling knife... Anyone thats smart enough to be a pilot would surely realize this, there's plenty of other opportunities out there!

A bit late now for this suggestion, but a visit from Mr Sullenberger to the inquiry explaining where the US has gone wrong and the path taken here is the same would no doubt have generated mass public attention. In addition to that he makes a very good presenter of the facts.

It's worth bringing in a consultant some times, and when you need buckets of public credibility to get the greater community worked up it's worth it.

Might be worth sponsoring Senator X a trip to meet Sully to discuss. Sure it's a bit of a publicity stunt as well but that's what you need to keep the heat turned up.

I suggested it probably six months ago... clearly it didn't happen.

I know for a fact that Sully was approached by one of the unions, but he was unavailable. Shame really!

The matter of requesting Sully to appear I understand was raised but considered (not by me) to be 'too hard'

An opportunity sorely missed in my opinion.

The Kelpie

The fact they tried is good enough for me.

Good enough.........but no cigar!

Perhaps it needed to be worked on a bit harder to get something to happen. Video link even.

But getting the press on his face in Oz would be the ultimate.