Would now be the perfect opportunity to get AusALPA up and running as the overarching Pilot's Union?


With all this offshoring of pilots jobs, I wonder if the Australian Taxation Office would like to start taking a closer look?
Unless one divest's themselves of every Australian asset you are up for Aussie tax. Aussie tax rates on what could only be described as "Coolie wages" would make some/most of these contracts totally and absolutely untenable.:ooh:

If you want a taste of what's coming down the line, watch this video:
The Life of a Regional Pilot
The full series can be found here: PBS flying cheap.

This is why you must turn up on the 23rd.

Taxed on the income your assets produce at about 30%. But, importantly for your argument, you are not taxed on wages.

However, the ATO may want to have a close look at where the pilot bases his family. How much time is he spending in Australia? He could be deemed a resident for tax purposes and yes the coolie wages won't be so good.

Not forsaken to the fact that Australian pilot jobs are under threat and clearly the only way to solve this problem is to sink New Zealand... (please hurry global warming!!)

I find it absoloutly hilarious that the people jumping up and down are mainly current JQ pilots.. perhaps you should have a chat to some of your senior members who had/have absoloutly no problem at all in undercutting their Qantas counterparts!!! the shoe is on the other foot now boys! Karma is a mofo!!! unfortunatly for all of us it was these guys that started the snowball that we all have to stop... race to the bottom?:ok:

Teggun posted,


I can tell you from experience that the only way you will influence them to sway from their agenda is to get the public on side and more than likely that will only be done by playing the safety card. The PUBLIC response is the only thing that will scare this action because other than that it is all LEGAL, and people will do what it takes to get the job (like it or lump it).

You have all seen the response from BB to the onshoring of foreign pilots rhetoric and that is...

He is entirely correct and acting within Australian industrial laws.

Jetstar are part of the QANTAS group and the only thing the QANTAS group will protect at all costs is their SAFETY RECORD. Anything else can be easily dealt with via the many highly paid spin doctors on their payroll.

Unfortunate as it may seem to the Pilots involved the public really is not that concerned because they dont see an airline pilot as 'doing it tough' so using the fair play angle wont cut it with the Australian public, the majority of who are on 1/3 the money and doing more hours to get it.

Once again it is the public opinion that will sway these people from their course, NOTHING ELSE. You all need to find the springboard to make that happen.

I wish all of you the best and sincerely hope that the 23rd will be the beginning to a quick solution.

Again I want to say I hope you guys completely turn this thing around as it is a travesty that you are the latest to feel.

Please read Mr. Hat's post (#20). He has it right on the money.

GB

Unfortunatley th QF Group has precedent on their side in relation to flight crew, ie cabin crew:

BKK based crew working on Aus reg aircraft within Aus and international routes (for 9 years till it closed)
NRT based crew the same (for over 20 years)
Jetconnect Longhaul and Shorthaul AKL/CHC based crew on both Aus reg and NZ reg aircraft
LHR based crew working on Aus reg aircraft (and now cross-crewing with Aus crew)

There was no succesful objection to 'same job/uniform/aircraft... but different salaries' from the two FAAA divisions. One division of the union did try ...

And there is now B-scale Aus based crew... again same uniform/aircraft/ work... but different salaries

So how do pilots think they can object when the practice has been going on for years with CASA endorsed cabin crew?

nPlease -- I am ot having a go - just dont see how it can be achieved - QF successfully set the precendent with cabin crew many, many moons ago.

Do you think the courts will see the difference between CASA endorsed cabin crew and tech crew? (Yes I know the job is very different, but will the courts see it?)

Interesting point though, if pilots win... what will happen to cabin crew who are currently a similar situation?

Go for it !!:ok:

The Cabin Crew situation is quite different. Many of the pax flying between Oz and Asian destinations do not speak English. They feel more comfortable if there are CC who can speak their language and look familiar. That is simply a comfort and commercial consideration. It can also be argued on grounds of flight safety, when emergency instructions in the appropriate language can be delivered by native speakers.
Most pax never see the Tech Crew, so their ethnic origins do not matter, just their professional abilities.

Perception
 

In the past 44 years, not one life has been lost on any Australian Regular Public Transport operation. Australia is rated Category 1 in FAA's International Aviation Assessment Program. As a nation, we hold a proud Flight Safety record that is second to none.
Having flown with many pilots and flight engineers from many different countries, I can say that Australians are right up there amongst the most professional I know.
However, we can't help but display a 'larrikin' streak at times. In most cases it is just a bit of misplaced modesty, not wanting to be seen to be standing out from the crowd. Well, we bloody do stand out from the crowd! We are simply the best, and that is what our passengers want to hear.
Unfortunately, airline pilots are still perceived as well-paid silvertails, and management play to that idea. The only way to win the battle against overseas based pilots taking Australian jobs is to push our professionalism and safety record. Stop the threatened influx first, then address the CoS issues with airline management.
Perception is everything. Choose some pilots who look the part, and can speak convincingly, to go in front of the inevitable TV cameras after the meeting. Have them prepare and rehearse their replies. Keep emotional responses (and the rest of the throng) out of the picture. Invest in a good PR company and fight fire with fire.
Don't just wait and react, plan ahead to keep the bastards honest.

Some good points being made about to handle this scenario.

But still there is the dwelling on what's gone before. Yes pilots have forgotten GA as they progressed, Yes AIPA and AFAP have had differences, yes sc@b$ started the rot in 89, yes AN pilots deviously undercut QF in the JQ debacle and yes QF pilots arrogance is biting them on the bum. Put all that to rest. Sure; don't forget it, tell the grandkids etc if they care but as long as it festers we will get nowhere. Let it go and move forward in some kind of unity - preferably one large combined Professional Pilot Association.

And as the last few posts have stated, the PR battle is all important. Forget the salary issue, the public aren't interested. But they are interested in the fact that none less than the US President has authorised minimum experience legislation to avoid crashes like Colgan. They have also seen what poorly trained/disciplined foreign pilots are capable of - the Garuda crash killed and injured Aussie journalists - the very people who will relay our message.

Again, this is just the first fight of many. Do it well and united and we have a fighting chance. Bitch and bicker at each other on PPRuNe and nothing will change for the next 10 years.

Fellow Pilots

I totally agree with the issues,I'm not personally affected by all this,however I do strongly feel that the conditions in Australia for pilots right across the board should be improved.

My personal view would be to expose the safety issues to the public,to force the people pulling the strings to act positively. I wouldn't be happy sitting in the back of an aeroplane knowing the pilots up front aren't operating at their best as they have personal things on their minds,ie financial pressures,family problems and career progression concerns all due to their management team hiring foreign pilots.

For those who don't agree with me,just ask any Jetstar or Virgin Blue FO how they feel about this issue.

Is a double edged sword!

Alternatively, taking ‘Ownership’ of the Strategy and the Company wouldn't kill the goose and if well conducted, may well strongly appeal to the public, shareholders and staff alike.

A hundred grand a head is hell of a lot less than wages potentially lost to industrial action and/or accepting an offshore contract.

You have a choice. Think carefully. Plan long term and don't rush in.

The public and the media absolutely need to be on side to stop off-shoring. Managers need to be persuaded that bad publicity on this will affect ticket sales.

The PR needs to be handled very delicately. Purely playing the safety card against foreign labour can very quickly be twisted to look like xenophobic bigotry.

Also any actual industrial action resulting in cancelled or delayed flights will only alienate the public. I'd bet folding money that in light of any industrial action, all major newspapers & media outlets will find some sob story about an orphan child who's dying of some horrid disease, who's only wish is to go on some exotic holiday. But alas they cannot because of those rich, greedy, xenophobic, pilots. (Just as media has done in the past.)

TID Edit:

Hey guys, I made some really stupid and inflammatory remarks, for which I've been banned by the mods.

You won't see me comment on this thread again.

Is that okay?

NEXT!!

200 posts thus far.

The question is how many at your workplace are aware this meeting is taking place. Lot of the guys I fly with are still not aware.

Have the relevant unions sent emails to their members? As far as I'm ware they have not...

Not a good start really.

All AIPA members have been notified- twice now.

I'm a Jetstar FO, I'm a AIPA member, I will be there!!!!!!

I will be there as well (AIPA member) and looking forward to a few bevvies after.;)

Be careful - be very careful. You can be sure that the gutter press journos will follow you from the meeting and try to eavesdrop on your conversations, then let rip with a slanted, sensational story for the next days papers.

Watch your collective six!

The headlines are already printed, waiting to go on the 24th ...

" Airline Pilots threaten Christams travel chaos "

and the AFAP...

VIPA..


VB people are fully aware of it?

Lot of people don't even know what prune is. Suggest AIPA people/reps call AFAP/VIPA advise VB REX etc.