Govt Trying To Ban Jump Seats Again Today
 

Heads up: The Aust Govt is trying today to reintroduce the legislation that banned off-duty pilots using jump-seats. The Senate last year, as many of you know, voted last year to disallow the legislation following a great deal of work by aviation professionals.. The Govt has dragged it back to the Senate, attempting to have the disallowance rescinded today (they are trying to get a "rescission" of the disallowance).

You can see the dynamic order of business in the Senate here: Dynamic Red - Wednesday, 24 February 2010 The item is to be debated after carbon pollution and health issues, likely prior to 1245pm.

ABC radio is broadcasting live coverage of the Senate today, or you can listen to it live on the internet also.

I'll make no further comment at this stage, other than to say I'm pretty close to the politics going on here and even I'm not sure which way this will go. It will be very interesting listening and I encourage every professional aviator to listen in if you have a chance.

I assume this means they want a total ban on the jumpseat other than CASA FOI or a check captain on a check flight?? The airline I work at allows ASIC holders who work directly for the airline access to the jumpseat which I think is a reasonable policy.

Who exactly will this affect? And why is it even being considered?

Surely theres not some security concern is there?!

If you've got Foxtel, The Senate is also being broadcast live on Sky News Active (Ch. 600), if you select the 'National' news prompt.

Nothing more than a case of
"How dare you challenge me! I'll show those pilots, just like my mate Bob"

bbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Ironically, banning Jump seat travel may just assist a would-be hijacker.

The advent of Ballistic/Lockable flightdeck doors will in no way stop the ingress to the cockpit of a well organised and determined hijacker(s). Unless the flight crew choose to keep themselves locked in for the entire flight, it only takes a moment to grab the opportunity when the flight attendant delivers the coffee/meals, or a pilot needs to use the bathroom!

Asside from the infamous FEDEX incident some 15 years ago, can anyone tell me the last time an aircraft was taken over by the Jumpseat passenger? Most turboprops, and a large number of medium size jets have a jumpseat that when occupied, effectively acts as a barrier to the flight-deck and the pilots sitting behind the controls.

By taking away the Captain's right to asses and determine the suitability of travel in the jumpseat, the politicians and knee-jerk reactionaries of this world just may be playing into the bad guy's hands.

Perhaps the Government could debate in the Senate the viability of pilots wearing diapers, and/or preparing their own meals as well as flying the aircraft! :rolleyes:

Email this to you local federal member ASAP.

Looks like debate has been deferred to later in the day, since the Senate spent forever debating private health insurance.

Senate Vote
 

I think this is all about the Government whipping up hysteria about terroism to deflect from their other problems(e.g. ceiling batts).I say leave the decision about who enters the cockpit to the airline and or Captain of the aircraft.

Just sent my email, look forward to the reply (if any)!

404 Titan,

From what I have read the UK has a partial ban on the jump seat. The UK allows the jumpseat to be used by operational personnel that are on duty, ie you can not occupy the jumpseat into or out of the UK if you are on staff travel.

I think they should ban on-duty pilots from using the jumpseat.

No more line checks!:)

Asses
 

Krusty I know the captain has a lot of authority but he has no right to our asses, maybe a diaper is in order if he does gain that right.:eek:

Oh there are soooo many one-liners which immediately spring to mind after that most unfortunate spelling error!

Anyway, this was completely predictable. Albanese totally had the ****s when the pilots successfully lobbied to have his little love-child (and stupid) piece of legislation disallowed. As a matter of personal pride, he will now do absolutely anything to "show us who is the boss".

Included in his little gem was the fact that a Captain would be criminally liable if a cabin crew member left the door unlocked after leaving the cockpit.

Albanese is a Class A Angora.

Well in that case if you were wanting to do what they are suggesting. Why wait to be on staff travel ect. Just wait till you are on duty that way you have access the the metal fork the plastic knife thats just as strong as the metal fork and the best one the flamin crash axe. So really i am amazed that they even allow pilots onto an airplane, let alone unsupervised behind that locked door. All i can say i guess what a bunch of W**kers that we pay to run this country.:ugh:

That should make the entire operation completely secure by not allowing pilots on the flight deck.

Jump seat travel....
 

One less seat which can be used to get home....:{
Maybe now is the time when guaranteed seats, and higher priority for staff travel, has more relevance? :suspect:

Note to self - make staff travel a priority for next EBA negotation. :ok:

Unless it's a company check captain why allow any others access to the jump seat?

Whether it's another pilot, a CASA amateur pretending to be a professional pilot, a flight attendant (God help us!) or a company employee, they're all a pain in the ass in the cockpit!

I got rid of the pax years before the 9/11 thingy took off.

Best thing I ever did!

Keep them all out suits me fine.

obie2, you sound like such a nice chap. I bet F/Os do roster swaps to fly with you.:rolleyes:

The Senate was so busy talking about climate change and health insurance today (Wednesday) that it never got to the Aviation Security legislation. I note the matter is in the Senate Order of Business for Thursday 25th Feb.

For what it's worth, ATCs would love to have access to a jump seat solely for the purpose of professional development. forget about a jolly to (insert location here) for the weekend, just a trip somewhere and back to observe the cockpit workload, put into context the impact of the instructions you give day in day out, and god forbid, get to know some of the people we talk to.

Personally I'd like to see every ATC do at least 1 trip a year - we certainly don't get any Sim time to practice anything, at least we could discuss issues with operational tech crew.

DNC

Does anyone have a copy of the actual bill?

DNC the problem with your idea firstly is that it's a good one.
Secondly it makes sense, would benefit the industry and cost the taxpayer and operators nothing.
That in itself should rule it out.

I’m with Dog. No pilots on the flight deck = 100% security

Another good idea which will never see the light of day!
 

[B]For what it's worth, ATCs would love to have access to a jump seat solely for the purpose of professional development.[/B]

and that goes for LAME's too....it would be nice to see the a/c operate the way the tech crew do.

but alas.......

hey guys, what happened at the senate? did it go through?

On Thursday the Senate talked about everything under the sun, except this issue. They do not sit again until 9th March. The Order of Business (the "Red") has not been issued for that day yet.

I believe the Opposition and other non-Govt senators continue to support the pilots' position. However two weeks is a long time in politics and deals can be worked. If your MP is a non-Govt one, and you feel like doing to, a short note to them might be valuable. Simply say you understand the Govt is attempting to rescind the Senate vote that squashed this overly prescriptive piece of legislation; furthermore that there are clear safety and security benefits from having off-duty pilots jump-seating and hope (the MP and his/her party) can continue to support that position.

If your MP is a Govt one I don't think you'll be able to change their mind.

Perhaps AIPA's recent "Pilots Change Law" article was a tad premature..

The good old days as a LAME when you were actually taken on a test flight and sat in the jump seat to see what was being tested and how things were working. We used to call it shared risk. If you worked on the aircraft and something went wrong during the test flight then you copped it the same as the flight crew.

Most memorable commercial jump seat rides, ANZ DC-10 from Los Angeles to Auckland from terminal to terminal and a rare invite from Qantas to ride in the jump seat from Sydney to Jakarta in a 767 (after take off to the terminal). I did not realise how confusing Jakarta was to navigate the taxi ways to the terminal and neither did the flight crew as it was their first time there.

Chances of getting these sort of flights now or even onto the flight deck? Zero.

Sleeve of Wizard,

Jumpseats still available to stafftravel crew in and out of UK. Commuters would often be lost without this! Captain has final say.

If this law was passed in the USA then airlines would come to a grinding halt. It's never going to get passed over there, so why on earth do we need it?

Ahhhhhhhhh. The secret is now out in the open! Poor old Boomerang will be sent to Coventry by his brothers if anyone establishes his identity.:}:rolleyes:

I challenge anyone here to honestly state why commuters or anyone not directly connected with the safe operation of an aircraft should be permitted to ride the jumpseats and be present in a sterile environment. And, pray tell us, why the Captain should have the final say?

It's his ship. A useful tool for those commuting, staff travel when loads are heavy, atco's as above. There Ken, couple of reasons and that only took me 10 seconds. All ASIC holders as well. Been working just fine for years, so why change it? Because Albanese is a fool, and doesn't like the fact that he was shot down the first time. As for his comment that pilot's shouldn't decide who gets on the flight deck, and politicians should, he has simply proven himself a registered idiot. The funniest part is any one of us could do his job, probably a whole lot better. The reverse however, is not true. Fu:mad:wits. The lot of them

Ken,
You don't by chance work for the OTS do you? They'd love to have someone of your mindset on their team.

If you want to make sure the flight deck remains sterile, might as well stick an esky with food and drink and a camping dunny in there and lock the door tight for the duration.

PorchMonkey - indeed they are f-wits!

Crikey porch', just say what you think, don't hold back! Gotta' agree though, F@rk'n politicians, their arrogance and ambition knows no bounds. Mmmm, sound's like some check captains I know, but that's another story.

Jeeez' Ken, lighten up mate. I reckon the opportunity to allow travel in the Jumpseat is of huge benefit to the industry. Sterile flightdeck? No arguement from me. Can and should be managed below 10,000 feet. Hardley rocket surgery for a competant and professional crew, such as yourself perhaps.

Aside from all that, my comments in post #6, I feel are definitely worth taking into consideration. Socket and Duchy: Crackup guys. I didn't edit the post because what fun would that be.

Safe flying,

Krusty. :ok:

Yes Ken the Captain does have the final say, and I know how that grates with you ground pounders. As I alluded to in a different thread, you management types (although I suspect you are fairly low on the totem pole) just hate it that Captains have the ultimate authority as to the disposition of an aircraft under their command.

In fact I'd say thats probably the top reason you hate us so much..it's our authority isn't it?

Sure you envy our lifestyle (I've been to work once in the last three weeks) our pay..still pretty good..hehe I could go on! But I'd hate to give you a brain embolism as you relate this to your fellow slaves in the staff canteen.

Don't worry though Ken, I'm sure you will rack up enough KPI's to treat the family to a feast at Sizzlers very soon.

Bon appetit!

ATC on the Jump seat
 

Out of Sydney in the 1980's and 90's we had a scheme going where the ATC people were welcome to the Jump seat to see how the system worked from our side.

Tmb

Do all the airlines have different SOPs surrounding this issue? Or is it always just at capt discretion?

How all so bloody sad. Only twenty years ago you could have little kids visit,sometimes you would get a second world war fighter pilot, who could spin a few yarns and give you some insight to his war and his survival, all of which made for a interesting days work. If you were unlucky, even your missus turned up with more digs about sitting down all day.... It made the job more interesting by far, with the people you met on the flight deck, how the world has changed since 9/11, the innocence gone, sorry to say it, but sure glad I flew when I did......:(

The issue did get a hearing on Thurs 25th Feb after all. I missed it since it was contained within debate on another Aviation Transport Security amendment (to do with cargo).

Have a read of Hansard here if you are interested: http://www.aph.gov.au/Hansard/senate...s/ds250210.pdf . Scroll forward to page 36 - the jump-seat issue starts at the end of 36 and runs through 37 and 38. The excellent AIPA press release from last week is quoted extensively. The Opposition appears firmly on the side of sense and logic, I'm happy to read.

why cant the polies stick to s..f.ing the country and keep out of a business they know nothing about although they havent got an airline to destroy have they? No ansett is gone.:D