As per my post # 14

-800 driver,
We've all made typo's before, don't sweat the small stuff matey:ok:

i suspect cane worm was trying to prevent a pedant like you dwelling on irrelevant matters. now then lads, no more to & fro nonsense please and back to the thread

Settle down lads, this is history repeating its self, and in a couple of years time recuitment will be on again, big time, at my age I have been thru waiting for the shoulder tap on more than one occasion, it did not come, but I know the waiting feeling. As you are all probably aware the JQ boys and girls are flying their butts off, indeed some have been called in from holidays to work, especially on the A330, whilst QF pilots are sitting on their arses, also on the A330, and it is being strongly considered to send 6 A330's wet (both tech and C/C) to JQ, the A/C in JQ colours, tech crew on QF wages, c/c in JQ uniforms and on QF wages,to ease the situation, now this might enrage some of you even more, some will be grateful for the work, some will say you can wave goodbye to those A330's they will be lost in a big black hole known as JQ for evermore, but whilst the travelling public are using JQ more than ever and mainline is in the doldrums due to the economic climate it makes sense, because like it or not it is JQ that is bringing in the bacon right now. Now before you all start blowing your gaskets (both JQ and QF) it is only being cosidered, my source? somebody up very very high in JQ (not a pilot) it might not happen, but it could, and there is bugger all you can do about it in this current situation, if for no other reason than at least some of you are working, even if it makes some of you QF blokes feel like throwing up as you board, it beats not working and feeling extremely uneasy all the time, time will tell.

Pilots - Becoming Trailer Trash!!
 

Hopefully this is not where we are headed...........

LAX parking lot is home away from home for airline workers - Los Angeles Times

Qanchor,
just as i was deciding whether to respond to her (or not) you piped up with a pearler. could'nt have said it better meself.
by the way, cool username

Ahhhh TG - yet another one foot in the grave retired captain suffering from relevance deprevation syndrome.....

Your 'high up' contact in JQ is obviously your source for the information that as far as QF group profitability goes JQI is 'bringing home the bacon'

This is so far wrong it is laughable.

JQI has been destroyed in Japan and yield everywhere else, especially on those routes 'gifted' from mainline is through the floor also (see Hnl for example)

It may well be that more A330's are gifted to JQI.

So be it.

But be clear that this decision will be about ego, hubris and IR ideology driving a business decision, rather then cost or revenue benefit analysis.

Read his post again, matey. He didnt say JQI was bringing home the bacon.

As a QF 330 driver I would rather sit at home on $250k than work my arse off at JQ. If im forced to go to JQ it will be on QF salary, If not ill retrain on something else in QF B767/737 whatever. Easy choice really.:eek:

I'm trying to sort through the poor spelling, punctuation and grammar and am left to believe that the problems at Qantas started in Human Resources quite a long time ago!

Some of this argument and sentence construction could be better put together by the average fourteen year old.

(Does "Wooden Eye" work at QF?)

Exactly....as posted above. Part of the problem for mine. As for the people currently being employed by JQ, I am sure they have applied and put themselves out to get there. Possibly even chosen to seek employment at JQ to suit their specific requirements as opposed to entry level QF longhaul. I am sure, when the current QF SO's who are unfortunately at risk at the moment, chose to seek employment or undetake selection with QF, that suited their needs or wants.
Hopefully no one loses a job and if those at risk have an agreement allowing them transition to JQ, then fair enough, but sorry if not, the application forms are different! Definitely feel for those that have done it tough to get there though.

Thanks.

The S/O's under threat are not covered by the MOU so there is bucklies chance of them being taken up by JQ.

As usual the JQ pilots contributing to this forum are viewing what is being discussed through the lens of their own victim mentality syndrome.

No one is talking about taking your jobs or disadvantaging you in any way, despite the fact that thats EXACTLY what JQ and JQI has done to mainline pilots.

Also, the political aspect of this process means that mainline 'pollution' will not be allowed to seep into JQ. Not now, not ever.

Having said that, you can see how the effected S/O's might feel a little non plussed at their situation when its been generated mostly by the fact that aircraft and routes were / are given to another airline.

And when one considers how RH and his mates set up the JQI deal, then it puts the whole thing into context further.

more pilots needed in J*
 

as they will take over HNL seven days a week by christmas:eek:

With the reqruitment excitement and energy experienced over 18 months ago it caught managers across Qantas, Virgin, Rex, QantasLink and many other airlines in the emotion and off target when things went south.:confused:

These companies have employed people so freely, scraping the bottom of the barrel in some cases last year, going overseas to look for people on 457 visas. So much for looking after our own back yard.


These companies should be encouraged to have a moral obligation and responsibility to their employees. Whilst companies should have flexibility to continue to be successful in a highly competitive industry on a global scale, the expenses associated with pilot employment would be significantly considered in a company such as Qantas for the long term benefit.

The economy will swing around. At this stage, Qantas management are looking at opportunities to cut costs out of the business to make it a stronger and more competive industry leader when the economy lifts again. It would be disappointing to see the pilot group, under pressure of this sought, be forced to accept long term depreciation to employment packages, just to fix this short term overcarriage of pilots....which was managements fault in the first place! From a managers point of view, I would be trying to screw out all the dead wood. One area is to cut costs through employment packages. Just remember, all pilots in Qantas are affected by this, from the top of the seniority list to the bottom and even those yet to be employed. Don't be fooled!:ugh:

Teresa,
If what you're saying is correct about the 330's going wet lease to J.I. why not simply leave the balus' in QF livery, cabin crew in QF uniform and just run the service as a charter. The cub's wouldn't know if they are on a 330, DC6 or Zeppelin, it's simply a machine to get them from home to some place warm, get the hair braided, maybe get a new tattoo and then come home. The in-flight service could be downgraded to align with J.I. catering policy. Might even make it easier for the "group accountants" to disguise and/or bury the cost as an expense to J* and bill it back to mainline.... now there's an idea!
No need for aircraft repainting and uniform re-issue unless there's a hidden agenda here.
Hmm, (c'worm looks up and to the right with hand on chin), I smells a rat with this idea I's do.[sic]

Longjohn,
Don't get too excited with Rambo's declaration of malingering, he's just stirring the pot to make us hardworking mainliners look bad. :ouch:
He's not a QF pilot, hell he probably doesn't even work for an Australia airline. Nice try rambo, but no cigar.:=

Yes I don't know which is more sad... ramboflyers post or the willingness of others to believe he is a QF pilot...:yuk:

Caneworm, I suggest that the Balus goes into JQ colors because they have no intention of handing them back! As for the other gentleman who sees me as surplus, you are quite correct, but as I have three sprogs working at the sharp end for different companies (which sometimes makes for some rather uncomfortable family B-B-Qs at times) even though I am no longer a working Airline Pilot, I am not completely brain dead, and as I never done anything else to earn a quid, I take a keen interest in their careers, indeed in what happens to all of you and the companies you work for, it is interesting to see history unfold in the Aviation industry, so humor me please!

Qantas is Qantas, Im senior enough to hold a command on something else in QF , Let the 330 g0 to JQ on their pitiful conditions they begged for.
They are different companies and if anyboby starts mixing the two then management from both sides will have a field day.
:ok:

Rabbitwear=Ramboflyer.

Why are you EK pilots trying to masquerade as QF people? Bored in the sandpit are we?:suspect:

According to Robert Gottliebsen at Business Spectator, and Etihad Airways CEO James Hogan, there is little or no truth in Rambo's claim:

Quote:

---

...they are different companies and if anyboby starts mixing the two then management from both sides will have a field day.

---

Quite the opposite it seems.

Quote:

---

RG: So, those legacy carriers that don’t change their work practices are likely to go out of business?

---

And that was before the tie up with Delta & Northwest.

IMHO, the future is Intergration - not Segmentation. :ok:

Kremin,
I think you're right about rabbit & rambo and by the tone of their posts, they are most likely the same person. I guess they're just mischief making to take their minds off their own T&C's being p1ssed up against the wall by the camel jocks. Misery loves company...

Teresa,
Agree with you about the master plan, quite deliciously (with apologies to Bruce McAveny) machiavellian really. It never made sense to me to have 320's & 787's in a LCC operation, I've always thought 320's & 330's was a better mix, maybe this is the start. Also heard that their project team had a 787 "wake party" last week, now I'm starting to believe my own rumours! :hmm:

The B787 was ordered by the QF group for many reasons - but one important one was the delivery timetable promised by Boeing. It was going to be ready several years before the A350.

Now that the B787 is going to be further delayed by 6 to 12 months (there was a Seattle newspaper article recently which detailed some of the technical issues), the difference in delivery times will be so much shorter.

So the B787 still makes sense for mainline, while the A350 would integrate into the JQ fleet so much better. And BB did tell some techies recently that he was in talks with Airbus for a substantial order. He just didn't say what types...

Different blokes, both liars.
 

View their previous posts. Both obviously ex-EK now with JQ.

NEITHER WITH QF.

Buchanan another tool. Rather naughty chap on a Qf flight if i remember! Boston consulting group with a sufficient knowledge of aviation to fit on the back of a postage stamp...

QFinsider,

Not that I'm a supporter of BB, or Executive managers generally, but let's face it, their lot aren't the only ones who qualify as tools - especially if misbehaving on a QF flight is the major qualifying factor; I seem to recall a particularly senior QF captain behaving like a major one on a QF flight southbound from SIN. Something to do with (a) too much Champers pre-departure, and (b) making a demand (which was duly refused) to see the tech log in-flight. (c) was going to be very nasty indeed, until a moment of clarity during his Champered blurr convinced him that a retreat was in everyone's best interest.

Especially his.

At least BB married the one he was misbehaving with.

The Townsville refueler's cousin recons 90 pilots to be made redundant :confused:

newsensation, seeing as you where at the AIPA meeting yesterday, please give us a précis.

6 months notice for redundancey. Maybe Qanats have hung in as long as they see viable. By giving notice now, from a business point of view, they are saying if things don't turn around after the busy holiday season, they will lay some pilots off. Kind of makes sense. As far as guys going to Jetstar, don't see how viable that would be either.
Reason is, they would have to be endorsed(if not already), inducted trained and checked to line. All of which could take a few months.
What happens, in 12 months time, when Qantas say, "we need you back". I'm sure there are plenty of guys who would run back in a heart beat without a second though of the cost or consequences of leaving Jetstar short staffed. These same guys that jump on here and whinge that Jetstar is so far beneath them.
I gaurantee if they are given positions at Jetstar, there will be a minimum R.O.S required.
My motivation, yes I currently have an application with Jetstar.

metrosmoker, if I follow your logic, J* should employ you while the "Qantas Group" guys & girls (who also had an application in, passed the psych, sim check, initial endorsement, cyclic's & possibly probation check) should be sacked & join the dole queue. Is this correct?

That's right breakfastburrito ... So if I follow your logic, you think mainline QF SOs should be given preferential placements into other qantas groups (J*/qantaslink) without conducting a recent skill & psych, sim or interview, while guys & gals who work for the qantas group who jumped through all the hoops where sittiing on LOIs for months and then told they'll have to do it all over again? Is this correct?

Well it seems fair enough, Qlink/ J* pilots can go to mainline without any of that nonsense... can't they?...

Of course, grrowler!
.
.
.
.
.
.
NOT!
Every Qantas employee is created equal. Some, more equal than others. :yuk:

For the record I do not agree with anyone from the "Qantas Group" being sacked, and a new joiner being employed elsewhere in the "Qantas Group". I have never advocated such a policy, nor do I support it.
Personally I support a GOAL type arrangement that allows pilots to follow the work within the group.
I have not agreed with previous AIPA's administrations actions regarding regional & Impulse coverage & support.
If the roles were reversed, I would support a J* pilot being employed by QF, rather than being sacked.
I was most pleased that ex-AN (the supposed corporate enemy) pilots were employed by QF, all of them have been a pleasure to fly with.
Management are the ones pushing this agenda, not the pilots.

Media campaign?

The story, if it ran, would last a day.

The continued employment of a group of pilots is not news.

Sorry, but you are laboring under mistaken ideas if you think otherwise.

I must be under the mistaken belief that the Government / Labor party would give a rats about a major Australian company seemingly openly flouting their policies.

Something about "Transfer of Business" and ducks?

I think it would last more than a day in the media ....... a lot more than a day.


N

Yes, That is what I am saying. If Qantas pilots go to Jetstar, then they should expect to be required to stay there for a reasonable period of time. What that time frame is, I don't. But why should another airline be dissadvantaged in 12 months time because of the current situation.

Most importantly, this is my view as is affects me at present.
Why should my plight be any less/more important than anyone else's. I doubt there is one guy in Qantas who would take a pay cut, demotion etc to save the job of another pilot in the company. Everyone will have an opinion dependig on how the situation will affect them. If you can't see that, than is it any wonder that pilot's have the industrial issues that we have.

polesmoker

You said :
Are you referring to "the company" as in the Qantas "Group" or simply the Mainline operation?

Because pay cuts/less hours are exactly what is being considered right now by the pilot group to avoid retrenchments and a huge majority of pilots are willing to do so in order to save jobs.

You clearly have no idea...good luck with your Jetstar career :yuk:

Many QF drivers are working reduced value rosters- effectively taking a pay cut- to save the job of other pilots in the company. If it comes to it I'm willing to vary the EBA to reduce min guarantee hours below what it is currently paid- effectively taking a pay cut- in order to save the job of another pilot in the company. (Hours to go back to normal when conditions improve and other standard 'return to normal operations' clauses are an obvious inclusion).

It appears that metro is somewhat ignorant as to what QF drivers are willing to do in order to help out others. Sadly it's that type of ignorance that keeps the J* and QF crew at arms length. Many of us are mature enough to not succumb to those sorts of confirmation biases.

Ah, I see Transition Layer beat me to the punch.

Keg is in love with the term "confirmation bias".

:)