Qantas mainline made their bed in the 90's and now they are screaming they dont like it.

Notam (and Dragun), you have no idea. The policies regarding transfer between various parts of the group are set by management, and no-one else.
Try drawing the gun first before shooting your toes off.

It appears to me there are a few people here who seem to be somewhat deluded as to the reality of the Qantas group. Qantas, Jetstar, Eastern and Sunstate are all separate companies, hence no reciprocal employment entitlements exist between the four (with exception to the QF/JQ MOU), in both good times and bad. That's the way QF wants it to be....

Who remembers when the 30 or so Impulse pilots were retrenched a few years back? Basically they were booted (with a right of return clause), and given the opportunity to apply for employment at Eastern. Employment was conditional upon successful completion of the Eastern recruitment process at the time (Sim + interview) and positions being available.

In order to maintain consistency, I can not see why it would (or should) be any different for any other pilot in any of the group companies (under the current circumstances). Sure, give them a shot - however they will still need to complete whatever processes that the target airline requires (assuming there are vacancies).

From what I understand, Eastern and Sunstate are VERY bottom-heavy at the moment.

Lots of luck!

The number of $8 million to be saved by the Second Officer retrenchments has been mentioned.:confused:
IF this can be saved by the Pilot body by LWOP etc [as has been suggested] then really we only need about 30 Captains to take LWOP to cover that!:}
How many over 60s are there??:E

Kremin,

Before you accuse others of incorrect statements I will spell out a FACT for you. In around 2001 a QF company which was being closed down sought assistance to redeploy it's staff(pilots). Mainline(management) indicated that the greatest hurdle in this was AIPA,FACT!

Industrial issues sit on both sides, don't think it is management. Feel free to message me and I will enlighten you with numerous details of some key players within the QF management who indicated this.

I don't see what the big problem is?

A pilot takes a leave of absence from QF and applies to JQ. If they meet the entry requirements and pass the JQ skills test and interview, then they are offered a position at a base as required by JQ at the bottom of the JQ seniority list. If they don't like the T&C or basing, they go elsewhere.

At the end of their QF leave of absence, they either go back to QF if there is a position available, stay with JQ, or go elsewhere.

It was reported that JQ is forecast 10% growth this financial year, QF declining 2-5%. Seems the prospects for career progression would be much better at JQ anyway. If you are near the bottom of the QF list, you are likely to remain there for a very very long time.

I wish those facing the axe at QF, the very best in being able to secure employment in other parts of the group if that is what they want.

I cannot believe people on the forum would rather see you thrown out on the street. Very sad the pent up anger people such as Tassie Devil and KABOY have - must be a real hoot to fly with them.

Please dont concern yourself about how I am in the cockpit, I dont really feel bitter . You can research any of my posts and you will see the theme of everything I have complained about is the attitude that the Qantas group owes mainline pilots a job if they are not wanted. They can have an interview and thats it, no promises just the way AIPA wanted it. Thats all I have ever said!

Marvel,

I welcome the opportunity to fly with you on the A 330 some time very soon, then you can pass judgement on me.

For those who haven't yet gone to a briefing sesion, the problem with the MOU is that Jetstar is refusing to take any mainline pilots because the KRudd/Gillard Industrial legislation that came into effect 1Jul09 requires for conditions to be transferred along with the staff, i.e. Jetstar would be forced to pay QF pay rates and all the other conditions of employment. Legal advice to both QF management & AIPA indicates that there may be a way around this hurdle but it is taking time - in the meantime JQ keeps recruiting for its Darwin base. At this critical stage, eveyone should be attending the briefings rather than slagging off at management or AIPA based on a total lack of the facts.

Joyce and Strambi are aware of the adverse PR effects of JQ recruiting externally while QF mainline pilots face the sack and have indicated support to find a way around the IR legislation.

Kaboy, the FACT of the matter is that AIPA would have no input into the recruitment of pilots from outside mainline unless it was proposed that they take positions out of seniority i.e. coming in as FO's and Captains.

AIPA does not set the recruitment standards or is it involved in any of that side of things.

If these pilots were to be deployed as FO's in mainline, that would be an industrial situation and I can see why AIPA would get involved, as would be the same if the situation was reversed.

A possible fix
 

Dear AIPA,
Suggest you go slow with this one. By the time the QF (public service-like) bureaucrats come up with a fix, we'll be out of this mess and there will be no need to lay-off anyone.
Might actually be the first time in QF's history that it catches the employment pendulum at the right time and we won't have to then live with the consequences of making a faustian deal in haste.

Meanwhile nearly 2000 QF employees are being made redundant in various other parts of the business.

Little wonder that Qantas are growing anywhere BUT mainline.

Wake up boys and girls, you are only a protected species so long as the zoo survives. Now is the time to signal a real willingness to engage in structural reform not to quote decades old EBA clauses in blind hope that the economic winds will blow more favourably.

The path that AIPA are taking you down may very well turn out to be somewhere in the garden.

Capt Kremin

Where did I write that the policies were written by anyone other than management? You've obviously completely missed the point. I wasn't arguing which agreements are in place, what they are or where they came from - I was arguing that the consistency of the situation is lacking if pilots want to transfer between group companies.

Try drawing the gun first before shooting your toes off.

Anyone remember a small Qantas group company (jet operator) that was wound up and what happened to its employees? Hello Southern. Pilots were not good enough for mainline but fine for Cathay and Dragon. Go figure. The biggest impediment to successfully applying to a Qantas group company is being in a Qantas group company. There are plenty of Qantas group trained pilots plying their trade in direct competition to their old alma mater. This situation looks like the first time that mainliners are going to be on the receiving end of the bastardisation that is policy at QF HQ. The only difference is they now have motivation and numbers to change the bastardisation policy for the better. The bigger question is do they have the leadership to make this happen.

I say let them burn long john.
So many outdated eba provisions, flying near 900 hours a year, the ability to have your days off infringed, read blown out of the water, having silly flight time limitations that enable lhr-bkk, bkk-lhr 3 man crew but then silly 4 man down to oz rather than paxiing someone home, and redundancy entitlemnts that make it near impossible to sack anyone at the top. Its little wonder that others outside the organisation, deemed it fit to correct this ridiculous situation by negotiating contracts to operate aircraft in a much more favourable manner (even though no one's job was under threat!) so that these draconian conditions could be erradicated foreever. Good one hero.

Dragun, I was responding primarily to Kaboy who seems to believe that AIPA controls QF recruitment.

Kremin,

You appear to have contradicted yourself between your first post attacking Dragun and then myself.

Recruitment policies were not discussed in management discussions in 2001.

If you want facts I suggest you contact me, rather than make assertions.

So, what did you expect?

Direct entry at the bottom of the seniority list?

Or did you go for broke like the legends of the amalgamation period and demand datal seniority?

Tell us KA BOY. What were your expectations and why do you now feel so bitter?

Is the answer AIPA pushing the contracting out line, and get back the flying from Jetconnect, Cobham, EFA etc?

Though in saying that, those guys loose out??:confused:

The venom being spat is understandable, Australians always can be relied upon to do it to each other when envy is involved.

Have any of the vitriolic posters here considered that the people likely affected by this potential turn of events were nowhere near the company or union until the recent past? They are real young people with families in many cases doing the same hard luck yards in GA. They were fortunate (or good enough) to get selected and now face an uncertain time. They didn't create the division but you sure maintain it.

You make Oldmeadow's job so easy..