jetstar curfew fine at YSSY
 

Her it is folks.The "jury" has spoken.




Jetstar has become the first Australian airline to be prosecuted and fined for breaching Sydney Airport's curfew.
The airline was fined $148,500 in Sydney's Downing Centre Local Court on Tuesday for breaching the curfew on December 3, 2007, federal Transport Minister Anthony Albanese said.
Jetstar pleaded guilty to the breach in January 2009.
Mr Albanese said a Jetstar flight breached the curfew when it departed Sydney airport about 30 minutes after the 11pm curfew, even though an application for dispensation was rejected.
The court decision sent a strong message to other airlines, Mr Albanese said.
"Compliance with curfew legislation must be observed," he said in a statement.
"The government remains committed to the retention of the existing curfew and cap on movements at Sydney Airport."
The maximum penalty for a curfew breach is $500,000.

:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

What would it have cost for Jetstar to stay at Sydney for the night? Perhaps an unethical manager actually saved the company money...

What an embarrassment that joint is!

The world laughs at us!

The only good thing about Sydney airport is the Deena 4!.... oh and the kebab place in the VB terminal

bbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Jetstar don't care about the fine, QANTAS will be paying the fine. :ok:

7378FE

Another reason why YSSY is a joke.......god forbid a couple of minutes late is going end the world.

I am sure all the JQ passengers on board agreed with the decision. Besides, the aircraft actually took over water, not land so the "disruption" to the precious residents would havebeen minimal.

I think a warning for a first time would have been enough.

The curfew is an absolute joke.

The Hawker 900XP was rejected from the excemption list even though the 850XP which is noisier has been on it for years. During curfew you can only take off or land over the water anyways so what is the harm done? Are the ships unloading in Botany Bay going to complain?

The answer from the department was something about "not putting an additional undue pressure on the system during curfew hours". Please, SY controllers could make a killing playing the US stock market (at the moment anyway) or writing a thesis during curfew as there is nothing else to do.

"Undue pressure on my re-election" would have been far more appropriate!!

As for the fine. The re-election issue would be a likely consideration again. "I have been tough on the reckless airlines who so brazenly break the rules. Under this government, the airlines have been fined hundreds of thousands of dollars....." :D:hmm::rolleyes:

The curfew issue at Sydney is one to which I will not be drawn into deep comment, other than to say I think that any 'global city' should have an airport accessible by international jet operations 24 hrs / day.

That having been said, rules are rules, and to blatantly disregard them (and no it was not a matter of 'just a few minutes') is criminal by definition and deserves to be punished! If you don't like the rules by which the game is played, don't break them, lobby to get them changed. All this incident serves to do it weaken JQ/QFs position to get the rules changed.

I say again SYD needs another airport which is not affected by this curfew...

A question for the tower controllers in YSSY. Do you know if someone who wants to blastoff during curfew has a dispensation or do you just have to trust the pilots? I find it strange that the tower would let you TKOF knowing that it is breaking the law.

One Dot
before we go for another airport in YSSY let's try to make the one we've got work better.

The checklist to a better YSSY starts (and finishes) with getting the pollies and their tail covering flunkies out of the game - scrap the movement cap - open up the curfew for designated a/c types - and fix Air Services.

The green paper submissions under infrastructure and noise are full of well meaning advocacies but reality is that the numbers in the adjoining (possibly marginal) electorate offer a more convincing argument.

$148,500 what a joke of a fine
even an average house in Sydney cost more than the fine, Jet* laughing all the way to the bank still.

The judge should be reminded Qantas boasts of its cash reserve at 3 billion dollars, I'd say maximum fine of 500,000 is still a little ripple in the Indian ocean. Not felt nor heard, not even newsworthy.

The Captain should be demoted or punished for this total disregard of the curfew. Whether he was leaned on by a tosser manager or not does not obsolve him/her from his duty to obey rules including a curfew no matter what their opinion. I don't believe there would be a QF pilot that would have the balls or stupidity to try this on. Flagrant disregard for the curfew by the crew and Jetstar is a total joke.

Aircraft are advised that penalties may apply, and then they can depart if they still want to go ahead. ATC's lost the ability to stop aircraft a long time ago. It's up to the captain.

Starts with P,

thanks for the answer.

For all we know, the flight crew were told by operations that they had a dispensation.
As for the curfew, I fully agree with the above posts. what a joke.

'International cities'?

Does that mean other backwaters such as London and Frankfurt don't qualify either due to their night restrictions?

Taking off after 11.00pm is not a criminal offence by the way. It is an offence against the legislation, but not criminal. Other airlines have made the commercial decision to ignore the curfew and been fined as well. I am no fan of Jetstar but keep this in perspective.

if it comes down from the ceo to take off and he'll suffer the consequences then I'll go. Talk of sacking or demoting is utter nonsense considering the only offense is noise. Off the soapbox please.

Curfew at YSSY
 

Having an international airport which is restricted to only 17 hours of operation per day is a bit like having an interstate highway only able to be used in daylight. As others have said, if the politicians had any desire to do anything other than get re-elected they would tell the complainants to sell up and bloody well move. There would be very few, if anyh, that have moved into the noise affected area that did not know there was an airport nearby.

Yeh - but now that the curfew has been in place for some years now - the public/locals/pollies etc are going to have a big fight on their hands to get that changed so that SY can ben used 24/7.

call for flaps fourty at 12dme and drag it in.
 

my 2 cents, get rid of the stupid cufew. the runway 16/34 alignment has been at SYD for probably 50 years. get over it if you live on a flightpath.

and 'up yours' to the limit of movements.

with the company's blessing, i would break the curfew with glee in a heartbeat!

ps. dodgy, when in SYD next dial 1800-HOSS-BEER.;)

I am with you old fella, this curfew has been going far to long, as for JQ they probably needed to reposition this A/C, so decided, bugger, its cheaper to pay the fine, the airport has been there since your grandfather was born, if you don't like it move someplace else, aviation like interstate trucks should be allowed to operate 24/7 as in most civilised countries, :mad: stupid, because of spineless pollies, think of the jobs it would generate for a start. I LIVE under the flight path at OOL and don't give a ratz if they fly all night, they can compete with the hoons, police/ fire sirens,and the medical helicopters flying between hospitals, whats a few A320's and 737's to add to the mix, you get used to it like everything else, if you can't, go bush or buy some ear plugs.

YSSY certainly has been where it is for a lot longer than I've been alive, but when Mr JW Howard decided to 'share the noise' because his electorate happened to be under the North/South runways, I suddenly got a heck of a lot more late-night westerly departures than I'd every had in all of my years living north-west of the airport.

I have zero sympathy for any noise complainers who decided to live near or under the direct N/S & E/W flightpaths within the previous 20 years.

What erks me is that the 'share the noise' philosophy means that I get frequent nights where the 'beat the curfew' technique has everybody initially heading west off 34L before they get on track.

I think it is wrong to inflict noise on people late at night.

You will find that although the current residents moved in after KSA was built the houses they live in were there first. Should all those houses just be left vacant? KSA used to be a racecourse and was surrounded by suburbs long before the Wright bros were a glint in the milkmans eye. Saying they moved in there knowing is both disingenuous and selfish.

We are not talking national emergency or vital movement here we are talking late night businessmen and people going to or from holidays. Why should they get dispensation to destroy peoples sleep? Has anyone seen any of the recent research on sleep deprivation and sleep patterns in society? Dont forget we are also talking children here. What damage does interrupted sleep do to young minds and bodies? What are the effects of lack of sleep on pilots? Would you like it if the pilot of the plane you were flying in lived under a flight path with no curfew?

Not to mention stuff the airlines and their pursuit of profits at the expense of everyone else.

Aircraft (except Queenairs :uhoh:) are not noise.

I live on the flight path at YPPH where there is no curfew and though we get movements right through the night, it isn't really an issue.
In fact, if it were more consistent, we would probably notice it even less.

Only other problem is listening to the SFC BE58s "losing" an engine at the MM and the resulting howl of the "good engine" getting caned doing the missed app. Painful:eek:

How about a policy where RPT ops are required to have a flight scheduled before x time, however have till x time to get out?

How about no curfew and a surcharge of $5 for each passenger payable to tradies willing to install soundproofing to those on the flight path who want it.:p

Just remembered if Qantas can and did criminal price fixing not for one day but for a few years, they can surely break curfews without feeling any guilt, because just like the criminal case, everyone in sydney gets off scot free as usual.

All fines are just a operating expense which is tax deductible end of financial year.

Therefore legislation should be changed not to allow companies claim fines as an operating expense so they will be more careful and think twice before they break laws again the next time.

I mean what's the point of a fine as punishment when at the end of the day, it is just an operating expense that can be claimed in full end of financial year, so on one hand the judge hands down the fine and on the other hand, the company takes it all back through ATO end of June. It's a joke, there is no deterrent, just a delay.

Pyrotek
Replace 'scheduled' with 'with a taxi clearance' and that's pretty much the situation in Sydney.
(refer to "noise abatement procedures" in the Sydney DAP.)

There was a noise levy (ie tax) of around $3/jet-pax between 1995 and 2006, but did I get any assistance with noise proofing after the flight-paths were changed ??.....
(silly question)

mikkk, you do drugs by any chance?

No doubt you would complain about aircraft noise when the RFDS Kingair brings in a sick kid at 3am into YSSY, grizzle about the organ transplant flight in a Learjet in the early hours, no doubt you never need some piece of urgent freight for your business?

The whole set of rules regarding the curfew is a joke. For Rwy 16, as long as you call for taxi before 11.00pm then you can take-off. This has led to aircraft calling for taxi before they even pushback! The subsequent departure is deemed legal no matter how far past 11.00pm that it occurs.

Why?

The dispensation system is a joke as well. It seems to be purely subjective. Sometimes you get a dispensation... sometimes you don't. It can't be predicted beforehand.:ugh::ugh:

I have benefited from what capt Krem is talking about in the past.
It was all legit though. We pushed, then got a taxi clearance before 2300, then on the taxi had a fault with the aircraft. We returned, to the apron, not the bay, thus not requiring another taxi clearance (at the advice of the helpful ATC). Got the problem fixed, then taxied again and finally departed well after 2300. It was all kosher and worked well. Many thanks to the ATC involved!!

Regardless of what we think of the law or the curfew, the fact remains that there is a curfew at Sydney which the law requires to be enforced/obeyed. Thus, anyone who knowingly breaks the curfew and therefore the law must be punished. In the case of Jetstar and its fine, I can only say that the fine was insufficient - $140000 plus is f*** all compared with the cost of a night-stop and subsequent disruption. Until the curfew and law changes, the penalties should be significantly be increased, say $1m per infringement, to ensure that errant corporate cowboys comply with the law of the land.

And yes. There are strong reasons to justifiably get rid of the curfew but petty politics will always get in their way.

Don't the 146 freighter aircraft go in there every night? So a 146 passenger jet could do the same? Just like London City?

What a load of Bollocks.....All to appease a few pimply whingers who ought to be sent to Cobar or Warburton. :ugh::yuk:

I thought it was illegal for an employer to coerce an employee to break the law? How can a Captain of an RPT jet knowingly take off after the curfew period commences. Yeah I know minimas dont apply too me either because I know better. Arrogance or absolute ignorance. I know of many times where late night departures were cancelled due to curfew problems by Qantas. This has nothing to do with Qantas Operations. If we did it our arse would be kicked all over QCC by the chief pilot. Judging by the way this thread has drifted off topic, most of you don't even understand the rules and laws under which you must operate and comply with.

Easy fix - Compensate anyone living who bought or rented a house before the airport was built by a seven figure sum, tell every person who bought a house at deflated prices due to it being under the flight path to go pound wet sand up their arse and make it a 24 hour airport.

There will be none living who beat the airport in, and if there are any left they will be of venerable age and probably deaf.

The whingers have all had their houses double glazed for nothing.

For them, there is a bus leaving in 5 minutes - be under it.

Best all

EWL

Station
How about you address my arguments instead of spouting abuse?

If it saves a life I would be fine with it. Did the Jetstar plane that got fined save anyones life?

Ok, I am sure this is going to irritate a few people, but please consider how you have responded to this topic so far.

It amuses me that nearly every day I see new posts on this forum relating to pilots' poor working conditions, with sweeping statements along the lines of "management wouldn't know how to run an airline, they don't care about us pilots" etc.

Yet here we have a situation where our industry affects other people's lives, and we lash out with more sweeping statements: "I have zero sympathy..." etc.

My conclusion... pilots whine just as much as "pimply whingers who ought to be sent to Cobar or Warburton".

Probably the Skippers, if he promised the missus he would be home to mind the kids, and didn't show, I had to dodge a few saucepans for that sin.:bored:

You clowns really do not have a clue. It was obviously done because it was cheaper to pay the fine than to cancel the flight. Business is business. Who cares I would have no issue if it saved bucks and got everyone to their destination.

Well done to Jetstar, the Cap and evryone else involved.

The only way to make the fine effective would be to fine the captain.

He may have had instructions from the company to go, but he went knowing full well he was breaking the law.

I'm sure that even if the company paid the fine on behalf of the captain, he would not want a criminal conviction on his record.