Hi all,

Sorry if anyone got the wrong idea from my post, I think T Bar summed it up nicely, neither SH or LH is better we are just different, which is what I was trying to say. I didn't know that LH used to do those short sectors so I was just 'thinking out loud' as a MAYBE why Straughanie noticed a change.

I only mentioned it because a few LH crew I spoke to said they had to get used to doing this a lot faster (in 4 or 5 hours instead of having the longer stretches of service as you do on Oz-US flights for example)

I'm not saying the service is worse its just different... friends of mine who fly PER-SIN and MEL-SIN regularly kept mentioning it...

At the end of the day as said it matters how we feel in our jobs... I for one love what I do and I loved doing Singapore trips especially... even the shuttles... hard work yes but you really felt a sense of achievement getting all of that done in 12 hours :}

However things go we do need to stick together, and again I''m sorry if that post came across as having a bitch at LH crew. I wasn't. I admire the fact that you guys got thrown back into the shuttles and just got on with it because they are bloody hard work!! Wouldn't it be cool if we could spend a week doing each other's flights... I'm sure I would have a new perspective on LH from doing it and not just relying on what other crew tell me...

The main thing is, Q need to get a grip on what is important... all these silly details and peeing matches about name tags and whatnot.... who cares... as the passenger says, what matters is the crew and how they treat the pax... treat the crew nicely and the results might improve! People are not robots and no matter how much we love our jobs, if we get fed up (we are only human after all ;)) then it WILL show.... Short Haul or Long Haul or Kiwi or Thai. We are all crew and we are all human!

Who on earth do you think did ALL of Qantas's international flying before the domestics became god's gift to international flying?:rolleyes:

Also, what is it about one bar and one meal service on a 4 hour sector that could possibly be construed as challenging, for anyone ?

Speedbird, I think you missed the point of my post. I wasn't saying the service is difficult... just that it's not really 'long haul' so maybe some of the crew had their 'flow' interrupted. As in, it's different to having heaps of time like they're used to and I have observed on some of those Sin sectors that *some* crew seem like they've forgotten there's only a couple hours to go not ten and they disappear (I was flying as a pax and it was a 744)

Anyway, someone already explained the crewing/flights to me so I reworded what I was trying to say. I didn't state it as fact, it was just a suggestion as to why Straughanie may have noticed a difference in the flights they took. Only an idea so no need to get worked up :ok:

Whilst I respect and appreciate your conciliatory posts I have to say your "assumptions" demonstrate a perception of international flying that really is quite a long way from reality.

Oh and don't worry, I'm not worked up :ok:

I'd love to find out first hand what 'international flying' is like but seems Qantas don't want anyone to do that these days without working under inferior terms of employment.

As I said, as I have not flown ('proper') long haul myself I can only go by what I've seen and what other (LH and ex LH) crew tell me... my comment about crew disappearing was not meant to be a jab at all LH crew.. just that we were amused that it seemed they'd gone off a nap as 2hr out of SIN and not a drink to be had for over an hour... yes with call bells... but that could happen on any flight I admit! :}

Glad to see you're not the kind to fly off the handle... seems to happen far too much in D&G these days... :E

Anyway back to your regularly scheduled topic... ah yes Cabin Services!!

Here We Go Again
 

God this is boring.This thread is about Cabin Services and its incompetence.
This other stuff has been done to death on other threads.
Give it a rest.
Cabin Services: a 20th Century department in a 21st Century world

On a 12 hour tour of duty crew will most definitely get whatever rest they can, when they can even if their circadian rhythms are such that they are not [yet] tired.

If that doesn't make sense to you or your domestic mates see my previous post.

Half the crew would have been "on" at any one time and I don't believe for one moment that call bells would have been ignored. If that is indeed what you are implying.

Crew not doing a round of "waters" within an hour of a bar, meal, ice cream, hot choc and water bottle service??

Not a crime in my book.

little red hat!
you posts are very inflammatory! why did you have to reply to that post about the PER/SIN service.
anyone l can See that it was a setup!
you fell into the trap and started making endless baseless accusations to wards your fellow colleagues in another division.
Time to move on !

Back On Topic
 

When is Mrs. Joyce going to sack those oxygen thieving, delusional buffoons running cabin services?

That one act would do SO much to fix what is fundamentally wrong with this airline:ugh:

FFS... I'm not going to get into this again. I apologise for my original 'guess' at why the difference in service. Someone corrected me and I made a post accordingly. Obviously you didn't read it.

'Endless baseless accusations' - which would be what exactly??? That the crew buggered off on that occasion??? Well actually, yes, they did! In business class no less! the cabin was unnoccupied by ANY crew member for around an hour to the point one of the FD came out to get themselves a drink and seemed surprised no one was there... sorry if you think it was a 'baseless accusation'... all I was saying was on that occasion it happened. I also said it could happen on ANY flight. Don't take it so personally.

Hat. Coat. Leaving.

Just to throw another spin on it...I don't know if this is entirely a Qantas problem....employment policy has a lot to do with it as someone correctly pointed out above. Airlines do not employ people into CAREERS now, they employ "resource" and it is all about cost.
Many people who are employed are seduced by the "glamour" (I know, I know) of working for an airline. By the time reality sets in, they use up all their sick leave, then resign and go elsewhere..this is certainly true in the LCC model. Management see this as a good thing as they have a continual stream of new enthusiastic types wanting the glamour and willing to sacrific all for the nice uniform.
On some of the larger airlines, they don't leave, just get sourer and sourer to the detriment of the customer and the image of the airline. Management with no clue try to improve morale with floggings and obviously the effect is reversed.
So in the end, management are to blame, but sorry team, some of the blame also lies with you. A strong united workforce should have a strong united voice. Do you have one?

Strong United Workforce?
 

Reading these threads and hazarding a guess you have to say no.
Qantas management just loves it.
People like Little Red Hat fall into the trap every time.
Now pleeze back to the topic at hand

pussy.galore,
Thats right and if you think about it we don't know if Little_Red_Hat or anyone is crew at all and what their agenda is.
It's obvious that the company does not like anyone having a shot at them and could easily get someone in the office to post an item to get crew fighting with each other again.
This thread after all is all about their inefficiency and attitude towards crew and what better way to divert attention than to go back to the old 'us and them' routine and having a go at crew at the same time..
There is already one person I know of who posts on PPrune who is not crew and would have to be in the office because of the information she has let slip a few times.
Come to think about it she hasn't turned up in cabin crew threads for ages and maybe this is her in a new dress so to speak.

While we have a 'divided' FAAA this sort of SH vs LH bullsh*it will continue. Each and every time I peruse these forums I am saddend by the p*ssing contest between the professionals (for the most part) who work the cabins at Qantas.

Anyone have any ideas how we can work together to overthrow the despicable creatures at Customer Experience Delivery and their like? Reading the Cabin Crew News makes me sick of late. Just like the poor lady at Coogee Bay - I am not into being fed (useless) bullsh*t.

A unified union (heaven forbid!) may just be the answer. Can we, the members, affect that change? I realise my Domestical colleagues are pretty weak on the union front. But is it possible we crew can band together like the vote of no confidence that happened at the International FAAA in recent times?

United Workforce
 

It was tried ten years ago....and failed dismally because the Beehives attempted to make decisions regarding LH and had absolutley no idea what they were talking about.Like mixing water and oil.
The cultures are different,the history is different and therefore the mentality is different.
When flying becomes a mix and is fully integrated it may work.
Unfortunately the awards are differnt and Cabin Services would definitely not want a united workforce.
They will continue to play one against the other...successfully.
Little Red Hat falls into the trap every time and he is not alone

Ditzyboy, I agree 100% with what you wrote.

Get the unions working together, it's the only way that we can get the company to listen to the frontliners.

Surely it's the customers that suffer in the end.

Mr Joyce, if you are reading this, we have to get rid of the useless bureaucrats in the office. We need a fresh start. We don't need to be dominated by power hungry individuals who are only interested in how hi they can climb the ivory tower.

To those people in the office, remember, rooster one day, feather duster the next.

Heres a simple but unfortunate reality for the Australian cabin crew posting on this thread.

By and large, compared to your competitors in South East Asia, your service and more importantly your attitude to service is inferior.

Additionally, for the provision of the generally bad and rude attitude you have to customers, you are paid five to six times more then SQ / CX / JL / VN / MH ect.

I dont mind a LH F/A being on 70K and a CSM being on 100K, but the look of hatred on most of your faces when a passenger pushes a call button doesnt really make this money stack up against your competitors.

I totally agree that Qantas management, particularly the black widow and her scum underlings are beneath contempt. The problem is that by your poor work ethic and bad attitude you are collectively giving CC management the ammunition to replace you with low cost Thai and Chinese labour.

Rise above it and your pi$$ poor management and be what QF cabin crew used to be in the 70's - the best in the world.

Good luck

Ignore the troll.

Its just the way it is. :D:D:D

Correction.

Trolls......

Its impossible to argue with this comment. Its the reason I don't travel QF internationally any more. The airlines mentioned below are a pleasure to travel with.

sq crew are paid very similarly to qf crew when the bonus for both are thrown in. don't know where you managed to find figures that we are paid 5 times as much. look forward to you producing those statistics to back up your claim

Back to the main gist of the topic....

IF Qantas in its wisdom demands certain standards for those who choose to wear its uniform, then it has to be reasonable that it is able to enforce them. It is all a matter of discipline: mention was made of SQ and its standards. Well, let me say that they don't have to worry about enforcement as its staff are sufficiently disciplined to comply with them as that is what their employer reasonably expects. Why QF crew can;t do the same is a matter for them but if they don't like what their employer requires of them, they should simply move on.


How many times have you seen crew with

1. "extreme" haircuts,

2. various badges adoring their jackets (incl. RSL badges and other non-company stuff),

3. 'dangly' earrings which potentially could be a danger to the wearer in the event of an issue on board (ever heard of them being ripped from the lobe?)

and the list could continue.


Get with it folks or foxtrot oscar and allow willing others show how it should be done!

Haha, funny one.
On second thoughts, the way the Aussie dollar is going it shouldn't be long before AUD$1 buys SGD$0.50 and then your statement will be closer to being correct.

More bullsh!t.

Tell us "Audrey" :rolleyes:how a haircut, non company badge or non standard earring influences the customers airline experience?

Do you SERIOUSLY think that fare paying passengers gives any of these details any consideration??

If you do you truly are delusional.

Oh btw. I've no idea what constitutes an "extreme haircut" :rolleyes: but crew don't wear non company badges or dangly earrings.

The link I posted previously has our customer's thoughts on QF crew grooming.

More bullsh!t anyone?

Cabin Crew FAQ--Singapore Airlines

FIRST YEAR Singapore Airlines F/A can expect to earn $42 000 SIN dollars a year with performance bonuses often amounting to two, three or more months pay.

Current exchange rate 1 for 1 or thereabouts.

Tax rates in Singapore should be taken into account and are FAR lower than ours.

The website also suggests pay package includes medical AND dental benefits.

More bullsh!t anyone?

Oh BTW Twiggs,

last year's bonus paid to Singapore Airlines staff was 6.07 months pay.

Do you need me to do the maths for you?

Ken,What extreme haircuts?
But your right Ken because the wrong ear rings could cause a disaster and bring about the end of the world.Australian crew have long been known for being able to talk with pax and having a sense of humour unlike some asian carriers .
Twiggsy girl,what else can the office come up with.Topics like this really show who is crew and who is not.When the Aussie dollar was this rate against the greenback was the rate against the Sing dollar 50 cents.
NOoooooooo but remember it's the destinations that are important and not the money.

Speedbirdhouse,don't forget to add that SIA has seats alocated for staff travel on each aircraft unlike our company who just comes out with embargo after embargo.So you can add that to their income package as well.Also don't forget the difference in living costs between Singapore and Australia twiggsy girl because it all adds up.But as Speedbirdhouse said keep up the BS.

Twiggs,

I forgot to tell you.

Singapore Airlines [see real airline] paid an INCREASE in pay to their elite A380 crew.

Unlike QANTAS [see circus] who mandated a PAY CUT for the privelidge of working on our FLAGSHIP aircraft.

Whats it going to be like when you have 3 or 4 of them flying around the world all crewed by life, work and airline experience poor 20 somethings all earning less than a Coles check out chick??

I'll tell you.

Even worse than it is now.................:ok:

__________________

Now is not the time for experienced career Cabin Crew to migrate to the dugong.

I have a feeling that QF's hand is going to be forced..............

So they earn about the same as QCCA then, thanks for confirming that.
By the way, how many hours do they do per month to earn this?

and lets not forget
 

sq employees can expect to get a low interest housing loan (around 2%), get a descent government pension when they retire, have a great health care system which is fully covered and with last years 6 month performance bonus a junior F/A got around sin $ 60000.- last year. oh twiggs, did we mention a low tax rate as well. back to work, stop using company time!!!:ugh:
and as for hours flown a year very similar to QF LH crew-no bidding system.
one more important point. SQ has about 1/3 of cabin crew management compared to QF.

Give up !!
 

Twiggs, you are on a hiding to nowhere. GIVE UP :ugh::*

If you think the cost of living and benefits of living in Singapore are that good then move there, but what that has to do with how much per flying hour each crew member costs the company is jack ****.

P.S. if you want to fly on SQ cabin crew terms and conditions, I think the company would be more than happy to oblige you.
Why don't you suggest that to the FAAA and see if they think that is a good idea?

lock
 

I can hear a moderators padlock rattling.:D

Agree with Mohikan QF service is crap!
 

Totally agree with Mohikan

Mohikan is no troll he is just telling the truth love!

I no longer travel QF long haul as it is crap. I traveled J class SIN/SYD with QF and have traveled SIN/SYD on SQ Y class and SQ's economy class is far superior to QF business class. SQ business class is a fantastic experience far beyond QF could emulate.

I used to work for QF in the good old days and I dont really recognise the Ariline now!
As for QF short haul I think it is worse again.

I will stick with Asian carriers they know who to treat their paxs like guests not just a hinderance.

Just my two cents worth

thats why i
 

pointed out 1/3 of management and so on. i would move there tomorrow,unfortunatly they dont employ foreigners. reminds me of the inflated stats Qf management used to show crew trying to point out the differences of costs. a few specific questions by some f/a,s about cost structure was enough to shut them up quickly and move on. qf cabin crew management must be amongst the most expensive in the world by now. certainly in terms of numbers they keep multiplying.
twiggy, if you want to know more in detail, talk to some of
qf ex sq f/a,s. they can give you a very detailed picture.:oh:
Ps: i dont have anything against a company wide incentive based performance a'la SQ: everyone gets the same percentage if the company does well. however, that would sit not too well with corporate culture in Oz.

Twiggsy Girl,
This thread is about the office priorities and it's attitude to crew.We all know that you are here to put the company point of view.
This is not about SIA but if you want to hear some facts then read the above posts.
But in direct comparison to SIA management there are less management than us.
They offer more to crew such as better staff travel and incentives like financial a bonus or between 3 & 6 months pay.
Telling us that if we think Singapore is so great then move there is typical of our management.
Agree orangputi but that is a direct result of management practice in OZ.

I think it's time to ignore Twiggs because she wants this thread to be locked by the mods and will keep going until it is.

The attitude of the company management to Cabin Crew is or seems to be one of hostility...especially when any criticism of the office or it's procedure is forthcoming.

I think the main problem is that there are people in the office that justify their jobs by being belligerent.By enforcing silly and mundane things like correct position of name badges and so on does nothing for morale or the job in general.If someone is not wearing a name badge or correct uniform it is understandable but to insist on it's placing down to the 'nth' degree is another....

If the office got on with crew not only would the job be better but the product would be as well.No crew is going to give their best if they have just been hauled over the coals for some trivial matter.

Ken Borough/Canberra
 

KB is 32 years old and does not understand the difference between teaching and disciplining children and training and motivating adults.
In this he has a lot in common with Cabin Services Management.
Children and adults react differently to attempts at discipline.
Its basic psychology applied poorly by management.
They(management)are paying the price for their incompetence.
Ironically(if it is to be believed)customer surveys indicate an all time satisfaction rating for cabin crew

When discipline intensity is increased; raised to the edge of torture, the arrogant adult also behaves like the now obedient, once wayward child. Some QF competitors fully exploit this behavioural fact. Careful what you wish for, every day you are further from Kansas Dorathy.