Pacific Blue to Bali from December 1
 

Has been confirmed, just got a sale email bout 5 minutes ago from Pacific Blue, starting Bali services from 1st December, direct services from Adelaide, Brisbane and Perth

Why not virgin?? Only intl ops for pb?

I think you will find it is VB crews operating these sectors.

Virgin Blue cannot operate international services under the DJ brand

PB VB? Doesn't matter people look at the $199.

Direct service from Brisbane? sheez what a looong sector.

Skystar, you will find both VB and PB use the IATA designator DJ.

E.g.

BNE - DRW, operated by VB, Aussie crew = DJ449
BNE - WLG, operated by PB, NZ crew = DJ68

Pacific Blue could possibly fly the services out of Brisbane, Sydney & Melbourne as they already operate through those ports. However, they don't go anywhere near Adelaide & Perth at the moment & don't currently fly into Canberra. While the Canberra service will probably go through Sydney anyway & can therefore be done by Virgin to Sydney & then PB to Bali, the other two sectors would be a problem for PB. I don't see PB flying domestic sectors in Oz, & I don't see PB positioning crews & aircraft to Adelaide & Perth.

That being said, Virgin had 5 or 6 aircraft in Pacific Blue colours & Australian regos flying in Australia a year ago. These were aircraft that were supposed to go to PB, but were held by Virgin in Oz. I think that Virgin needed the capacity more at the time. One of these aircraft went to NZ when a NZ registered PB aircraft was in the hanger for maintenance. That is why the PB crews hold both NZ & Oz licenses.

That number has obviously dropped due to the expansion on the other side of the Tasman with domestic sectors & further international sectors added in the last year, but a number remain. Perhaps someone could enlighten us on exactly how many are left in Oz.

It is likely that Virgin will still have sufficent of these aircraft in Oz to fly the Bali services with an aircraft in Pacific Blue colours, although it will be a little restrictive with fleet planning. It would be likely that aircraft in Virgin colours might end up doing some of the flights, like aircraft in PB colours do some of the Polynesian Blue flying. It would depend on how close to the wind the decision makers like to sail.

I think that it is quite likely that VB crews will fly some of the sevices to Bali, if not all of them.

VB crew will operate for the initial period to when PB crew can. PB crew already told about operating POM and HON soon after that. DPS will be after that when numbers and training are sufficient.

ZH registered aircraft can operate in OZ and I am assuming therefore so can NZ based PB crew. So in time we may see PB do the connecting sectors as well. This is not so good for the VB crew but we have plenty to do already so is there much point kicking up a fuss over this?

Takingover: "It would be likely that aircraft in Virgin colours might end up doing some of the flights, like aircraft in PB colours do some of the Polynesian Blue flying."

-Yoi may find it not possible, as SQ veto the use of the the Virgin brand Internationally out of Australia. It must be Pac or Poly paintwork. Pac & Poly aircraft regos exist on all 3 AOCs PB NZ/PB Oz & Poly and so can be interchanged readily. (Not sure if the veto applies to the Indian Ocean though?)
Last count 11 in Oz were that paintwork under VH rego, but that was back with a VB fleet of 50. Not sure what the mix is now.

Yes, ZK can operate in Oz, much like the 73-freighters, as well as PB crew being VH & ZK endorsed. All that has merged into one theatre of operation now, much like the VB crew flying PB routes currently... just when PB were desperately short of crew and an upgrade of T&Cs sort by their crew... :hmm:

PB Crew
 

VB will probably only be allowed to use PB painted aircraft only on bali runs and VB painted planes with special permission. I say this because the annoucement states that PB is flying to Bali, not VB. I assume then that the flying rights obtained from Indon government are for PB not VB. If they want to use VB painted planes then special permission will be needed each time from Indon government. This is a hassle I think VB would prefer to minimise. Just ask Valuair and Jetstar. Because Jetstar is not allowed to fly from SIN to Jakarta, they still use Valuair painted aircraft. This means those aircraft are pretty much restricted to these routes only. If for maintenance or other reasons the Valuair painted planes cannot do the run to Jakarta, Jetstar need to get special permission to take a Jetstar plane. Quite a hassle when dealing with Indonesian bureacracy.

VH or ZK rego planes can fly in and out of Australia, as Pacific Blue is registrered, AOC in NZ and AUS.

No Virgin Blue aircraft liveries will travel outside of the Australian territory, unless they are non rev flights, humanitarian services. There are plenty Pac Blue VH aircraft livery operating to cover any shortfall.

How can one airline tell another what it can and cant do?

Plan is to operate VH tails, PB paint, VB Crew. Operation is a wetlease from VB to PB.

All this happens *If/When VB get international charter AOC*. Hopefully by Dec1.

If not, then ZK tail, PB Paint, PB Crew.

nomorecatering "How can one airline tell another what it can and cant do? "

Singapore Airlines have been partners with Sir Richard Branson in Virgin Atlantic since 1999 and hence have a say in the Virgin brand.

I heard that up until last week, VB pilots were operating these services on a wet lease basis. Yet the company has changed its mind and PB crews will operate these services. Anyway, time will tell. I think V would love all its crews on contracts. I think this is the begining of the end!

my info is that PB will operate to Bali. Judging from the departure and arrival times, the Perth crews will be overnighting in Bali. The other flights have a 7-8 hour layover. Poor buggers, beach but no bintang....!

Octane

Octane, which Perth crews are these?
The crew doing DPS flights are Brisbane based crew. Overnights would be either Per or Adl at this stage.

Using -800s or a re-painted -700? Don't the latter have better range (and hence more uplift capability on the longer BNE/ADL sectors)?

There are only a handful of HGW 700's, the 90% of the others are tin tubes with no guts with a rubber band ... there would great weight restrictions...

Garuda
 

In today's Jakarta Post, the following story...looks like Brisbane market will be staurated pretty quickly

Indonesian flag carrier Garuda Indonesia will reopen direct flights between Bali and the Australian city of Brisbane from 13 December

I hope the cabin crew are prepared for it, DPS on a 737 in December is sheer hell, especially the longer sectors such as ADL & BNE. Good luck to them, I don't envy them a bit. Expext a LOT of difficult hand luggage, especially trying to stow difficult items on the -800 and the queue to the loo's will be a problem, they are never ending. Saying that, well done to Virgin for seeing a lack of carriers servicing that route and going in. Not too many people are happy to fly Garuda these days but the aircraft of choice for DJ would certainly persuade me to the opposition, JQ, only because of aircraft, a 737-800 v A330-200, needs no argument. Anyway great to see Bali happening again no matter who flies there, at least there is a choice again.

air doris,

JQ is a A320 ex BNE with a stop in DRW for three hours. Not an A330.

6h30m stick on the 737 direct, only about 30-45mins more than BNE-PER. About the same as APW-SYD which VB/PB already fly. 6.30..

Capped @ 140 pax (like APW) so hand luggage won't be a problem. :ok:

An additional reason for the capping on the APW flights is that row 1-15 are allocated as A,C and D,F due to guest size. Of course this is changes per each flight.

International hand luggage these days with LAGS is not as bad as it previously was - people tend to pack the kitchen sink underneath.

The crew would suffer more hand luggage issues on a 5pm SYD/MEL service then they will on a BNE/DPS.

Sorry to be a wet blanket, but Pac Blue will be as popular as herpes on the Bali run, as is JQ.

I am talking about the died in the wool surfers and Baliophiles who enjoy Garuda's full service and lenient handling of surfboards/golf clubs etc. as well as full and friendly service. No put down to DJ customer service level intended or implied there.

Garuda is offering excellent fares at the moment, adding capacity and actually making very good dollars ex Australia. As I have already experienced with SLF on Pac Blue out of NAN, the no plane - too bad attitude will not cut it on DPS either, particularly when you have to pay for everything other than the cramped seat you have already purchased.

I will be recommending the Garuda bird I am afraid, as locals have bag transfer ex QF from here, regional NSW and QLD and can leave their hands out of their pockets for the International flight sector.

Does anyone else sense a "populate or perish" mindset creeping in at DJ?

Some of the recent decisions such as DPS Internationally with 737 equipment and MQL with the jungle bunny do not seem to make a lot of sense.

MQL seems like a Rex hunt, so to speak and is a very big negative for the port. The last thing a regional port needs is jet equipment coming in over viable full service. Of course the "town fathers" never see this as they are all looking for any point of self gratification in the eyes of their constituents. DPO is no different. At least Rex is rearing on its hind legs and annoyin DJ. Well done Jed Wokka and the crew.

Best all

EWL

Where PB & J* have a big advantage is people are able to book flights from the comfort of their own home. Garuda you still need to go through one of their ticket offices or a Travel Agent. Some regulars would prefer the convenience of booking it at home.

PB will operate this route flying

BNE-DPS-PER

PER-DPS-BNE

Is that PB Crew or Pb a/c with wetleased VB crew? Last we were told is it's VB Crew on a PB a/c?

I can't see PB having the crew in Dec to start straight away but they will be fairly keen to get PB crew on it asap.

Bris based crew.

No way PB (NZ) would have the manpower to add all the flights and aircraft that are coming on line between now and the end of the year... BNE-DPS, ADL-DPS, PER-DPS, BNE-POM, BNE-HIR, SYD-AKL, APW-BNE, add BNE-WLG and the SYD-VLI and MEL-AKL that just started.

A quick look at the schedule will see that the aircraft rotations are alot more complex than that, with ADL thrown in.

I think you will find that these a.c will orginate from New Zealand with the crew o/n in Bali.

Makes sence, cheap accomodation, cheaper cabin crew

Brisbane based crew, at least for the first 12-18 months.

from the horse's mouth, not the other end.

Oh great, so now if you want to go to Bali from SYD or MEL you have to operate domestically then swap over onto an international flight.

What a pain!
Jesus H......it pains me to say it but I would rather fly with Jetstar!

Great time to be starting amongst the beginning of a credit crisis and/or possible recession.

Have to agree with you East West Loco.

The business is able to get a foothold in the market while other operators are pulling out, yet the business has to be able to sustain losses until the market turns around while waiting for the yield to pick up. Tough call. If the strategy comes off - all will be hailed as hero's; if not 5000 employees will be updating their CV's.

The mantra from the VB board I believe was to "get back to basics". Extending into unknown territory is not living up to their own expectation!

the extension into WA with the E-Jets shall be interesting to watch as this took everyone by surprise, in particular the KTA market where they have gone double-daily straight up and don't appear to have a resource contract as yet...

Topend3 my sources tell me that you need to ask more of your mining mates or perhaps they haven't been told yet by their bosses. Perhaps EWL can look into how many seats are actually left for sale on these flights. I believe that the loads will be quite good straight off the bat.

mate happy to be proved wrong. i just get the impression everyone who whines up here about no competition are the same people that won't vote with their feet and support an alternative. My seats are booked so lets hope many more follow suit and if they have picked up some of the smaller contractors then thats superb...the range of $99 and $159 fares still available on the website within the first fortnight of launch tends to suggest otherwise.

VB asking F/O's if they want a command at PB. Don't worry, they will get the crews, and the basings will be BNE and SYD on PB pay and conditions. I reckon its a sure bet. If the boys at VB are strong enough to influence these Gen Y to not take up a PB command, maybe, and just maybe, VB pilots will eventually do some international flying. If not, its the begining of the end.

All the cards are falling into place. The management at VB have been testing the waters for quite a while now. Secondments to PB, VAUS contracts, now F/O's who want a quick command can go an help set up PB to become VB's Jetstar. Its happening, and its happening now. This has been in the pipe line for a very long time. PB to BG, is like Impulse to GD. Its a sleeping menace that is very soon to rear its ugly head. Boys look out, its going to get ugly. And a usual, the pilots will allow this to happen and self destruct.:sad::sad::sad::sad::sad::sad: