I think this will be a Full PB setup as VB are not allowed to fly INTL under the VIRGIN name, due to the agreement they have with Virgin Atlantic

Arrangement is between SIA and Virgin Group for the international side of things. Aircraft will have Pacific Blue titles , Australian registered flown by VB crews.

So with VH tails who's getting the Australian Intl AOC to put them on- VB or PB???

PB Australia have the AOC

I take it's VB crews on VB conditions?

coaldemon - as of a few days ago VB now have a CASA Area AOC to fly in ICAO areas Y (Australia), N (NZ + big chunk of South Paicifc), A (PNG + Melanesia), and W (Indonesia, Singers, Malaysia).

VH or ZK
 

As long as the tube has "Pacific Blue " on the outside it doesn't matter if it is VH or ZK.;)

If it's ZK then the crewing costs are ,at a guess, about 2/3rds of a VH aircraft

slice, ordinarily yes, but in this case it's 3/3 :8

I have heard the basings for PB DEC will be a BNE base! The company is also threatening if pilots do not take up excess annual leave there will be redundancies. The next line will be that if pilots do not take PB or VAUS positions on substandard pay and conditions, you will be made redundant. You can read between the lines on this one. They have the master plan and there is always more than one way to skin a cat. Vigins J* is about to be born and the Credit Crisis is the pertfect excuse to get the ball rolling.

Where is the Union whilst all this is going on. They can tell people to Vote NO at VAus but they can't advise VB pilots to not take up DEC's at PB!

Its truely all over for Pilots pay and conditions in this country. I bet in years to come, more and more pilots will leave to head overseas, just like the ATC guys, because pay and conditions will be so S^&T that its not even worth working in your home country. And we all just stand back and let it happen. What a joke!:(:(:(:(

Looks like a good old conspiracy theory. Excellent.

Limited population/customers=Limited number of airlines in the area=Limited requirement for pilots=Limit on the employment conditions.

Hence why if you plug in 'overseas', like Europe, you can see how the equation pans out

Time will tell coaldemon, time will tell!

Hope your high enough on the start date list my friend, otherwise it's Vaus or PB for you! Do you like Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch or Sydney, take your pick! And the clause will be "a position back at VB will only be available if a position becomes vacant after a minimum of 30 months". :ok::ok::ok:

All the aircraft are going to PB and VAUS, today the 737 fleet at VB will be the biggest it's ever been in the history of the company! Time will tell and I hope I am wrong.

Dirty Deeds-I couldnt agree more,and when the shi! hits the fan and the industry is fu#ked,rest assured, the current leader of the AFAP would have silently retired (to a comfy fund based on the wage of a 727 captain from years gone by).At the end of the day we have followed the advice of the union, but only have ourselves to blame.We believed them.The upper echelon of the AFAP have have set up the industry for a period of untold shafting and dissapointment for many years to come....What amazes me is the die hard AFAP advocate that bails people up in the car park,questioning why you have left the AFAP-just because there hanging out for the golden hand shake,all of 20 grands worth of mbf fees-You tossers,wake up and look at the big picture-As you have so eloquently expressed youreslves elsewhere-grow some Ball$-Look at the Future-sad thing is-your the ones that fuc##d it.Yes, I have grown some balls and stood up for myself-In fact it was very simple- I joined another union!

Parc-Ratstej

What an angry young man

I guess it is easy stand on the side lines and criticise all sides of the pilot’s representatives - AFAP-VIPA-AIPA.

The act of joining a union is a start but unless the MEMBERS actually initiate some action, get involved with the day to day running of whatever union takes their fancy and participate then it will ultimately deteriorate into another slanging match of who has done naught!

Your criticism of the 'die hard' AFAP advocates maybe valid but walk in my shoes (and his) first before you become the doyen of Industrial Relations in Australian Aviation.

You indicate you have left the AFAP, joined the VIPA and would be more than willing to join AIPA.

Perhaps that famous Y Generation characteristic of 'I want it now - I deserve it now - give it to me now' is part of the problem as well.

My generation had a characteristic.......I think it was called loyalty.


I'm glad you now walk taller for your new growth spurt!

ad-astra-your points are noted and yes I am angry,Im also 40 years of age so I dont think the gen y tag is suitable.I was extremelly active in the AFAP for 6 years in a past life,I was a paid member for 13 years and yes I have joined another union.I totally agree that individual members are required to assist and provide input for a union to become an effective tool,however it also requires confident leadership from the top and not stunned silence in a time where companies are out to screw each and every one of us.The honor of leading an organization such as the AFAP or any union should be earnt and over extended periods of time new faces and personalities need to be introduced,you could call it a succession plan-I dont see that happening.VIPA may or may not be the answer but one thing is for sure-the formation of VIPA can only help each and every one of us,Why you ask-because at the very least it will make the AFAP sharpen up there act.VIPA hasnt caused division amongst the troops either-that was a side affect of the past two eba's and the way in which they were sold to the troops.

One things for sure,I certainly have no intention of harrasing and confronting individuals over there choice of union representation-some of these guys need to take a step back.They look desperate,they act desperate and only harm there own cause,Sure theve been through some tough times, but hey-havn't we all?

Parc-Ratstej - I think we agree on more points than we disagree.

The AFAP has certainly not achieved the success that we as Professional Pilots had hoped and expected.
Looking around though I struggle to see a suitable role model in any of the other Professional Pilot representative groups - AIPA, JPC, TWU (NJS), VIPA or any of the International Pilot bodies. They are all struggling with the new age of LCC's and a whole new set of industrial relations rules that have moved the goal posts forever.

We seem to be in agreement that we will only succeed if we are truly a representative Union/Federation

Alas the current fractionalization of our 'representative might' will have us at the mercy of airline managements for the foreseeable future.

I also am reticent to walk away from the AFAP after 25+ years as my MBF refund will be in the order of $50K -$60K. For those pilots who choose to commit to the MBF it is a very worthy organization one that repays its members for loyalty.

That same refund is and will be available to yourself or any other pilot who remains with the MBF for 20 years continuously (or in total).
Sad thing is that most of the younger guys I fly with cannot comprehend that degree of commitment to the industry let alone the MBF.

The principles of the AFAP (and just as importantly the MBF) were well founded. It is a shame that history has not been learnt that what we have now is worth holding on to, rather than starting afresh.

Perhaps I was a bit touchy on reading your 'appraisal' of our industry -

"Dirty Deeds-I couldn’t agree more, and when the shi! hits the fan and the industry is fu#ked,rest assured"


- and your belief that all before you (myself included) are responsible for the state that the aviation industry is in now.

"You tossers,wake up and look at the big picture-As you have so eloquently expressed youreslves elsewhere-grow some Ball$-Look at the Future-sad thing is-your the ones that fuc##d it"


That we will have to disagree on!

We all work towards the same goal.

How about bringing the topic back round to the actual "Pacific Blue to Bali from December 1 " no union issues

Has it been confimed will they use Australian crew in Brisbane, or Pacific Blue crew

Australian CC on wet lease from VB, and PB pilots. This was changed from VB pilots.

kitty blue as of yesterday it was still vb tech crew but some uncertainty on POM crewing but as it stands with the shortage of victims for pb it could end up vb crew on pb conditions (vb fo's upgrading on pb conditions):eek:

I am not sure where they will get VB fo's from to upgrade on PB conditions.

Suitable ones have either had a go at command, and are now in the sin bin for 12mths, or will take an E jet command (heaps of those available) on lots more coin than PB conditions.

Anyone who goes for the offer of PB conditions (current VB pilots) would have rocks in their head - and will be assisting VB's master plan of reducing term and conditions.

And what makes you think there will be any shortage of those??

Any shortage of what??

If you read it properly, I am talking about current VB FO's accepting PB conditions for a 737 command. There may be a shortage of those. Anyone ready for a command would most likely take an Ejet command, and earn heaps more than a 737 command on PB terms.

Anyone who goes for the offer of PB conditions (current VB pilots) would have rocks in their head - and will be assisting VB's master plan of reducing term and conditions.

Any shortage of these

Not only will the VB pilots taking up positions with PB severly undermine current PB pilots, and therefore cause a great deal of animosity between the two groups. Accountants beware - I do see a link between low morale, disengaged staff and perhaps not operating the aircraft as cost effectively as possible.

It's a curly issue really, as now PB pilots are part of the VB group they are equally entitled to apply for command (and other) opportunities at VB/VA. However it would be very unlikely they would get one with the start date PB pilots have in the VB group. But all things being equal VB pilots are entitled to apply for opportunities at PB even though it is a hard one to swallow. A bigger issue is the ongoing use of VB pilots on VB wages which is avoiding layoffs but costing the company. Pb could solve problems easily by just raising the Capt's salary. I'm guessing a few JC guys will be over soonish anyway.

I don't think many VB guys applied anyway and I suspect the ones that do will get their hours and leave.

As an offside my uneducated opinion on VA - I would pull the pin and "delay" launch for 2 yrs. Sell the 777 slots and recoup some of the start ups costs. I definitely do think not think this is the time for expansion even though VA is a valid business case.

Was told today that the VB aircraft operating the DPS services are all 737 800's in Pacific Blue livery

VH VOQ Peta Pan
VH VOX Missy Mainlander
VH VUM Brindabella Blue
VH VUN Madelaide

Also told that all PB Denpaser sectors except BNE-DPS, ADL-DPS PER-DPS, will offer FREE Foxtel TV Live to air.
The $9.90 looks like it will only be charged on the outgoing sectors above, , not inbound to Australia.

It also seems that no seating configuration / seat pitch will be altered on these aircraft

why? i thought the jc guys were on the same or better money? also thought they were home more.

Doubt the Foxtel will work all the way there. The movies would be good to inlcude in the ticket price but they dont like doing things like that at VB.

wirgin blew : Do you want to put your house on that :ok:

No doubt the L2A is free because they cant guarantee the signal. Movies will be shown at $9.90, pay per view

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Foxtel operate off the Optusnet satellite?

If it does, it shouldn't have any trouble, especially at altitude, all the way up into Thailand. We were utilising that satellite up the other end of Indonesia, admittedly close to the horizon @ ground level.

mmmmm,,,,,off to Bali after the 'execution' of those cowardly bastards.

Are helmets and flak jackets checked or carry on luggage on VQ?

Back to the Live2Air. Does VOX even have it installed? Going to be along trip with nothing if your flying BNE-DPS.

VOX has live TV installed.

VOX does not have live to air. A/C without live to air will are fitted with Digi Players. A portable entertainment system of sorts.