Keg et al,

Finally I'm gunna say it. Fine, if the conditions aren't good enough, don't apply. I know you will say "I'm Not." well fine again - please stop telling everyone else how bad it is. That is what is on the market at the moment. Some will take it some won't.

Just sick of hearing - "what no food on board" GREAT - best thing could ever happen to me being forced to bring my own healthy lunch (like 90% of the Oz workforce) rather than being lazy yet again and eating the oil and cholestorol laced massed produced slop.
- "what, pay for own parking" - okay, that is definitely a slide back, but in isolation $70 per month salary sacrificed ain't a Prince's sum. Not enough to stop one taking the job.

Granted - there are some cuts here - but if that is the difference between making the airline succesful, then so be it. I can accept it.

If you are happy in your job, GREAT, I truly mean it, i don't want to see guys miserable, but please stop telling everyone else why they should be miserable.

Qantas may be our last true legacy carrier, but they are a pack of C--ts. Not the pilots, cabing crew, lames, baggies etc - I mean the Taleban arseholes running the show. (by the way - I'm not going to tell guys why they shouldn't take a job there)

..........Tiger crew paying for the once feebies !:-)
......seems to me that in order to be cost effective & be a 'player' in the dog eat dog airfare war something has got to give..............they can't skimp on fuel, they can't skimp on maintenance but they can keep costs down where possible & that's the human element of the operation.
If you knock back a potential job 'cause of minor things like this then you are a very bitter & twisted person & will be watching yr mates fly overhead whilst you still pay for yr coffee at ground level !:)

Just out of curiosity what employer outside of the airlines serves food to their employees during working hrs? None that I can think of other than perhaps the mining industry & that's mainly 'cause of circumstances.
Still I don't agree with paying for some of the essentials but like I said, something has got to give !:)
No doubt some here will jump up & down about what I've posted but we are living in totally different times these days where the 'user pays' concept is running rife !

Capt Wally

Hey Wally, seems we were writing the same stuff at the same time.

GNADENBURG - mate you are obviously a Mr Money-is-everything type of guy. Well save it all buddy - you are gunna need it for the lung transplant in 20 years time due to the HK cesspit. You do put so many posts on here about conditions back in OZ and how bad they are. Okay we have the message, you love Hk, CX and the HK air. By the way - are you still trotting round the airport with your cap on thinking CX is the bees knees?

Trevor is right! The Taleban is taking over at Qantas.

Type "ISLAM" into the FMGC on a QF A330.

Hey Trevor. Is it true Tiger pilots will have to buy their own water?

Trevor, Wally, I just love the concept of 'bring your own lunch' and how the airline is somehow doing you a favour by doing that. Personally I like the fact that a 'quality' airline feels it's important for it's crew to be adequately nourished and hydrated during flight and that this 'cost' is considered to be part of an airline business. It's got nothing to do with bringing your own meal 'like 90% of the rest of the country' and everything to do with being able to store/transport food appropriately. So with that in mind, let's consider the following.

When I sign on at 0500 in MEL after over-nighting just how am I supposed to have brought my own lunch with me? How do I do that for the four-five day domestic and Tasman trips typical of QF 767 and 737 drivers? I sign on in Sydney and pack a ham and salad sandwich, how is it kept hygienically cold until I want to eat it at lunch or dinner time? I'm doing MEL-PER-MEL with an aircraft change in PER and wanting to take some fruit with me, can I do this without breaching WA quarantine rules?

So sure, it's great that you get to pack your own lunch.

Launch code Harry

No need for me to prove anything. Apparently some J* staff boarding late (after check in), causing disruptions and then demanding to get off. Aerocare staff simply recognised them from working at the airport.

Some pretty nasty damage being caused to the interiors also and given that there are only four new aircraft, the impact is all the more pronounced.

Interesting that our (QF) short haul aircraft are not subject to the same...ticket price=customer standards?

Exactly the point why you SHOULDN"T take your own lunch.

I cannot believe that people are so naive. Most office work places have fridges, microwaves, etc where you can reheat or store food correctly. When you make your lunch at 0400 how can be sure it is in adequate condition to eat 7-8 hours later?

If Tiger have a diversion or pilot incapacitation due food poisoning, I think you will find work safe people and probably CASA (if they had any intestinal
fortitude ) will be all over them like a rash.

...."TTL" must be a mind reading 2 crew thingy !:):)
......Keg I hardly think that any airline would expect their crew to go unnourished. The food is there supplied by the LCC airline such as Tigers, there's no need to prepare it in advance for say an early start if you don't wish to or starve for that matter it's just that you have to pay for it!:) That's the issue I am refering to here not the fact that there is nothing available from the employer.

I've worked in various industries over the years mostly shift work & have managed to plan ahead where food is concerned.

You where 'spoon' fed when a baby, now I think you are responsible for yr own keep as a grown up!:)
The words "you" here are generic not aimed at any one person, I say that before someone goes off on a tangent here !:)

Capt Wally:)

Trevor.

Settle down mate! You have the wrong bloke!

Like you, I don't have a cap. :}

Trevor,

Isnt Tiger a bit of risk for long term employment? A bit riskier than your job in Dragon dont you think?

Keg

1. yes I do have to be adequately nourished and hydrated - but guess what, I am a big boy and I am old enough to bring a bottle of water - just like I did 25 years ago as an electrician. Its not that hard.

2. Yes, signing on at 0500 after an overnight yadda yadda - yes, impossible to bring your own lunch. BUT the comments are about Tiger where thre are no overnights. So whilst the argument does apply in your case, it doesn't apply in the context of this thread.

Neville Nobody

What a load of twaddle. So I make a sandwich and a salad, and in 7 or 8 hours it may make me very sick. What a very long bow you are drawing. Are you risking your kids by sending them off to scholl with a packed lunch.

Gnadenburg
My very humble apologies - yes I think I got the wrong guy.

Flashart
No!

Again I cannot believe the naivety going on here.

Firstly your kid's time frame is only say 4 hours as opposed to 6+. Secondly the kid gets food poisoning the kids has a lie down and goes home.

Captain get food poisoning keels over, you have just put the lives of the pax at a greater risk. You now have a single pilot airliner for the sake of some food.

The guy in the office block can walk down the street and get food from many vendors. Anyone who suggest that taking your own food to work for shiftworking pilots is a good idea really has rocks in their heads.

Stop speaking euphemistically - the real problem is the run down of conditions. just come out and say it and stop the trash of suggesting that taking your own food to work is gunna kill you. What rubbish.

Munt - sounds like you hate life as a pilot. All those things you have said are such horrible crosses to bear.

Updating having seen in black and white (and I believe all are on same):
- retainer $112,000, flight pay $73.00 per hour, super on yearly gross, $30,000 bonus after 3 years, nothing extra; left seat.

I use "retainer" as I feel the pay structure makes a lot of diffrence regarding super.
If you have base + overtime (pornstar/VB??) then it is quite possible your yearly pay could only ever be your base (OK unlikely but in theory not impossible.)
If you have retainer + flight hours unless you never fly (luxury! :O ) your "pay" will always be a combination of retainer plus flight.

Just a thought.

My understanding:
- car parking flat $70 per month at ML Airport staff carpark;
- no food but can buy cabin food with 40% off (same as pornstar??)
- to join require type rating (at own expense if required), day 1 of Tiger (ground schools etc) start on retainer pay, when lose safety F/O on line training pay becomes retainer + flight pay;
- 25 days annual leave plus substitute public holidays (11?) so 36 days annual leave.

Expectations:
- 4 aircraft now, another next month, next delivery dates of ordered aircraft October '08;
- looking for a couple (?) of extra lease aircraft if available;
- aiming to fly pilots at the max legal (great theory but means 950 +/- hours per year reasonable for calculations);
- expecting/hoping experienced captains from Vietnam Airlines/Dragon etc will seriously consider after things settle down and "ramping up" begins;
- intention is to roster max hours per day so expect double OOL (8 hrs) or PER (7 hrs) or DRW (8 hrs); at worst MCY and HBA (6 hrs). Of course always will be "bits and pieces" of flying, unavoidable.

Present cancellations difficulties with cabin crew numbers rather than tech crew.
SQ apparently are allowing 3-5 years for airline to become established/self sufficient, after that?????????
OOL a "definate possible" for base, others "maybe possibles."

The pay claimed to be better than pornstar/VB - yes/no/maybe??

Cheers :ok:

Trevor,
I am curious how you fit enough water for a days flying into a 90ml container so you can fit it into a 500ml clear plastic bag to get it through security??!:ugh:

Not been home or to Europe for a while?:zzz:

The point about all these discussions about in some way petty things is that companies are pushing the limits in screwing staff compared to established carriers and some people will do anything for a job.

As somebody said, "the market will decide!"

Lets hope the market grows some balls! QF pay is the market standard here, as is SQ regarding 380 pay [744 + 7%]!!!:ok:

If the US$ goes back to 47c/A$ then there will be a huge exodus away, enjoy it while it lasts! Alternatively EK etc will have to raise salaries / move away from US$ contracts.

:D

Well said.

On the question of meals. lunches, offices etc

Most office staff only work during set hours where the only meal required is lunch which is an easy one to prepack if you want, and which is well suited to buying takeaway.

A past employer of mine, who had numerous work sites had the policy of no staff cafes in areas where there were a good number of food outlets, but to have them in sites where there was a limited number. They did not want staff a remote sites spending large amounts of time driving to the nearest decent cafe or coffee shop.

Also my personal view is that from an airline's perspective it would be cost effective to provide pilots with meals, simply because many pilots value it a lot, and its more visible to say you include meals than to say your package is an extra $1300 a year.

Also does an LCC operating with many flights at odd times of the day, a tight turnaround, and 3 plus hour sectors like Mel- Perth want pilots ducking off to buy lunch on a 25 minute turnaround or feeling grumpy because they are hungry or only had snack food for lunch?

UNOME,

Remarks like the ones you have posted are ridiculous.How many Jet* staff do you think are willing to cause criminal damage to the aircraft of another airline ? If they did and were caught they would certainly have no backing from the company.They would be on their own just as you are when you make libelous statements such as the above.
I have passed on your post to the appropriate people at J*.

With this wrecking the interior bizzo I cant believe even the
lo-cost pax cattle would turn there pens into pig stys. Still if
anyones ever taken the Southern Aurora...

Capt Wally you say they are not skimping on maintenance but Aerocare baggage handlers are doing the pre departure walkround. Industry leading stuff.