Qantas Service Circus
 

Blackberries are to be provided to CSMs.
Five year old technology and not 3G.
The infamous "horeshoe" on 747s is to be transferred from C Zone to E zone.
Lets upset 150 people instead of 60.
Water is now to be offered immediately after takeoff...further pushing back the commencement of the meal service..making it later and later before pax(and in particular children) are to eat.
The introduction of Premium Economy will put a greater strain on the already stretched manpower.
This is"ad hoc"management at its worst...jumping in six directions at once.
Doing a "lot" poorly instead of getting the basics right.
CC will be further disengaged...... if that is possible.
The quality of people coming into Cabin Crew ranks has declined markedly over the last few years.
The equivalent of Centrelink in NZ is being used to recruit crew.
Promote onboard managers from within the AKL base is absolutely astonishing in its stupidity.
A totally independant base that self monitors.A recipe for total disaster.
For those of you who find QF Cabin Service lacking....its about to get a whole lot worse!
Never let a domestic hostie design an international product!!!!

what is a horeshoe???

Get It Right Folks
 

It has been said before elsewhere.
The service/tranport industry requires 2 things to succeed
(a)Happy motivated staff
(b)Provide them with resources to do their job.
Qantas fails miserably on both counts.Once extra capacity becomes available and travellers have a choice once again, Qantas is going to get creamed.
Qantas was once an industry leader now it just plays catchup...poorly
Sorry to say this but the Australian National icon is in its final death throes.Its being killed from within.
Tooths brewery died from similar management mentality and TCN 9 is also going the same way.
Never in its history has Qantas been so roundly criticized.
A bloody tragedy.....who is responsible?
The King of all Illegitimate Rodents....one G.R Dixon

Horseshoe
 

If you are sitting in the FG seats where the "horseshoe" is in operation you will receive your meal and drink approximately 20 to 30 minutes after your fellow travellers seated in the D and E seats.
Boring if you are sitting in the D and E seats but definitely not boring if you sitting in the F and G seats and are hungry.
The horseshoe measure is being relocated from C Zone to E Zone
to apparently appease Frequent Flyers who have had to endure this treatment for years
Introduced as a labour and cost saving measure and has never been successful from a pax point of view.
But hey ...who cares about the passenger in QF management? ...no one.
QF = Animal Farm.

I dont even know why I am interested in this, but I ask anyway,

So what you are saying with this horseshoe thing is that you dont have a trolley going down each isle at once? You have one trolley that alternates between the left and right side of the aircraft, am I right?

If I am, no wonder pax are pissed off!

Quote-

"From my experience it is to compensate for the galley being at door 2."
---------
Ah no.
The service flow operates in this fashion because QF don't have enough onboard staff to provide efficient service delivery.
---------
SOPs,

yes you are correct and on our current "Kangaroo" configs this situation effects C zone which is the smallest.
Transfer the situation to E zone and you manage to piss off the largest zone of passengers onboard.
Pure genius.

Lack Of Teamwork
 

Hey MN 63 come down the back sometime and mix with the real workers in this airline.
Stop talking about stuff you know nothing about.
"The horseshoe compensates for the galley at door two"...what a load of rubbish...Pratt!

What an amasing service concept.....not!!!!

Check The Facts
 

MN 63 has a long neck so he must be a goose...was not my theory but one expressed to me by many crew numerous times.Havent bothered to check but hey it sounds okay.
But gee...is the moon really made of green Jarlsberg?

Well despite all this; I traveled to New Zealand and Australia with my boys aged 12, 6 and 3 a few months back and the service was absolutely superb. We went through LAX down to Auckland stayed for a few days and skied down at the national parks, then went over to Sydney stayed for a few weeks up near Port Macquarie and came back. It was flawless!

Bags arrived on-time and without damage, kids loved the food, the flight attendants were extremely caring and we had a great time.

No question about it. It was actually even better than the last time we went down.

Funny but I don't remember a horseshoe in 'E' zone but wait for the procedures for the A 380!!!!!!!

As far as crew goes wait for the supreme galley designs put forward by experts who flew on a 737 or not at all.

I remember one of the visitors 'counselling' a crew member after a pax complaint and when they were told it was because of the horseshoe asked
"What is a horseshoe?"

It's good to be managed (if you could call it that) by people who have more experience in answering phone calls or managing check outs in a supermarket than flying.:yuk:

SOPS - I'll ask again for both of us (and I don't really know why I care, either, haha!)

What is a HORSESHOE?

Kiwichick,When QF first bought the 747 it was their first aircraft with twin aisles.In those days before business class was thought of they had 4 meal carts which understandably started at each corner of Y/C for the meal service.

When the bean counters started to do what they do best this reduced the crew numbers.This meant that instead of 8 crew in Y/C there was 6 which means that you can't operate 4 meals carts at once because QF carts are operated by 2 crew.

The problem created therefore was where best to allocate the 3 carts.It was decided by the brain surgeons in the office that now you started with 2 at the back of 'E' zone and one at the front which when it got to door L3 did a 'U' turn or horseshoe and went back up the front on the opposite side to which it started.

This means the pax at L3 who had read their menu and could see the meal service and had decided to have chicken or beef or whatever saw the meal cart turn away just when it got to them.To make matters worse it took the crew from the back and the horseshoe crew some time to get to the pax who were watching others eat and were thinking WTF.

Basically it's robbing Peter to pay Paul,if you get what I mean.I hope this clears it up for you.

My question though is if you don't really care why did you ask the question?

I left said airline about 9 years ago, yes disgruntled and promising myself never to fly with them again. I've been saying it for years and I know alot of people on here having been saying the same thing. That is, the only thing bringing pax back is the safety record. God forbid our airline has a major "you know what" and we all pray it never happens. But, if it does this airline will be finished. :(

In the numerous times I have flown with them there is only once I can remember that I can say "Hey, that was a great flight with good service".

The rest were terrible. Here are just a couple:
On a flight to Christchurch I remember on climb out of Sydney the seatbelt light went out the crew brought around the light snack then retired to the galley.......for the rest of the flight, curtains drawn. People were hitting the call buttons every couple of minutes with no response and having to go to the galley and ask for drinks. Absolutely disgusting and true.

Two months ago I took my family on a trip to Europe, wife and two kids.
Syd-HKG and HKG-SYD legs were Qf. Trip out, very ordinary nothing special. So boring in fact I barely remember it (and no there was no booze consumed by myself, maybe I should have had some come to think of it).
Anyway, our homeward bound leg. Are you ready for this? 744 aircraft, unhappy and sour cabin crew (what crap uniforms), on take off at HKG (I was positive we weren't getting off the ground, longest take off run I've ever experienced, yes it was hot, I know) the main gear left the runway and the pride of the fleet vibrated (like a giant had taken a jack hammer to the fuselage) for about 15 seconds. In all my flying I have never experienced anything like this and it scared the absolute crap out of me (and I love flying). Imagine driving your car doin about 80 and hitting consecutive speed humps one after the other, that's what it felt like.

Now just remember I had my kids on this flight and to top it off. The inflight entertainment system failed at the beginning of the flight lol and remained out for the entire flight. So it was up to me and my wife to keep my young kids occupied. Unbelievable:hmm:, not. And guess what? In the middle of the flight the CSM came around and gave me a survey form to fill out. YES that's priceless. Filled it out telling them exactly how I felt highlighting all the problems, provided my details and wrote on it I wanted to be contacted to inform me they had received it. Have I been called? I hear you ask. What do you think?
OF COURSE NOT.:=

Good on you DIXON you d:mad:khead you and your buddies have really stuffed a good airline. I pray that Qf never looses an aircraft not only for the loss of life but also for the fact that the only thing keeping this airline profitable and flying (it's safety record) will also be lost. Which may result in the demise of our national carrier.

Apologies to any I have offended in writing this (except for you Dixon). Sad but true. I really needed to put in my 2 bobs, no, fifty bucks worth in on this one. I look forward to some interesting replies. Thanks for reading this far.:ok:

you have to understand math
 

the way the GD and his cronies measure success. he has 18 month or so to go before he retires in glory. maximise profits in that time.there will be little extra capacity on the market/routes(lack of aircraft) so the planes going to be full anyway. and lets get the service standards down to jetstar levels so there is no difference between the two in 5 years. and hey who cares whats after july 09, GD is gone, let the next bunny pick up the disaster.:rolleyes:

mudpig you comments are true!
things are going to get worse, they now are conducting an audit on soft drinks and wet ice!
they are trying to tell us that by reducing the amount of ice put on board they will save on fuel and also help the environment!! what a farking joke.
the same applies with soft drinks, they are going to cut it so fine, that we will no longer be able to offer you a coke at the end of the flight.
its got nothing to do with the environment, basically if we save on some fuel a middle manager somewhere will get a huge bonus for cutting costs.

Mudpig..Are You Sure?
 

Last Time I did a CHC we provided a full hot meal service.

Origin Of The Horseshoe
 

The Horseshoe did indeed start off in "E"Zone but it upset so many people that moved it forward so that it upset less people.But hey..they moved it to where the FFs travel...Oops!
It has taken them about eigth years to figure that one out.
Note Bene:MN 63 has decided to withdraw his assinine comments

Defcon
Oh yeah I'm sure. Mind you this was in about '94-'95 thereabouts. There what a lot goin on in the company back then with cost cutting. Oh yeah there where some tensions in the cabin I'll tell you that for nothin.
People off loading at the end of the flight were tellin the cabin crew where to stick their "Thanks for flying with us" routine.

I can just say I was glad I was flyin on ID90 rates.

Service Failures
 

You are no longer allowed to use the PA system to apologize for Service Failures.Probably because you would using it every five minutes.
1.Insufficient meals to provide adequate meal choice
2.Fruit at 30% loading
3.Hot chocolate at 70% loading
4.Already reduced levels of soft drinks
5.The infamous IFE system
6.Lighting systems failing
7.Engineering unable to cope because of major downsizing.
8.Childrens amenity packs in short supply
9.Some ports short of headsets
10.Shortage of J/C and P/C amenity packs network wide.
The list goes on.
Once more capacity is available with other carriers.....QF will lose premium travellers in droves

Inflight service joke.
 

Personnally, I have been unable to recommend Qantas to anybody since the mid nineties in any class of service. In 06 I travelled to SFO in economy class and was appalled by the food and the cramped conditions. The meal took about three hours to complete because of understaffing, the "service" itself took about six hours with a hot chocolate or camomile tea service immediately after the dinner service, then the snack was handed out and it was pure carbohydrate. The IFE did not work either going or coming, the crew performed admirably but were clearly doing their best under the circumstances.
Premium class passengers on Qantas would desert in droves if they were exposed to the service given on other carriers, Thai, SQ, CX, which I am sure they do when they realise they are being ripped off by QF. I am not sure how FF points work but if I had a bank of points with QF I would use them to access flights on One World partner airlines like CX who have far more flights into and out of Australia to the world from far more cities in Australia than does Qantas.
Until Qantas management decides it must compete, a dirty word I suspect in management circles, unfortunately, the airline is doomed to the status of a third world airline.

We always blame GD.

Perhaps Little John and Leslie G are responsible?

The service solution is simple. Allow competition on the pacific.

Qantas Name Change
 

Well its gone from Apology Airlines to The Flying Circus.
Neither one is particularly flattering.
Amusing yes....but not flattering.
QF management rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic.
Provide a little more ice in your glass and then totally alienate the frontline staff that are supposed to make the mess work.
Pure unadulterated stupidity coupled with worst people management I have ever encountered'.
Employees need to be motivated.
Fear and intimidation have never ever been usefull motivational tools.
Have you ever seen the Fat Controller(AW) or the Black Widow(LG) on QCC1
Its doubtful that they even know where it is

An Oxymoron
 

Qantas Service is the complete and perfect oxymoron.
Qantas Employees are being set up to fail.Before they even get to work they are aware that the coming day will bring failures.
These failures are down to under resourcing.There comes a point where reduced manpower and increase workload intersect with devastating on performance and product delivery.
Unfortunately for Qantas Customers and employees that point was reached about 4 years ago .
The situation has worsened considerably since then.
The main area of serious concern now is engineering.Tech Logs on a majority of a/c have outstanding issues going unresolved for weeks.
The holes in the Swiss Cheese are aligning

Service circus.
 

The product does not measure up. Compared to other carriers, QF P/J/Y does not compete. It's cheap. Highest airfares for P/J and service wise it's lousy. The seats, the add ons, the food, check-in, every aspect of the airline is second rate. Why people continue to buy tickets from QF astounds me especially knowing what is available from other carriers.

These shortfalls should be made public for the singular purpose of exposing management for the deception they have perpetrated on the people who pay to use QF services. And Alan Joyce wonders why the Japanese have not taken to Jetstar services ex Japan. The same reason QF does not rate, it lacks prestige.

Mary Had A little......Screw up
 

Management are always going on about cultural awareness.
Perhaps they should put those who plan menus through a cultural awareness course.
Some bright spark has included "lamb" on the QF 21 menu.
It is well known that the Japanese population finds lamb distasteful.
Even the smell can lead to negative comments.
After reports from crew about this situation the load scale has been reduced from %50 to %30.
How about reducing it to %0?
QF aspires to be the best airline in the world....they need to lift the bar a long away if they are to compete with Emirates,Cathay and Singair.
Perhaps a little research into cultural culinary differences may also be appropriate.
C'mon guys......"do it right"

no breakfast
 

Last month flight from Mabila to Sydney QF20 there was no little bags for night and there were no breakfast served.

I am retired CX tech crew and used to very good service by CX cabin crew. I have recently taken a couple of trips on QF577, SYD/PER and QF580, PER/SYD on the 743 classic. I must say that each trip in EY was extremely comfortable with fully serviceable IFE, good cabin service and on time performance. :ok:

I fly Qantas domestically for work. Recently the check in performance particularly at Brisbane has become woeful. It takes over half an hour to check in even at off peak times. Like most Australians I don't do queuing, so this Christmas I'm flying my family Virgin. Have had no other complaints with the service but the thought of an hour in a queue with small children is to much. I hope they fix this because I've come to dread travelling with them.

TC:

They don't have any choice but to fly Qantas because all the other carriers flights are full, and Qantas refuses to let them increase their capacity.

I do not know one person who will willingly fly Qantas if an alternative presents itself.

Open the skies and end this farce.

Aren't QF introducing one more CC on the 747 when the new cheaper labour kicks in? (ie the new 2000 hires on 50% less $)

Sunfish wrote

This is of course total cow manure. Qantas has nothing to do with the allocation of capacity, domestically or internationally. Anyone can put on domestic capacity provided they have an AOC, the equipment and resources. Constraints on domestic capacity went out the door with the demise of the pernicious Two Airline Policy.

Internationally, capacity to and from Australia is regulated by the Australian Government, of which Qantas is not part. If Qantas is able to influence Govt policy to its benefit, then so be it. Make no mistake, those advocating 'open skies' are doing so on account of their self-interest, nothing more, nothing less.

Sunfish - you mar your good points made by you unmitigated and blind hatred of all things Qantas. Time to change your glasses and take in an alternative but valid view!!:ok::ok:

GFPT5
 

Had a similar experience on QF30 LHR-HKG-MEL recently - no night bags loaded at LHR, not fixed at HKG but most annoyingly - no announcements to explain - probably pissed the crew off more than me as they were asked indivicually by everyone within earshot.

The other comical item is the new 'plan your flight' guides at the bottom of the menu. Seems no-one told the crew who manged to approximately reverse the first 3 hours advertised.

To be fair, I also did Syd-JNB in J on the same trip and rate it infinintely superior to BA J (JNB-LHR was worse service than QF Y).

UTR.

Lerty, it's you who are talking cow manure.

A succession of Labor and Liberal "Mates" have occupied Qantas Board seats for forty years. Qantas is an expert lobbiest, or have'nt you remembered what happened last time Singapore applied for extra capacity and got knocked back thanks to the Marg and Geoff show????

Furthermore there is absolutely nothing wrong with self interest, its what free enterprise and a market economy is all about, and Qantas is just as self interested (to the tune of a billion dollar profit) as the rest of them, as are you, as are I.

Hence, your love of free market economics and imported products ceases immediately its your turn to cop some competition.

It has been demonstrated time and again by Economists and in economics, that protectionism always costs more jobs than it creates, and your feeble and pathetic efforts to justify protecting Qantas are just plain stupid. Furthermore, if other airlines or Governments are prepared to subsidise my flights be charging lower taxes, then so be it.

The most likely thing that would happen in the event of opening the skies, would be a leaner more efficient Qantas with less management and lower profits and a lower share price, and if, in the unlikely event that QF did go tits up as a result of competition, and someone then tries to screw us, then we just start another airline.

Providing more competition by increasing capacity on International routes by allowing more airlines and more flights into Australia will remove the ""Qantas Tax" we all have to pay to preserve your rotten job.

Open the skies.

For Sunfish
 

To put the record straight

• I do not work for Qantas

• Furthermore, you will never know my employment

About three weeks ago I tried to buy tickets on SQ from SIN to BNE and return.The return flights for the few days before and after my preferred date were all overbooked by 15. I checked the online agencies and found that the only available seats were on Qantas, so I reluctantly bought tickets with them.
I checked the loadings with Qantas through a friend who can check the QF website. There were 70 seats available on my preferred date of travel on their one daily flight, codeshared with two other airlines. The same day SQ had three flights using aircraft with configuration of 333 seats. So they had 999 plus 45 overbookings.
The 70 seats on QF have probably been booked by now, by pax who couldn't get on other airlines.
Doesn't this tell us something?

Avoiding QF where I can
 

I'm a QF Gold Frequent Flyer/QF Club member that has decided enough is enough! I recently flew VB PER/MEL/PER and found the staff a hell of a lot more friendly, both in the air and on the ground.

I've had more horror stories on QF in recent years than I care to mention, including a cup of tea spilt on me, baggage missing, etc, etc. My observation if you happen to fly on a QF 747/300...the crew are old, bitter and twisted ex long haul that need a rocket up their a$%e!!:mad:

VB's new Foxtel was much more enjoyable than QF's inflight entertainment and it was complementary there and back....not sure whether that is the norm or not? :ok:

In short, QF have to lift their game to get my business back!

I doubt spilling a cup of tea was intentional. That can happen even on the best of airlines. I think they are referred to as accidents. Whilst not desirable, hardly something to get ones wee wee in a knot over. The rest of your opinion I am sure has some validity.

Unfortunately Geoffs policy of shareholders before customers before staff appears to be taking its toll.

Not 'ex' long haul at all.....current long haul in fact. I won't comment on whether they are old, bitter and twisted and need a rocket! :ok:

Perhaps with the new crappy terms and conditions the FAAA are about sign off on we may find that QF finally start recruiting long haul F/As again. About the only people that will be keen to sign on to those conditions will be the younglings looking to see the world. We can only hope! :E :}

Keg,How long do you reckon the younglings as you put it will be fresh and happy especially when they find out how much pay the crew they will be working with get.
Not only that but the newbies will be working considerably longer hours and thats going to go down like a warm beer.
But it sounds like your more interested in fantasizing about younglings instead of thinking how good they are if the manure hits the fan.