Qantas Min's
 

Just checked the website, NO MORE YEAR 12 PHYSICS. Herd a rumour about this seems they do come true now and then!!! Open the gates!!!

Now let me see, that only leaves me English and Maths short now...;)

Excellent BubbaJ, now you can concentrate on your english in particular spelling(herd).

All the best;).

Any body know if South Australian Chemisty + a foreign language from the late 90s counts as equivalent to yr.12 English?
At the time it was accepted to be equivalent for university entrance purposes, and the Airforce accepted it too.

hope the cadetship doesnt follow suit - I spent all last year studying yr 12 physics (and sitting the HSC) just to be eligibe......now they are saying its not required! arrrgh

spose no knowledge is wasted eh? :ugh:

Cadetship will not change!:ok:

Thats gold! Funny actually, only this afternoon was bitching to my g/f about still having to go do that course somewhere sometime soon.

Coz everyone knows you need year 12 physics and a university degree to multiply by 3 to work out a descent profile, add up a fuel order and check a load sheet:yuk:

Physics removed from entry criteria by the Big Red (Merged)
 

I am just wondering if anyone has any idea as to why QANTAS has removed Physics as part of the educational criteria ?? :ugh:

Interesting. We'll soon have a crop of drivers in Australia who don't know what a vector diagram is!!

Could it be they want to slyly eradicate the disparity between the highly educated pure Rat drivers and the poorly or un-educated pseudo-Rat JefStar drivers.

Cynical, I know. If you can't get what you want, lower the bar.

English will be next.

Scotty - I really hope that you are being sarcastic.

If so, please add one of these - :rolleyes:.

If not - you've got to be kidding:suspect:

I thought it was actually divide by 3!;):}
What an absolute load of tosh, for the record HSC physics does not equal aviating god!:rolleyes:

Steve Holding's going to spew!! :eek: How to kill a niche industry with a stroke of a pen.

However Physics should be part of the minimum requirements. Didn't see you guys bagging Ansett for having the same requirements a few years back.

Interesting to note than in the USA to fly for the majors you have to have a 4 year degree. It is also interesting to note that the academic level of alot of the year 12 subjects has also dropped in Australia in the last 10 years. The Uni's have been complaining that the levels of Maths and Science from year 12 are getting pretty bad and people are unable to handle some of the harder degrees.

What is a vector diagram?

Anyone who can distinguish between a Neutron and a Proton after 8 pints of piss is natural born physicist anyway..:}

During what part of the flight am I required to make use of a vector diagram?

neville_nobody

I can assure you that virtually every major airline in the US had dropped the degree requirement by 1999. AIRinc can tell anyone wanting to know what each majors 'minimums' are in the US.

Clearly these rather random 'requirements' have in the past been a way to artificially reduce the number of applicants. This same system has been used at universities for years where entrance scores are varied every year based on supply of candidates Vs number of places available.

Either this is an obvious wind up or an unfortunate display of arrogance from a couple of mainline pilots.

FL300 / 3 = 100 is closer to a 3 degree profile than doing it the other way. At anyrate, we multiply height by 3 for a descent point (your way) but then transition to multiplying distance by 3 (Howard's way) closer in to the airport :ok:.

A great shame
 

Pilots without physics wouldn't be able to see the necessity of physics - a situation akin to "you don't know what you don't know".

Hands up all those that subscribe to the idea that, upon reaching top of climb, rather than just level out and allow the aircraft to accelerate, you climb a few hundred feet more, accelerate, then descend down to the cruising altitude so as to leave you with a higher cruising speed?

There are many, many pilots in Australia that subscribe to this idea. I have heard this "technique" referred to as "getting over the step". I have even heard pilots requesting a "climb overshoot" to ATC when about to conduct it.

If these pilots had done physics (and understood it) they wouldn't be doing that because they would know that there cannot be any benefits to it - and, they would also know that, in fact, doing so only prolongs the time it takes to get settled down in the cruise!

A pilot with an understanding of physics is a much more astute pilot than one without.

A great shame, but such are the commercial realities facing Qantas.

Aircraft - BOLLOCKS. :ugh::ugh::ugh:

You don't need physics to fly an aeroplane or follow SOPS.

Jeeez, some of you guys need to climb down out of your ivory towers.:mad:


Or I got sucker-punched by a pair of trolls.................:{

I wasn't going to bother but since aircraft made the effort... yeah a pretty good analogy there.

No, Jet A, you're right, you don't need a physics qual to fly an airplane but the Rat obviously liked to employ a standard of pilot who had a bit of a clue of something more than just how to calculate a profile or work the FMC.

Eventually we'll have a bunch of crew who can fly the 747 but have no technical idea how it manages to get into the air.

White man's magic?

Physics not important? Take a look at how many people think you can fly a 1 'G' barrel roll.

Now there's a good use for a vector diagram... :p

Nahhhh, looks like I was wrong about the trolls.

" All those pilots without HSC level pass in Physics, bow down to the HSC 2unitA Physics I completed 20 years ago - high - priests - of - the - cockpit". :bored:

We're talking airline pilots here - not Test pilots - don't buy tickets on yourself.

Now you're talkin...... just fold the charts, dish out the pre-flight snacks and let those with the mighty Jethro Bodeen Year 12 edjewkashun do the tricky bits. Okay? :p

Scotty don't get me wrong - i value education - highly - but as appropriate.

So what - you understand the underlying physics in how an aeroplane gets airborne - big ****e. It ain't gonna help you when one of the wing falls off to know the equation & and principles involved in why the aeroplane is now falling out of the sky.

In my opinion, pilots would be better off having a degree in 'Situational Awareness' (if there was one available) rather than physics.

Then again, what ever trips your trigger..:hmm:


BTW If Jethro Bodeen HAD got a Yr 12 education (he only got to 5th grade as i remember), he would have run the bank AND married Miss Jane - instead of trying to become an 'International Playboy'.:ok:

Sixth grade, mate. Sixth grade... obviously too many hours doing your physics homework and not enough quality hours after school watching the Hillbillies!! :p


I trust the Rat are guarding the standards through maintaining a requirement for a pass in year 12 English? :rolleyes:

Whats the big deal? Damn dont be so precious, after all it wasn't really that hard to get when it was a requirement with the 2 week courses anyway. Anyone would think you needed a Physics degree!!:E

Whilst I don't think physics per se is required to fly an aeroplane, I'm sure the discipline makes for a more able pilot.

It's kind of sad to fly with (mostly) youngsters who can't work out a 3 times profile because they can't manipulate basic maths. Can't add up the flight times in the trip log for the day. Who when asked by ATC, can you make FLxyy by time zz, have to reach for a calculator but, then have no idea if the answer is correct because they believe implicitly what it tells them and don't understand the concept of SISO. :uhoh:

Clarrie is on to it!
Best to have your FMS permanently installed and powered by coffee, with a backup in your shirt pocket.

cant do basic maths eh clarrie, let me see how many overspeeds are you up to now, 1 plus 5 equals about 10 or dozen

Capt. Claret.. why don't you teach them you wise ways then?

Shags

Question. How many incidents/accidents are caused because a member of the flight crew had not completed year 12 physics?

Answer. None

To suggest that only a year 12 physics graduate is able to obtain the required level of skill necessary to be a competent and valuable member of a flight crew is ridiculous and flies in the face of contemporary flight training principles. The purpose of such requirements is merely to screen, and reduce the very large number of applicants to an acceptable level. The theory goes, if you can pass year 12 physics, then you won’t have any trouble with the ATPL’s (if a cadet) and HR can rest easy about selecting you.

To suggest it is anything else is a delusion. In fact, from a human factors perspective, the last thing you need in a flight crew member is a guy who completed year 12 physics a couple of years ago thinking through a situation and coming up with his own theory based on degraded high school knowledge.

If future airline pilots what to study something that would actually be useful to their flying career, may I suggest business management and psychology. Both will sever you far better in this business than physics!

There are many skills that are much more relevant to flying an aircraft than yr 12 physics - most of which could not be taught by any school or uni. Some people need to get over themselves.

People are suggesting that someone without yr 12 physics would have no idea why their aircraft is flying. What a load of crap. Last time I looked there was a subject dedicated to this at BAK, CPL and ATPL levels called aerodynamics.

Someone without Physics still has to pass the skills testing and an interview where plenty of technical questions will be thrown at them. The subjects were only there to cull applicants. How much would someone who did the subject 20 years ago remember anyway? Not much. I have yr 12 physics to by the way.

Well it seems that Alaskan requires a 4 year degree, Jet Blue says you will not be competitive without one, Fedex requires one, Continental says it's highly desirable and the rest are not recruiting.

I don’t think they are lowering the bar - although at first glance it might seem that way. I think they have made the change to prevent lowering the bar.

They are now allowing people to apply with bachelor degrees who may not have done physics at yr 12. It will also allow more people with industry experience to apply. If they don’t make a change they will lose this experience to Cathay, Virgin, and Jetstar etc.

Would you rather they kept the requirement and were forced to hire from a small number of less than ideal 500hr hopefuls who hold the bare minimum Maths, Physics and English - or drop the requirement and asses a larger number of applicants on a case by case basis (many of whom may hold degrees and/or have a significant amount of industry experience)?

They simply need a larger pool of applicants to choose from. Just because they dropped the physics requirement doesn’t mean that you will get in with just 500hrs, maths and English!

Some years ago a mate of mine did some icus on the bank runs for a grade 2 from Bankstown. No pressure, no check at the end, just lets go out and fly and learn the ropes.

After a week, he was left in total amazement as said individual was not, even after all that time, able to sucesssfuly calculate a descent profile in the Baron! I know it sounds unbeleivable, but true story.

Less than 3 months later this "pilot" was accepted by Qantas, and is now a serving 400 F/O!

Had the right credentials though, Nepotism, Cronyism, HSC physics, but surprisingly no ASIR's. (That I am aware of)

We really need to get over this physics issue!

What's needed is some mental dexterity with simple maths...as Capt Claret suggested.

Chuck out all these overly complex educational systems such as OBE,and CBT......and bring back times tables and mental arithmetic at Kindy and Year 1 levels.

Yup, shows my age, but I can still add up the restaurant bill from upside down and get half close....even after a few reds !!

Wish some of my students could get that close on a flight plan...ha, ha

happy days,

Understanding of vector diagrams is a must, otherwise I just can't see how filling out the decklog to within the required 5 minute tolerance can be achieved, I just can't see any other way. Gotta say I go through a hell of a lot of yellow pads.

Right on the money poteroo. It stands out to me that my dad, who finished school in year 10 in the 50's will put numbers together in his head quicker than I can punch them into the calculator. This is true not only for me but others of my same age. The system at some point changed and mental arithmetic became less important. I personally think it’s related to introduction of calculators. And the even younger than I struggle with spelling and that one I think is thanks to spell check.

I've done high school and university level physics. I'd swap both any day for the mental arithmetic skills that my dad has.

Real world physics
 

Cute Hostie A is standing 1.7m directly in front of Cute Hostie B. Protective Male Flight Attendant C is standing 1.3m from Cute Hostie B at an angle of 45* from Cute Hostie A. Use a vector diagram to determine at what angle Drunk Pilot D should approach Cute Hostie B to minimise my chances of getting slugged by Protective Male Flight Attendant C. :}

All jokes aside, for now, I think the reason behind this is twofold:
1) There simply isn't the supply of pilots that there has been in the past so yep, when you can't fill the quota based on the current requirements lower the requirements.
and
2) my cynical suspicion - another step in the dumbing down of the industry, "Geez, these pilot types don't even have to know high school physics! How hard can the job be?"

:hmm:

Yes, yes, you are all quite correct: of course physics does not really come into it when actually flying an airplane, even a Qwantas jumbo which requires near god-like powers.

However when as previously stated a significant number of professional pilots think it is possible to perform a 1'G' barrel roll then there is something wrong.

If I was the Qwantas recruitment guru, I'd simply replace the blanket physics requirement with a question on the above topic and let the applicant talk himself into or out of the job based on what kind of answer he dreams up to that quantum physics brain-buster.


A 1'G' barrel roll - Jesus wept. :rolleyes:



PS: Notice how we're all carefully avoiding the topic of spelling, grammar and punctuation which would see even more pilots excluded from the running...