jet.jackson

If it’s new B777’s they want, sorry no slots available until 2014. Boeing have made it very clear that they “WILL NOT” be ramping up production on the Tripler line. There may be some on the second hand market but they will be few and far between as well because of high fuel costs.

404 Titan, don't dismiss jet.jackson's post so easily. The board arrived in NY over the weekend and are meeting all this week. My source says that the biggest decision that they have to make is the B777 offer which is tied in as part of the compensation package that has being negotiated with Boeing for the delay in delivery of the B787's. I understand that there are some B777-300ER's on the production line that have recently been deferred/cancelled by other operators. This would allow early delivery as Qantas is desperate for more capacity (my source indicated that they were most likely going to mainline - not Jetstar).

Media Report...Just 4 Titan 404
 

RISING fuel costs and tight credit conditions pose a new dilemma for Qantas directors, who are in New York for a crucial board meeting.
The directors are now in New York for what the airline says is the most important board meeting in years.

Top of the agenda is the fuel crisis, which has caused the carrier's shares to tumble over the past year, halving the value of the business.

Qantas is now worth a little more than $20 billion and has committed to a total fleet replacement program worth about the same amount.

A year ago, before fuel soared to more than $US100 a barrel, the airline's stock peaked at $5.87, valuing it at just more than $40 billion.

Yesterday the stock closed at $3.06, down another 6 or 1.92 per cent.

The falling share price will put Qantas under even more pressure by affecting credit costs at a time when the airline is about to seek finance for a new fleet of fuel-efficient Airbus super jumbos and Boeing Dreamliners.

Ratings agency Moody's yesterday cranked the pressure further by adivising that it had Qantas under review for a possible credit downgrade.

The agency said the airline's third lowest investment grade credit rating of Baa1 could be lowered if it was unable to offset surging jet fuel prices.

"Cost side pressure, and most critically the cost of fuel, have raised the level of financial risk, and Qantas is in the process of implementing rapid cost and revenue-side initiatives to protect its profit margins," said Moody's vice-president Ian Lewis, the agency's lead analyst on Qantas.

He added that Qantas faced significant challenges because the airline was already "weakly positioned within its ratings".

These issues will no doubt influence the decision Qantas directors have to make about yet another new aircraft.

Apart from the A380 and Boeing Dreamliner, the airline has to find a replacement for its 13 ageing 747 Boeing jumbos.

The only option available at present is the Boeing 777-300 ER, (extended range) twin jet, which is reputed to be the most fuel-efficient aircraft flying.

It is understood that one of the reasons for holding this week's board meeting in New York was to hold talks with Boeing president James McNerny who is keen to sell the aircraft to Qantas, a move which could see the airline trade some of the options it holds for Dreamliners in exchange for the 350-seat 777s.

Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon has told both Boeing and Airbus the aircraft to be chosen as the 747 replacement has to carry 350 passengers and fly the Pacific non-stop.

The 777 has all of these atributes

GD bite the bullet, swallow your pride and go for the Trippler...

Alex, aren't you an Airbus afficionardo?

Normally, but I do like the Triple:ok:

Media Report...Just 4 argus.moon
 

argus.moon

The B777 and the B787 aren't assembled on the same line so QF trading some B787 slots won't free up slots on the B777 production line. They are the facts. Sorry to spoil your day and a good rumour.:ooh:

Media Report vs Media Report
 

One doesn't necessarily refute the other.
Aircraft on the line have had their orders cancelled.
Qantas may pick up those aircraft that are no longer required by another carrier.
Part of a compensation package for late delivery

jet.jackson
That’s news to me. Got a link to which airlines have cancelled B777 orders?

There wouldn't be some sort of a horse trade with American airlines in the pipeline would there?:ok:

404 Titan. There is some brand new B777-300ER availability in the near future, not from Boeing but a leasing company.

Boeing's website suggests about 10 777s have been cancelled in recent years. Combine this with a few deferrals and you could squeeze in a few extra.

One suggests that with the recent fuel price rises, some carriers would be happy to defer (not cancel) any deliveries which are purely for capacity increase (as opposed to replacing another, more fuel-guzzling type) until the dust settles. Similarly, these boards were very recently awash with stories of some carriers parking aircraft due lack of crews - if that's still the case, then they would be deferral candidates until that situation gets sorted out. A carrier with 15/20/25/30 777s already in service might be happy to put 5 or so they have on order, back from 2012/3 delivery to 2014/5. And manufacturers would bend over backwards to 'defer' rather than 'cancel' as canx'es look bad for their stats; a deferral (or slot trade) allows them to then put a positive spin on it when a 'new' order is forthcoming (especially from a new operator of the type).

Don't forget also that some slots are held by lessors 'on spec' - that is, ordered by the lessor before they have placed the aircraft with a carrier. Hence a three-way could be done between Boeing, the lessor and the carrier (eg. lessor places frame with carrier and Boeing covers at least part of the lease cost as part of the compensation package).

And it would not take much to ramp-up from 6.5 per month to 8 or so. Lack of orders on the 767 line (whilst using different tooling) would at least free up some labour and floor space for a slight increase in 777 production. 404 Titan - I seem to recall from my visit to the Everett floor that 767 and 777 production is on the same line (but that was 5 years ago).

I suspect the 'discipline' that Boeing is talking about, is resisting ramping up from 6.5 to 10 or so. Recall 10-15 years ago when 747-400 production was ramped up to double figures, there were all sorts of quality control issues; then industrial problems when Boeing sought to lay off workers as things slowed down. Then they got really scarred by a month-long strike a few years ago. I suspect they are keen to avoid that sort of cost (both monetarily and to reputation) again and so would rather see a few orders go east rather than make promises they cannot ultimately deliver upon.

404 Titan Stunning Arrogance
 

"News To Me"
So if you.... MR Titan..... dont know about something it cant possibly be true.
Pull your head out of your sphincter and attempt to acccommodate another point of view that you may not know about....O omnipotent one.

Nepotism...10 Posts Back
 

You will find someone has already posted the same article.
Try and keep up.

Bad Hat Harry

I think if you read my post again with a cool head you will realise it was a question. That’s what “?” was for at the end of the last sentence.:rolleyes:

And yes your apology is accepted.:}

404 Titan

I've re-read you posts and come to the same conclusion as Bad Hat Harry, in that you appear to be unable to accept that there is something happening which is contrary to your knowledge of Boeing production lines.

The swapping of B787 slots for B777's was simply speculation by a journalist - nothing credible there. I would think that Qantas would keep every slot on the B787 production line (irrespective of the B777 decision) because they want to replace all widebody aircraft (except A380 of course) with these very efficient aircraft.

My source is very well placed and his opinion is that the B777 order is virtually assured.

404 Titan..Goose
 

Firstly an apology was not offered.
Secondly every post you make only reinforces the perception that you are an arrogant tosser

That's funny I thought BA were being offered the 777 in compensation for the late 787?

There can't be that many 777's available to give both BA and QF some.

Maybe I should suggest to my bosses at CX we try to get more 777's too?
After all we are an existing 777-300ER lover and should get first rights to any extras. Not like you late comers !!!!:ok:

If the 777 order is assured, when do Jet* get them?

My source tells me that there are two very senior Qantas training Captains currently in the U.S. undertaking 777 endorsement training. Keg, any extra info? One is apparently J.B. from the 737 fleet?

Naive question.

Would a 777 endorsement fast track you to the 787?

Just a thought.

Slim. Haven't heard anything. I'm not in there until next week but I'll ask around when I am.

A training person with the initials JB ? is he the one who claims the 737-400 and 300 sims are exact working replicas of the aeroplane, and if you think otherwise, its because you havent been trained in simulator fidelity?

Going Boeing

I have no problem in accepting the fact QF may be in the market for B777. If the rumour is true, great. I just don’t take a rumour as fact until I have seen the hard evidence. I haven’t seen any yet but if/when I do I will change my opinion. The fact at the moment is that QF is probably one of the airlines that are pressuring Boeing to increase the production rate of the B777 line and Boeing have publically stated that they won’t be. As someone else has pointed out there are a few ILFC B777 that haven’t yet been placed. Maybe QF can pressure Boeing into paying for the leases for these spare aircraft. No doubt these aircraft, if they exist (I have no idea if they do), would be going for a premium rate.:)

Bad Hat Harry

Oh boy. I have a bit of a light hearted debate here and you go flying off the handle. Look who the tosser is now. People who resort to these kinds of personal attacks usually are incapable of an intelligent debate in the first place.:yuk::*

ACMS,

Qantas ordered their 787s before BA, hence it's probably reasonable to assume that Qantas would get priority in the 777-as-compo pecking order (especially as QF is the biggest Dreamliner customer to date). If they've been offered to BA, I suggest it's safe to assume that Jim's already been chatting to Geoff.

And the conspiracy theorist in me says that as Boeing has become increasingly aware of problems on the 787 line, they have kept a few places on the 777 line up their corporate sleeve as a contingency. So we should not be too surprised to see some rabbits being pulled from hats.

Dixon has said recently, that in hind sight it would be good to have the 777 in the fleet. If they had ordered them 5 years ago, they wouldn't be left scrathing their heads now about how to replace the 747-400's which burn more fuel than the 777. Of course the 777 doesn't carry the same number of pax, but it is pretty close to what QF use on their Pacific config 747-400's.

To me the whole will we/won't we on the B777 at QF is short term management at it's finest. Not only does the 777 has the capacity to cover existing routes, but over the last 5 years we could have expanded the QF network again. A lot of other airlines MH, TG, SQ and CX all operate 3 or 4 times a week to ports QF says are impossible to make money on with this type of frequency. These airlines all use 777's on these routes, and they have been for years. Either these airlines like to bleed cash, or a 777 contributes to making the economies of these routes sustainable.

Quote
"Dixon has said recently, that in hind sight it would be good to have the 777 in the fleet."
Stevie Wonder could have seen that 5 years ago. Why couldn't the "Brain Surgeons" running this outfit? :ugh:

Quote-
"Why couldn't the "Brain Surgeons" running this outfit?"

------------------

Why would the lowlife who currently run this once proud airline care what shape it is in, 5 years out ??

They are only here for the short term and their bonuses are paid annually.:yuk::yuk::yuk:

speed birdhouse - spot on:ok:
Its prob even more short term than that

404 titan and Bad Hat Harry
saucer of milk for table two
http://www.pusscats.com/Cat_Fight.jpg

Drshmoo,

Given Teflon Geoff is on the way out (though not as quick as some would like), you're right - his horizon is only as far as his next bonus or the severance payout.

And the competition to take over as Top Sea-nut means that all of the second layer are trying to make their numbers look as good as possible, therefore cutting everything that can't run faster than them. You could rename the puddy tats in that shot 'Greggsie' and 'Borgho' in that respect (with the winner to take on Al, the dreaded ginger tom from south of the border).

So it ain't going to improve in the short term.

Now one thing Boeing would really like to see would be the Rat taking some 747-8s as part of the compensation package...

Speaking of rumours, any ideas?

A planned Australian start-up, as yet unnamed, is preparing to commence passenger and cargo services in Nov-08, using E-170, E-190, ATR-72 and A300F aircraft, as revealed exclusively on peanuts.aero.

The airline, currently based in Melbourne, will launch service with four E-190s, followed by one E-170, and plans an extensive network covering Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, Canberra, Adelaide, Hobart and the Gold Coast. While slot allocation has been granted at all destinations, the airline will progressively launch its network, with an initial focus on Sydney, Gold Coast and Melbourne.

The airline stated it plans to deliver a standard of domestic air travel “never experienced before in Australia. And all this on a low fare basis, including complimentary meals and drinks”. The “value for money” , “service-based” approach will see the airline position itself between Qantas and Virgin Blue in the domestic market.

The start-up was registered on 10-Oct-06 as an Australian company, and has investment partners in Germany.

As previously revealed by peanuts.aero, Lion Air, Indonesia’s most successful new entrant airline, plans to commence Australian operations later this year using a six aircraft fleet of extended range B737-900ERs. Lion will hold 49% of the new company, which is to be 51% owned by Australian charter operator, SkyAirWorld.

Initially, Lion Air Australia is looking at international routes, to Indonesia and Southeast Asia, and is considering operating "some" domestic routes, according to SkyAirWorld CEO, David Charlton.

SkyAirWorld was the first operator in Australia to introduce the Embraer-170 jet last year.

Any thoughts?

A planned Australian start-up, as yet unnamed, is preparing to commence passenger and cargo services in Nov-08, using E-170, E-190, ATR-72 and A300F aircraft, as revealed exclusively on peanuts.aero.

The airline, currently based in Melbourne, will launch service with four E-190s, followed by one E-170, and plans an extensive network covering Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, Canberra, Adelaide, Hobart and the Gold Coast. While slot allocation has been granted at all destinations, the airline will progressively launch its network, with an initial focus on Sydney, Gold Coast and Melbourne.

The airline stated it plans to deliver a standard of domestic air travel “never experienced before in Australia. And all this on a low fare basis, including complimentary meals and drinks”. The “value for money” , “service-based” approach will see the airline position itself between Qantas and Virgin Blue in the domestic market.

The start-up was registered on 10-Oct-06 as an Australian company, and has investment partners in Germany.

As previously revealed by peanuts.aero, Lion Air, Indonesia’s most successful new entrant airline, plans to commence Australian operations later this year using a six aircraft fleet of extended range B737-900ERs. Lion will hold 49% of the new company, which is to be 51% owned by Australian charter operator, SkyAirWorld.

Initially, Lion Air Australia is looking at international routes, to Indonesia and Southeast Asia, and is considering operating "some" domestic routes, according to SkyAirWorld CEO, David Charlton.

SkyAirWorld was the first operator in Australia to introduce the Embraer-170 jet last year.

Forward CofG
Great stirring but re-read post #124. :D

Wod
Yes, Boeing is designing the B787 flightdeck to be a seamless transition for B777 rated pilots despite the fact that the systems will be significantly different (ie electric). The way that a Boeing salesman explained it to me indicated that they hope to get the FAA, JAA, etc to agree to a single type rating ie more than just CCQ. :ok:

JB has been out of office for the last week or so. . . . . . .

as per the news/media
they're all in a big pow wow (crisis meeting) in New York this week

Different JB Knurled Knob. The one I'm talking about is involved in 737 training management. I think you're refering to the much loftier JB who has his eyes on Dixon's job.

Ummmmm yes skinny man. That would be the 73 training manager???? The same one to whom I refer.

Sorry Iron, when you mentioned New York I thought you meant the executive JB. Not sure what the 737 training manager would be doing at a board meeting???

I'm hoping he's in Seattle doing a 777 endosement!!!!:ok: But I think most likely taking delivery of a new 800.

Reportedly he is in KL.

Sorry.