National Jet Systems - Recruiting.
 

Well it seems NJS/Cobham are on the hunt. I hear lots of boys and girls are having interviews and many will have an early present from Santa (GR).

What is the news? New contracts coming up?

717s are due to be finished up or extended/expanded soon, probably something to do with that.

Beaver, there is no pay cut in the wings for current NJS QFLink staff.

Someone has already posted the proposed conditions for NJS employees, but I can't find it.

The NJS guys have actually been very quiet about this on here, it's been out for a little while now.

i heard pay cut was on the cards, bit of a difference between 717's being finished or extended/expanded?

The current 717 contract finishes sometime next year. Whether they extend and expand or knock the whole thing on the head would depend on the negotiations between QF and NJS.

Word from a reliable source (not in NJS) that a couple more 717's are on their way to NJS. That would explain the recruiting - apart from people leaving.

Topend
 

You really need to find a more reliable source you are WRONG again.:hmm:

No pay cuts, they are trying to replace CPI with a constant % increase.

There were some pay and conditions for NJS mentioned at the end of this thread.

that was straight from a B717 crew so maybe you should check your colleagues facts out

Hmmmmmm NJS or donating my live body to research????



Show me the cosmetics!

bbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzz

The 717 crew are either wrong or they didn't tell you the whole story. Existing staff are not taking any pay cuts. RENURPP has it right.

'B scale' wages are being introduced for new pilots and F/A's with bonds being introduced right across the company as a whole, not just pilots.

With no disrespect to the NJS crews, if 'The Voice' is correct, then this must be a first... i.e. A 'B' scale being introduced to a Low cost operator!! :confused: (NJS being the lower cost operation to QF)

It really depends on what you define as a pay cut. If you classify a level of pay as a certain amount of spending power, then NJS pilots have been taking pay cuts for years. The current proposal will INCREASE the reduction of spending power. In pure numbers terms, it's a less of a pay rise. In spending terms, it's a bigger kick in the guts.

They're not recruiting, they're interviewing. Beware the contents of the poisoned chalice.

Bocs,
You raise an interesting point. How far should current employees go (if they can) to stop management introducing a B scale?

There is a considerable amount of discussion going on about this within NJS. Probably the reason that you have not heard three fifths of farkall about it is that NJS pilots know full well that whatever they talk about on here, some (or several) wankers will grab the wrong end of the stick, jump to all sorts of conclusions and end up by slanging off at managers, beancounters and worst of all other pilots.

The one thing that might be worth saying on Pprune, is this....

Any pilot currently considering a job offer for any of NJS 717, 146 or D8 should be made fully aware that they will most likely be offered a position on significantly less conditions than their colleagues.

Current base salary for 717 and 146 at NJS is around $125k for Captain and $75k for FO. There is no increment for years of service. One proposal has new pilots being offered $100k Captain and $60k FO. And they will have possibly signed up to pay for all or part of their type rating as well as a bond. And possibly be locked in to those conditions for 5 years as the market for experienced jet pilots strengthens.

Before anybody jumps in and says 'how can NJS pilots allow this?' the first thing you should know is they are damned unhappy about it. The second thing you should know is that their opinion or actions on this matter are probably completely irrelevent.

The "WorkChoices" legislation introduced by the current federal government allows any employer the ability to offer any terms and conditions they like to new employees or pilots changing classification.

So if you want to blame anybody for erosion of pilot conditions from here on, blame the Australians that voted in a majority Liberal senate.

ITCZ,

I think your right. Don't blame the existing Pilot's at NJS for something they don't have total control over.

It's the NEW pilots who accept this deal who are to blame. Unfortunately $60K as a jet F/O is still better than $45K as a Bras F/O so its going to be hard to say no and I would say there will be a few takers. The people who take this sort of deal are the ones using jobs like this as a stepping stone to a bigger Airline. Unfortunately, the ones who see NJS as a long term prospect are the ones who suffer.

H777, that's unfair. What are people to do? Walk away from a career they love and the chance to fly a jet just because it is deemed to be too-underpaid by other people in the industry?

The real people to blame are the employers who are using our love of flying to their own ends by lowering conditions (in some cases to prop up their bureaucracies). The politics of envy plays a big part too. And John Howard's Workchoices doesn't make things any easier.

The rate quoted for new captains..... Does this mean f/o's who are promoted internally will be on less than a newly promoted Capt 6 months ago??

No, new employees.

I'll just take your point in another direction.... I may be wrong but NJS very rarely hired Bras FO's straight in to its jets.

In fact NJS have often been very lucky in whom they have working for them. A good number of ex-CASA FOI, plenty of ex-military folk from all services including QFIs and fast jet pilots, lots of 89ers with plenty of jet airline experience. Lots of former chief pilots, chief flying instructors, etc. From what I hear there are only three or four pilots out of the lot that did not at least hold a two crew turboprop command before finding themselves as a 146 or 717 FO. Like a lot of operators when they hire an FO they are hopefully hiring someone that they can promote to Captain one day. NJS certainly looked for people that had 'a little bit extra.' Not so much in terms of being hotshot pilots but pilots that can take on some of the extra challenges of flying the 146 or 717 into poorly supported locations, as against buzzing between capital city aerodromes with easy access to maintenance, catering, etc.

I reckon they will have trouble attracting the kind of people they are used to getting.

Stepping stone? More like a mill stone. The deal I heard has a newbie sacrificing $5000 a year for 3 years from the already lowered wage plus a return of service bond for 3 years.
Bloody hard to step on those stones with that hanging around your neck!

Who is to blame for the continued drop in pay and conditions? Who did the initial 717 contract? Are they still in the position? Why did they lose the AAE contract? Is the renewal going to be tighter? If so who else could do it and for how much?

NJS has always had top class pilots and it's a shame they are not respected as such. I doubt it's management as opposed to a lean mean industry that keeps pushing for more service while not giving anything back. People can blame the young mob coming through for taking conditions that are worse than theirs but what else can they do?

ITCZ,
If you consider it a blessing to work under ex military pilot managers then you ain't been in NJS. This company is not what it was 8 years ago when KD and his WONDERFUL crew were running things.:ugh:

RENURPP. :ok: on both posts.

Thankyou illusion for providing me with an example of how a Ppruner's mindset distorts what I am trying to say. I did not say a thing about management.

I said that NJS have always been able to recruit pilots with a lot of experience, quite often previous jet and RPT experience. They often picked up a lot of gold that had been discarded or overlooked by bigger companies with cumbersome recruitment processes. I think they are about to make themselves less competitive when it comes to attracting those sort of people in the future.

The point ITCZ and some of the other posts made on this thread are all quite valid. I doubt if any one disagrees that the proposed "B" scale for NJS is a further reduction in conditions or that job.

Whats even sadder is, whilst $ 60k a year for right seat of a 146 or B717 is crap, even for a new start. $57K for a Braz Captain or $ 37K for a braz F/O and do most of your own Baggage handling, refuelling, check-inn etc is even more crap. That is why the problem is self perpetuating with out leaving Australia. The NJS offer will still be attractive to some.

Apprentices
 

There will be hundreds knocking on their door. Mostly apprentices.

But Wait,there's more!!Not only do flight crew & cabin crew have to pay for their training,now engineers are expected to as well.Any LAME joining will have to salary sacrifice 50% of the type course and also be bonded for 100% of all costs incl travel & accom for a period of years.It is a take it or leave it offer with the threat of 400+ redundancies if rejected!!Of course the sherriff of Nottageham has offered to take a 2% paycut as well but he doesn't know what his pay is yet.Over the last 2 years the good staff have been leaving in droves apart from the puppets who dance to the new tune.This drive is all about flogging the lower end whilst achieving a set profit margin and fixing a nice lil bonus for the top end& it SUX!!OZ

um, I thought he was capping his rise at 2%, similar to what he has asked all the staff and managers to take.

Capping at 2% doesn't equal a 2% paycut.

I think it was said earlier, all new staff will be offered lower pay scales and bonding, right across all 4 business groups for endorsement/licence courses - this includes engineers, F/A's and observers, not just pilots it would be a first I believe?

It is all about preservation of the company as an entire going concern as some parts of the group are being overshadowed by others reference revenue earning. It doesn't particularly help when major clients are turning the screws and flexing their muscles either. Kind of holds the company to ransom. Reduce costs or not re-sign.

Sux really.

So the "sherriff" only takes a pay rise of 2% for 2007. What about the next 4 years after that like the rest of the employees???
When are they going to stop taking? There comes a point where you all have to say NO! Who cares if it is supposedly for new employees only? It is setting the scene for the rest of the industry. When your AWA is up next what's to say that they're not just going to put you all on the same conditions as the new starts? It's time to stop thinking of now, and instead, thinking ahead for the future.

I was thinking about the current NJS situation last night and had a few thoughts, always a dangerous thing when you're not that smart.

If I was a large airline expanding into a low cost carrier offshoot. How could I reduce pay and conditions for staff? One way would be to get the industry used to those conditions by tendering contracts that had slim profit margins, causing the sub contracter to implement reduced conditions in order to survive and make money. That way I would be a more appealing option when it came time for me to expand domestically, that is after I had finished my international expansion.No one would blame me and I could point to industry standards. All the while making record profits and telling everyone to tighten their belts.

A smart man once told me if you have a choice between a conspiracy and stupidity, run with stupidity. Pity I'm dumb huh.

We could blame the newbie pilots for this, the union, or the federal government, we could even blame the consumer for wanting cheap air travel but how do we fix it?

If you don't like a new AWA you can choose not to sign it in which case you remain on the old one.

Well I think you're all wrong............nah, not really. Some very well thought out informative posts, I even have to agree with most of bloggsies stuff, which is a bit scary :ugh:

I'd like to add something though.
I reckon Qf are just after the 717s being operated as efficiently as they were previously, and without computerised flight planning and RVSM just to name a couple of things, this is obviously not happening, and most of the blame lays fairly and squarely with BS castle ( CIA ).

Of course, the path of least resistance, as usual, is the employees.
So you guys pay for crap management :yuk:

Until the Company have the "old one" cancelled by the Office of the Employment Advocate. Then you revert to the G.A. Pilot's Award 1999.

Johnny Howards "Work-for-the-Dole/ WorkChoices" in action.:\

3, a couple of blokes have tried that theory out already, the outcome ( in the IRC ) was that they go back to the AWA they where originally on. They where both 71 effos, threatened with returning to the 146 and D8 respectively.
I believe one of them has seen the light and voted with his feet.

Therefore theoretically, the ones that signed the original 71 AWA, should stay on that.

A$125 000 for a 717 Captain:yuk: I'm an F/O on similar equipment overseas and earn about 8% less before tax. After the NJS skipper has been milked by the ATO I come out well ahead, after only six months on type.

Time to start looking at the contracts on offer overseas, show you are determined to get paid what you're worth even if it means a move. The financial penalty of living and working in Oz has become too great to justify the lifestyle.

While there are so many pilots who will put up with such poor conditions just to stay home things will never improve.

Well thats good. We look forward to you not applying for a job back in Aus.

you obiously wouldn't like Alliance 104K or OZjet 130K or Virgin E190 127K.

The less of you who want our jobs living in this good, used to be great country the better off we are.
Market forces.

Yeah, it's a difficult decision.

Stay where I am clearing A$100 000/ year flying brand new aircraft with upgrade and a 50% payrise in another year or two.

Come back to Oz, to the right hand seat, A$70 000/year before tax. IF I can get a job.

Sometimes the grass really is greener on the other side.;)

Only worth flying in Oz now if you're a QF mainline Captain, and for how much longer with Dixons plans ?

There's a bit involved in getting an old AWA canceled I believe. Enough time to go get another job anyway. In our company we have a group of employees on an old AWA, company doesn't seem to care.