Mid-air bomb plot 'a major threat
 

Heathrow Closed to all flights not already airborne
Brussels cancels all flights to UK
Lufthansa cancels all to UK
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20081564-2,00.html

Why don't we have consistent security screening of ALL airside staff at ALL airports????? Why are some airside staff treated like criminals while going to work, while others (generally with grubbier pasts) still waltz airside each day without a glance?????

WAKE UP AUSTRALIA!!!!!!!!!!

Forget about looking for Nanna's "sinister" nail clippers! Get real and start looking for sinister people! Find them, ban them and tell the bleeding heart, whale kissing, moon maidens that repeatedly defend the civil rights of such pigs to GET F#$KED!

Time to take a hard line and get real about protecting Australians! Start barking up the right trees! Better to be seen as a nation of c*&ts that a nation of DEAD c*&nts!

bbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz z

Give it a few years and PAX will have to fly nude with no other items, with checked baggage flying on a dedicated freighter..

Although, as long as they still serve alcohol it probably will be a most enjoyable nude flight (for some) :}

With the no liquids thing.. how long before no catering is allowed. Perhaps just put pax to sleep with drugs then no-one can do anything :E

Actually.. given the pictures on the news of thousands of people in a queue to get through security. Why do the naughty people even bother trying to bomb a plane when they could just walk into the terminal and kill 5x more people in the queue. :(

unfortunately these people will ruin air travel for all and result in a decline in leasure travel. I for one don't mind lining up for security screening but there has to be a better way. :uhoh:

About says it all
 

Good old Buzzy has been quiet of late, did Wooms have anything to do with this?

Anyway this time he has a VERY VAILD POINT!!:D

Cheers
J:ok:

Your first idea - already been done - Ben Gurion Airport, Tel Aviv, May 1972.

Second idea - there is a better way: five-year validity on passports (rather than ten) and more stringent checks when you apply for one; the shorter validity means more frequent checks. Nought to hide, nought to fear from a bit of probing.

Don't like your background being looked into? Fine, you have a choice - fly and have your background looked at or don't fly and keep your background to yourself.

Now I'm not trying to stir or re-open the ASIC debate here, but how's this for logic: if airside workers need an ASIC - and so have their backgrounds checked - then it follows that others who go airside (ie. passengers) should also have their backgrounds checked. OK, punters might only go airside once in a blue moon, but a miscreant only has to get lucky once.

Yes it would cost more, but I'd pay it for peace of mind. And a seat on your NudeAir flight.

Couldn't agree more on that. It seems to me that the world has to have a bully somewhere. It used to be the soviet union but they got knocked off their perch. Now the worlds bully is the terrorist movement and as long as the remaining world powers continue with this politically correct "let's all be nice" crap, we're fornicated. I say nuke the middle east and get it over and done with, sure there'd be condemnation from the rest of the world, but that would soon go away after a couple of years of true world peace.

Tailie. I think you're overlooking the fact that in some countries even Dr Crippen could get a Police Clearance and valid Passport!!!

But I'm rather partial to Frozo's kinky suggestion!!!

:} :}

Sunny Woomera

:D Well bloody said.

Not nice! :mad: Woomera

And I can just see Woomera enjoying himself flying on the cheapest possible LLC with the smallest seat-pitch in the industry...in his requested middle seat in the centre row. :E

"Hmm, need to get up and walk around, excuse me...:}...excuse me...:}...mmm excuse me! :}


:\

Terror
 

I was just browsing through cable TV and I came across Air Crash Investigation, PAL flight 434!!

Three minutes into watching it I noticed that this documentary is resembling more and more what 'nearly' happened over in the UK/USA just recently. Couldnt help but think these kind of programs might be sending the wrong messages to the wrong people??

What do you think?

That's a little harsh Zep.
Israel is the only country in the region that operates under the same/similar democratic principles that we purport to. Any major conflict that has occurred in the middle east over the last few decades in which Israel has been involved, has been started by the guys on the other side of the fence.
Those same countries have sat idley by over the past 25 years with a rather smug look on their collective faces and have been more than happy for Iran to do their bidding and stick it up Israel, safe in the knowledge that they could then say "well, it wasn't us".
The fact of the matter is if it wasn't for the oil, the rest of the world would have passed the Arabs by decades ago. The Arab world is rotting on the vine.
Iran is responsible directly and indirectly for most of what goes under the name of terrorism today. That's what the Arab world has achieved by their inaction.
They now have a country right next door that is racing towards obtaining nuclear weapons capability as quickly as they can possibly go. The Saudies, the Egyptions, the Jordanians are worried big time. Serve the f*%#@'s right.
The clerics that have the ultimate say in Iran are well and truly rooted in the seventh century. The regime would have to be the most irresponsible, tyranical, oppressive, dictatorial, authoritarian, contemtable, despotic group of collective assholes on the planet.
And I'm sick and tired that such a backward horde of pr!cks are creating and getting away with so much mayhem. Unfortunately because they're sitting on top of so much oil, I can't see them being nuked anytime soon.
What a shame!
I despise them and what they stand for.
Basically, I want them drawn and quartered, I want them on the rack, I want them electrocuted, I want them injected with some sort of nasty virus, I want them fried, I want them shot, I want them drowned, I want them blown into a million bits, I want them stone motherless f#@%^ing dead!
If there's a button that can be pushed somewhere to achieve this, I'm first inline!!!
..........better crawl back into bed I think.

Is it ironic that this is probably what they think of you too! The difference is that they have the means (or are seeking the means) to do it. For those interested in the differences between Islam and the west I can recommend two books. 'Islam in our backyard' is one of them and 'mosques and miracles' is the other!

gassed budgie

It's enlightened post such as yours, and others of the same ilk, that ensure that world peace won't be known in our time.

My kids are half Egyptian but born and bred in Australia. On their behalf, I hope "the f*%#@'s get you first. :mad:

but I do fear probing, I've seen Border Security :bored::ooh::eek::{

p.s never go and see Dr. Acula

Its true that religion is the root of all Evil and peace will never come until all religions are banned.
Just think how stupid it is, religion is chosen at birth by parents, It should not be allowed until a person is 21 and can decide for themselves.
The world could be such a great place but i do not see a very bright future , and the more miserable it becomes the quicker the end...

Just don't try to take those books of yours through screening up in LHR, Keg..... "Tea and biccies, Mr Manning? I'd love to!"

A word of caution before this thread heads any further down hill!

The Islamic religion does not promote violence and the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful people, equally as frustrated and angered by the extremist zealots, as the rest of the world. Innocent Muslins are also suffering and dying.

All religions have their lunatic, zealot, fundamentalist fringe dwellers. Christian zealots throughout history, from the Inquisition, the KKK, to the more recent Jonestown People’s Temple and Waco Branch Davidians are no better than the fundamentalists behind the current terror scourge that has permeated our society.

Ill informed, bigoted and biased religious comment will not be tolerated on this forum.

The topic is “Mid-air bomb plot 'a major threat” which may be discussed – without ludicrous and unnecessary religious bigotry!

:mad:

Sunny Woomera

Yes, but the religios extremist groups you have mentioned here have not declared a war on the entire Western society and made it their "god" given right to kill as many people as possible to gain access to whatever paradise they aspire to.

i would call the groups you mentioned more of a cult than a gloabl religios group with global influence.

This is probably a bad idea, but I have to correct Woomeras comments regarding what Islam teaches. I'm only offering this as a matter of fact, I have no axe to grind!

Islam, via the Koran, explicitly commands it's adherents to kill all those who are not Muslim, and in particular, Christians. The evidence for this is contained in Surah 5:9, which reads:-

"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever you find them, and seize them, beleaguer them and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war) but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them, for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."

"Forbidden months" may mean the month of Ramadan (forbidden for fighting- according to some) or in context it appears to mean months of treaty with the Pagans.

The word translated "Pagans" is literally "the associators" or those who have committed the crime of associating a partner with Allah. The Arabic verb is 'shirk', or to associate. The word 'musharikiin' means "associators".

This can only describe Christians, because Christians say (from a Muslim's perspective), that Jesus is equal to Allah. So a native Arabic reader sees "...kill the Christians wherever you find them...."

I would be the first to agree that the vast majority of Muslims are kind, hospitable, loving people. I have spent time in Arab countries and so have first-hand knowledge of this. I have friends who are muslims, and they are great people. However, I have also lived in Bradford and Birmingham in the UK, where the Madrassas (schools) routinely preach hatred and death to all westerners. Hundreds of thousands of young Muslims are being taught that Westerners are the enemy, and that death by strapping a bomb to your chest will bring great rewards in heaven. This is well-known, particularly since 9/11.

The danger of Islam is that it provides a mechanism for mobilising an army, bent on the destruction of anyone who does not convert to Islam. It may not be actively doing this in NZ or Oz, but it is happening in many other countries, including the UK - as we have seen in the last weeks in news reports, with Tony Blair being threatened with death if he does not convert.

Anyway, I offer that purely to redress the balance, as the PC thing to do is to say that Islam is a peaceful religion. By it's own admission, it isn't. Bush got it right the other day when he referred to a "war with Islamic fascists".

Yes, I must take issue with Woomera too. Before I do, let me say that commenting on these issues in an intellectually honest way is not bigotry. Hopefully we will not fall victim to mindless PC censorship in this discussion.

For a start, the Inquisition and the KKK have nothing, fundamentally, to do with Christianity. The first was political, the second supremacist, and although both aligned themselves with Christianity, there is nothing in that faith that permits or encourages either. Jonestown (The Peoples Temple) started out Christian, but went off the rails and ended up with virtually no Christian content - the manner of their deaths being an affront to Christian teaching. The Branch Davidians were closer to Christianity, and in their case their infamy has more to do with the manner of their ending than what they actually believed.

The big difference between Islam and virtually all other religions, is that Islam not only encourages the killing of those who are not adherents, but it also puts in place a legal framework that permits the routine beheading or amputation of those who fail to adhere to what is a very rigid legal framework. How either of those two characteristics can exist in a religion that is described as "peaceful", is quite beyond me.

The leaders of the western countries that are aligned against terrorism, are stuck in a PC hell. They can't denounce Islam, but on the other hand, they know that the more violent teachings of the Koran - the bits that nobody wants to talk about - are how the fundamentalists justify themselves to the Muslim world. Eventually, somebody is going to have to call a spade a spade, as Bush seems to be increasingly doing.

The crusades weren't a Sunday barbeque...

The mussies have got the Airbus software codes. Type ISLAM into the FMGC guys- Watch! The power comes up a little and then a bearing and distance to Mecca!

One day soon, Airbus drivers all around the world, will push managed descent and nothing is going to happen. Hundreds of airliners will sail off into the sunset, toward an infidel abyss.

There is only one God. Allah Akbar. Allah Akbar.

No and the behaviour carried out during them is widely condemned by every Christian under the sun- the same as they condemn the behaviour of the branch davidians and those who kill abortionists but claim to be Christian. Do we see the same level of condemnation about the acts of Hezbollah, al qaeda, etc from the muslim community?

It is also true that there are violent parts of the bible when taken in isolation however if you read them in historical context then they are a lot more reasonable. Unfortunately, the Quran doesn't have the same context available to them being mostly in order of length rather than being in the order that Mohammed dictated them. The other thing worth considering is the way that the bible came into being as opposed to the quran. Very interesting when you start digging.

The important thing is to actually do the research rather than rely on the media. Consider both documents, how they came about and what they mean to the world- then make up your own mind. :D

Well said Keg. Just because things....of whatever horrible nature...were ever done in the name of Christianity....doesn't mean that we cannot now say that they were wrong then and would be wrong now. A sentiment sadly lacking from apologists for the terrorists.
Thank goodness there are not now squads of aggrieved Christian suicide bombers wanting revenge.....

Keg

Always nice to read your balanced views of the world & the industry we serve.

However, if you are Arabic you would call the book of revelations the Qoran. For those (my self included) less versed on Mohammeds accounts the Koran or Korahn would suffice.:8

Okay, so my comments weren't liked but I fail to see how anyone could accept "nuking one people but not the other" as acceptable! :ooh:

Anyway, I was going to post some other stuff but at the risk of getting the thread locked I decided against it. :}
However I reckon whatever "organisation" behind this latest ploy is no doubt still laughing at the fact they managed to grind an entire transportation network across at least two nations to a halt without actually blowing anything up. Explosions or not they still managed to cause havoc. :hmm:

The crusades are still on ,nothing changed exept the weapons and technology.
As heavan is the greatest place in the afterlife then most muslims cannot wait to get there , but i think they want to take some infidels with them just in case they are wrong.
That way theyll have someting to attack on the other side.
Just wait till the first group let go their nukes , and its not a case of will but when.
The humans do not deserve the Earth....

Sadly

sadly the Use of nukes, by either side is the only thing i fear in this new WWIII, the constant flighting in the middle east has been going on over 2 Millenia, nothing has, and nothing will change in that part of the world. the only difference now is Modern technology has made it possible for these islamic fanatics to take their wars to the global stage.

it will be a truly sad day when one of these terrorist organisations gets hold of a nuclear weapon and detonates it on western soil, for it will spell the end for the entire Middle east region. it may not happen for another decade or more, i pray it never happens, but if it does, sure enough. the general pupulation of western society will say enough is enough and the entire region will be turned into the planets glass factory.

So we're allowed to commit mass murder to provide for our own 'freedom'?

We need to avoid the same distorted, "we're right and you're wrong" view the terrorists use to justify their actions in the first place. It only facilitates inescapable conflict.

I'm going on holidays to the UK in September.

I'm not looking forward to being forced to check in my $2000+ SLR Camera.

Does that mean you cant buy duty free grog now .............
In case you give it to a terrorist onboard to detroy the aircraft you are flying when you could have done a better job yourself...

No, but they weren't anything to do with Christianity, either. It was a political objective (conquering the Holy Land and defeating Saladin) that was justified by claiming to be the will of God (the only way that soldiers could be recruited for the task). That is the thing with atrocities that have been committed in the name of Christianity - none of them are sanctioned by the book. That is also why you don't see Christians martyring themselves or declaring holy war - it is inconsistent with their faith.

Assuming that you are talking about Iraq - I can't imagine what else you could be talking about - that has nothing to do with Christianity either, that is all about oil.

True!

The sky is falling!
 

Did anyone read the piece in Saturday's Melbourne Herald Sun, from a Russian perspective?
Is it just the "Coalition Of The Willing" that is experiencing this nonsense or is it all Countries?
The best way for a Government to assure its constituents is to create fear in their minds in the first place then set out to assure them! Now let us offer our thanks and praise to the most dominant religion (belief system) of them all... George Bush.
I guess it has kept the "War Against Terror" fresh in the minds of Aussies given all that is going on between Israel and Lebanon. After all, they have been media hoggs for the last 3 -4 week

Take the train.:hmm:

Madrid? London bombings...

ill stick to my car thanks.
or my Own plane.

A320... I'm off to the UK a bit later this month, so I'll "see" yer AUD2K SLR and raise with a AUD 3K Lappy!:eek:

Apart from the 1967 Six Day War, of course....

Don't forget the Pakis, they're no slouches in the world of international terrorism these days.

I hear you brother.... :ok:

I fully understand the sentiment. People who are caught in the middle like CC, already mentioned above, I sympathise with but having been all over the ME, the reality is the entire place is filled with hot-head, easily-offended, quick-to-anger people who are all deluded into banging their heads 5 times a day and who, although they may not be violent themselves, are certainly not particularly bothered when a western target is struck.

And why should they be, for them the west is "the other side", hated or not. Just as we choose our side. The sad part is, we encourage them to choose their ways in our own countries whilst they are smart (or cunning) enough to stamp that sort of dissension out in their own countries.

How many churches are there in Saudi Arabia?

Not by this one.

The trouble is that we have been co-opted into an unwinnable "war on terror" that can never be won because terrorism is a tactic, not a nation state. We might just as well have a "war on thunderstorms".

Willingness to commit terrorism is a state of mind that is not easily detectable. The means to commit an act of terrorism can be a contact lens cleaner bottle of liquid, or a hammer, or a wrench, or a match.

The only sensible statement I've seen on the subject was from a retired British policeman who stated "communities are the only vehicles that can fight terror", and I think he is absolutely right.

If you look at the muslim community that was home to some of those currently alleged to be terrorists, its a pretty sorry dead end mess.

I've been saying exactly the same thing for the last 5 years, Sunfish. However, from Bush and Howard downwards, it's always been too politcally incorrect to say what it's REALLY a war on...............

I live in an Asian Islamic country and see a very great difference between it and ME and west asian Muslim countries.

The difference between the peaceful Islamic countries and the violent ones is simple...standard of living.

In Malaysia and Brunei essentially everyone has a good standard of living and is well educated...the same is true to a lesser extent in Indonesia....and yes I know the Bali bombers are Indonesian...those 20 individuals as well as the other 290 million who were as horrified as we were.

You don't see much in the way of anti western sentiment in these places...what little you do see is a vague anti US/Isreal sentiment but they don't feel strong enough about it to really be bothered one way or another.

The violence in the Islamic parts of southern Thailand is not directed at the west but at the Thai Govt...because that part of Thailand is fairly poverty stricken....same thing in the southern Philipines...small groups of unhappy young men attacking their respective Govts.

In Iraq there was no anti western sentiment (in the population) until the west went in and completely fecked up getting rid of Saddam.

I have been to Pakistan and Iran post 911 and did not detect the slightest anti western sentiment in the people I met and dealt with....some people asked if I was American and that was it...they smiled broadly when I said no. The Iranian Govt is fairly fundamentalist in its views but the population is certanly not. Iranians are not Arabs they are Persian..there is a difference. Iranians by nature are very moderate in their outlook. Pakistan is only a center of terrorism because so much of the place is completely beyond any Govts control...it's western border country is truly the wild west...it is essentially a geographically handy place for feckwits to hide and no bastard will ever find them....likewise Afghansitan.

Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, Turkey, Palestine, Egypt, Jordan, Malaysia, Indonesia, Brunei and a host of other Islamic countries have minority Christian populations who worship in churches openly and without drama. If the Quiran really said kill all christians where-ever you find them surely they would start with the people 3 streets across just because they were handy....but they don't. Islam in fact believes that JC was a great prophet...not the son of god but definately a cool dude.

The common factor in all this terrorist BS is a small group of radicals with unlimited access to LOTS of poor, angry, disaffected young men. Rather like the IRA really.

And therein lays another truth. Islamic Terrorism is to Islam as Irish Republican Terrorism was to Catholicism. Basically **** all.

Seperate 'angry and disaffected' from 'young man' and you'd go a long way to solving terrorism...what 17 year old with a sense of a happy, fulfilling, positive future will willingly strap a bomb to himself?

I would suggest the number would be so small, but not zero, as to be an insignificant problem as opposed to the all consuming problem we seem to have now.

When Islamic countries in the ME are not run by dictators who hoard the resources of their countries unto themsleves we might have a chance to live in a peaceful world...because the grunt labour will have been removed from the clutches of the fundamentalists.

Hezbollah and Hamas is a slightly different version of that same problem.

Like North Korea is the last bastian of fundamentalist Marxist doctrine, Hezbollah is the last really big group who's avowed policy is the destruction of the State of Israel. Everyone else in the Region, certainly all the nation states, has had a go and received a sound flogging, subsequently given up, and made permanent peace with Israel. Hezbollah and Hamas are the last two groups hanging on to power, and that is what it's about, by attacking the State of Israel...and Iranian Clerics are happy to feed them money and whatever else they need to keep bashing away at a dead idea...maintaining a local boogy man...ending the state of Israel.

Hamas and the PLO under Arafat DID NOT want peace because then Arafat and his cohort would lose power. Arafat died and there seemed a chance to resolve the Palestinian problems...but Hamas got stuck in to stir things up so the west bank is in turmoil too....funny that...when there is a vague chance that Palestine might get what they apparently want...autonomy...Hamas and Hezbollah start a war. Hezbollah got what they wanted 6 years ago when the Israelis pulled out of southern Lebanon..so they spent 6 years hoarding things 'what go bang' and digging fighting positions then attacked Israel.

Do you think the populations under their control voted for it? Of course not...but it aint hard to convince a population living in poverty that the big boogy man who lives over there is attacking us again..for no reason....they have been at it so long nobody in the general population can remember who started what...The Israelis keep bombing us so our angry, dissaffected young men go to defend us with the only weapon they have....or is it the other way around...who stands to lose the most if the general population works it out?

Not the Israelis that is certain...maybe the leadership of Hamas and Hezbollah?

Syria's big 'want' is the Gollan Heights back....Israel kept them after Syria attacked them one time. Lets see the last time Israel gave back territory it was used as a quiet spot to build an arsenal...what do we think will happen if Israel gives Syria an elevated quiet spot....one with a really good view of Israel? Does anyone think that Hezbolah might set up shop?

Tomorrow, actually today Oz time, I will operate LHR-DXB and I will fly over Beirut and about 20nm east of Damascus...which is in the Bekaa Valley just north of the Gollan Heights...which is a mountain chain that separates Syria from Israel. That whole portion of the flight, from overhead Beirut to the Syrian/Jordanian border, will be about 30 minutes...it aint a very wide area...a crossroads is a good analogy... and yes, you can watch the war happening under you as you fly by.