Good post there Chuck but I am not sure if I agree that the problem comes purely from poor disaffected countries. The London Bombers and probably most of the conspirators in this plot would not fit that description.

The views expressed by one of Britains top policemen in the SMH article:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/fac...407675136.html would probably encapsulate the feelings of most people these days, with the exception of the PC brigade.

Profiling however would not have caught David Hicks or the member of this plot who was an Islamic convert. Terrorists organisations take advantage of the idealism of youth and the tendency of young people to see things in shades of black or white, for their purposes. You will never see the Bin Ladens of this world strapping a bomb to themselves, they think they have too much to live for, such as a Pan Islamic Superstate headed by... well... themselves.

Maybe we should see what would happen if we suggested that anyone under 30, regardless of race or religion should be singled out for special searches. Now that would be a debate worth watching!

The Islamic youth of Britain, or at least enough of them, are dissaffected...many may be educated but that is just one part of the issue....you're right though. It's no real challenge for people of a certain 'talent' to wind up young men who feel a bit angry about this or that and turn a very few into terror bombers...so in that sense yes it is a Muslim community problem on one level.

Unfortunately the violence in Spain last year actually succeeded...changed the govt of the day and the incoming govt changed their foriegn policy. That has bolstered the fundamentalists...if they ever get the Brits or Yanks..or heaven forbid the Australian Govt to base the foriegn policies on 'what the Islamists think might be ok' we are ALL well and truly fecked....on that level it is our problem.

Yes the Islamists want a world wide Islamic Kalifat based around Sharia...but do you think they have told the grunt labour that?

What I find interesting about this latest drama here in London is the 'system' actually worked and stopped them/caught them...but still the mayhem at the airports?

I find it a little hard to work out why they would try and sneak explosives onto aircraft at LHR...when it would be so easy to smuggle a dozen MANPADS into SE England and sit in a tree copse in the middle of an otherwise empty field within 5nm of LHR, Gatwick, Stansted or Manchester and simply shoot down airliners as they file past between 4000 and 8000' on arrival/departure...a much more powerful statement than 3 or 4 widebodies blowing up over the Atlantic out of view.

Fear not Oz....

UK reduces threat level

Earlier, Britain reduced its security threat level from "critical" to the "severe" level, where it has been for most of the past year.
The Government raised the threat level to "critical" - the highest of five levels - on Thursday before arresting 24 people who were allegedly plotting to blow up US-bound passenger jets.
The Department for Transport's website says following the downgrade of the threat level, passengers will be allowed to carry one item of hand baggage through the airport security search point.
But the ban on liquids remains, with the few exceptions being prescription medicines in liquid form as long as they are verified as authentic, and baby milk and liquid baby food, so long as it is tasted by the accompanying passenger.
The statement says laptop computers will be allowed into the cabin of aircraft, but must be removed from the bag and placed in a tray when being X-ray screened.
Home Secretary John Reid says there has now been time to assess intelligence after the police operation.
"The police believe that the main suspects in the alleged plot were arrested last week," he said.
"The public needs to know that there may be other people out there who may be planning an attack against the UK. That is why there are a number of other security service operations under way."

MANPADS are too expensive and too complicated to obtain on the blackmarket. The market is full of undercover operatives luring Islamic goons into a flytrap aswell. Nor are MANPADS guarranteed airline killers.

Tracability a factor too. Iranian supplied SAM's say, in an actual or foiled attack, would give a nice excuse for punitive strikes against her nuclear installations.

Topping off with the fact, suicide bombing chills the Western pysche more effectively, according to Al Queda. Hamas has been quoted as saying this aswell; life loving Jews fear the suicide bomber concept more than any other form of terrorism.

BA Flight Turns Back
 

From ABC Web Site
Last Update: Monday, August 14, 2006. 10:38am (AEST)
BA flight turns around after mobile phone rings
A British Airways (BA) flight carrying 231 people from London to New York has turned around mid-flight and returned to London's Heathrow airport after a mobile phone started ringing.
A BA spokeswoman says flight BA179 has returned to Heathrow as a precautionary measure.
"A mobile phone was located on board the aircraft which none of the passengers appear to own," she said.
Britain imposed severe restrictions on hand luggage on board aircraft - including a ban on all electronic equipment - on Thursday after police said they thwarted a plot to bomb US-bound jets in mid-flight.
The alleged plot involved smuggling liquid explosives disguised as drinks or medicine and detonating them with a mobile phone or other electronic device.
The BA spokeswoman said the captain assessed the situation with the BA security team at Heathrow Airport, and although it was decided that it was safe to continue, the captain decided to return to Heathrow as a precaution.
"The captain explained his decision to the 217 passengers on board the aircraft," she said.
The aircraft will be security-searched at Heathrow before it departs again for New York this evening.
The spokeswoman said 12 cabin crew and two flight crew were also on board.
"We apologise to customers for the inconvenience but their safety is our number 1 priority and we will always err on the side of caution," she said.

Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims...

(emphasis added)

That's a bit of a sweeping statement :yuk:

I'm not sure that there were too many Muslims involved on either side in Northern Ireland and I can't recall reading reports that Aum Shinrikyo having a large number of Muslims on its books.

Other non-Muslim terrorist organisations of recent years:
Baader Meinhof - German
Carlos - Venezuelan
Red Brigades - Italy and Japan
Oklahoma City bomber - American
FARC - Colombian

I'm not defending the current crop but KLN, your generalisation is far too wide and not really a useful addition to the debate.

Well I don't think that the Oklahoma bomber was an organisation, and others such as Baader-Meinhof have not been active for many years.

On the other hand, there are thousands of Islamic terror groups, factions, and cells, all around the world.

Chimbu

It does say that, I checked... maybe you should read it. More to the point, Islam may accept Jesus as a great prophet, but the Islamic litmus test is how you think of Mohammed, not Jesus. Unles you can say "there is only one God, and Mohammed is His Prophet", you ain't in the club... and if you won't say that, you will probably end up dead if the person asking you is armed and in a bad mood. The danger is not so much what is written, but the way in which it can be used to justify Jihad.

The reason that most Muslims don't simply go out and kill their Christian neighbours, is that most are as nominal as the Christians next door... they don't want to fight. It is the extremists you have to worry about - the numbers of which are increasing geometrically.

The reason Islam is so dangerous, is that if you are faithful and go to the mosque five times a day, you will almost certainly hear, five times a day, how the West is corrupt and evil, and how America is the Great Satan. This routinely occurs in British mosques too - it has always amazed me that the Brits allow it, as it is basically sedition. Not only that, but in all the madrassas (islamic schools) around Birmingham, Bradford etc., the same message of hate is preached. Muslim children grow up in the UK believing, as a matter of course, that these things are true, and the British government allows it - in fact, they encourage it. The dangerous youths aren't the disaffected ones, but the "educated" ones. Of course, the problem is a lot worse in the Middle East - but if you really want to scare yourself, look at how islam has spread around the world... chilling.

Add to the mix a religion that encourages it's adherents to kill themselves in return for instant access to paradise and a large number of virgins (the actual number varies depending on who you talk to), and you have a major problem. The people blowing themselves up aren't doing it out of a sense of duty, they really, really want to die.

The only way you can deal with that is to deal with the root cause, and that will involve giving up our PC notions and making some tough calls.

If it were me, I would close ALL religious schools, monitor the mosques, and come down very hard on anyone who preaches violence.

It is disturbing to learn one of the people arrested in London as a suspect in the terrorist conspiracy is a Jet Airways employee based at Heathrow.

OK Taily, noted and agreed.

Let me reprhase so I am a little more specific:

Not all Muslims are terrorists (that were involved in Sept 11, US embassy bombings, USS Cole, London bus bombings, British Embassy bombing, recent hand luggage bombing plan, etc), but all terrorists (that were involved in Sept 11, US embassy bombings, USS Cole, London bus bombings, British Embassy bombing, recent hand luggage bombing plan, etc) are Muslims...

And I beleive this to be an entirely useful and appropriate addition to this debate.

MOR

KLN's earlier post didn't limit itself to 'organisations' or 'recent miscreants'.

KLN
Fair 'nuff and you provide an accurate list of recent events. Indeed I'd add Bali, the Limburg, WTC '93 and the US embassies in East Africa.

But keep in mind (f'rinstance):
- Omagh
- Bishopsgate
- Canary Wharf
- Aldwych bus
- Waterloo station (ever wondered why there are no public bins on the tube or in the City?)
- Lord Mountbatten
- 4 Aussies in Holland

My point is simply that terrorism has been with us for years; the current Muslim-centred caper is merely the latest manifestation. That will eventually die down (no pun intended) and be replaced by some other bunch with a gripe :ugh: .

For those interested, especially ozexpat.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/group...ut_612280.hcsp

Thanks for that A320, now all we need is for QF to update themselves on the requirements, as posted on their website! I have your PMs and will respond to those shortly... thanks!:ok:

Taildragger67

Oh yes it did - my bolding:

In the english language, that word does indeed limit the list that follows it. Maybe not in Strine though... :}

Looks like they've been reading PPRuNE....

http://www.qantas.com.au/info/ukTravelAdvice?int_cam=28
;)

Gassed budgie

“Iran is responsible directly and indirectly for most of what goes under the name of terrorism today.”

Along with Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. But being allies, we kindly overlook their misdemeanors such as those that occurred on 11/9 2001.

Keg

“Do we see the same level of condemnation about the acts of Hezbollah, al qaeda, etc from the muslim community?”

I no longer live in Australia and rarely view Australian news media but outrage is indeed being expressed in Muslim communities in many places including the Middle East.

The key reasons behind the “war on terror”, like the American war (also known as the Vietnam War), will not become clear to the public until long after the event has faded into history. Only then will we fully understand the extent to which we have been manipulated and lied to.

The latest conflict involving Israel is being sold to us using very simple and short term explanations when in fact Israeli forces have probably been planning their latest adventure for years and have much to gain from creating a “buffer zone” reaching as far toward the Litani River as possible. Desalination plants, oil pipelines and a buffer from Iranian reprisals following a US attack are more pressing strategic aims for Israel than the return of some kidnapped soldiers.

the slight difference...
 

Tail' is correct in asserting that "terrorism has been with us for years" but the difference now is that, unlike previous waves, the terrorists actually seek from the outset of their planning, to kill themselves too while attempting to make their point. That's a particularly radical muslim thing to be aiming for which has altogether too much tacit support, from even the less radical in that community, for my taste. Outcry after such events seems often to be more like 'we condemn this attack.... but you have to understand their point!' I don't accept that when ordinary people going about their daily routine are the targets.

Big deail oicur. I bet you that tucked away in some in the bottom drawer the Aussies have plans for attacking Indon.... :eek: oops I mean Kamaria. :E

I bet you we've spoken to the US about them too! :E :ok:

oicur12

You can do better than that. A judo-christian conspricacy theory?

State sponsored terrorism ( Iran ) versus violent, dissident terrorist groups within dictatorships ( Pakistain, Egypt and loosely Saudia Arabia ). That's on your opening remarks.

Israeli strategic objectives a given on your last. Why else do you invade a country in modern times?

The link you offered was even less convincing. Firstly, of course the Israelis would be gauging the political support of their biggest supporters and supplier of arms. Secondly, to suggest the Israelis, who have dismantled Arab armies conventionally on numerous occasions, and have been embroiled in a bitter invasion of the Lebanon in the 80's, would seek American military foresight absurd!

But I must say. Although brutal, Vietnam style carpet bombing south of the Litani, may have been more useful in countering Hizbollah tunnelling than modern techniques. But we used up Western will and patience with this style of warfare, on a relatively passive people who have no oil nor fervour for religious martyrdom. ;)

A320... I just read it and the final sentence gave me cause to wonder, as it could be read either way in regard to Singapore, where I'll be transitting. I duly phoned the FF Centre to enquire about it and, when the operator read the same paragraph, she agreed with me that it could be read in two ways, with the difference being that normal carry-on baggage allowances might not be allowed at SIN.

Anyway, it took them about 10 minutes to check and confirm that the sentence was supposed to mean that normal carry-on is currently okay at SIN. Thought I'd post that, in case other folks had the same problem.

Gnads,

“You can do better than that. A judo-christian conspricacy theory?”

US/Israeli consultation prior to an Israeli military strike does not a conspiracy theory make my friend and I suspect that you know it. You will have to work harder than to simply attempt to trump all arguments with the lame “conspiracy theory” accusation.

“State sponsored terrorism ( Iran ) versus violent, dissident terrorist groups within dictatorships ( Pakistain, Egypt and loosely Saudia Arabia ). That's on your opening remarks.”

Perhaps you are not aware that the Pakistani ISI provided the lion’s share of funding and training to the mujaheddin and later to Al Qaeda (along with the CIA). According to Zbigniew Brzezinski, the Saudi royal family has also been closely connected to Al Qaeda and for years have been providing financial assistance to Taliban fighters studying in Pakistani madrassas. If this doesn’t constitute state sponsored terrorism then at the very least it highlights how willing these regimes are to condone terrorism when the terrorist activities and aims are closely aligned with those of the state. As for state sponsored terrorism, have you ever heard of the “School of the America’s”? But that’s a different story I guess.

“Israeli strategic objectives a given on your last. Why else do you invade a country in modern times?”

For precisely the reasons I mentioned in my first post. I am simply making the point that the public is very nieve to think that this latest war is the result of 2 soldiers being kidnapped. Of course a much larger strategic objective is at stake and has been for a long time. Unfortunately though, the general public does not understand that apparently insignificant unrelated events are often pre meditated, manufactured catalysts to kick start a much wider, cohesive agenda that our leaders do not want us to understand. The gulf of Tonkin incident.

Was the Gulf War I really about liberating the freedom loving people of Kuwait from the clutches of the baby killing Iraq’s. Is the war on drugs in Colombia really just about drugs. Was the invasion of Afghanistan really to seek out evildoers who hijack planes. Was the rose revolution in Georgia really about giving oppressed people freedom. Was the NATO bombing of Kosovo really about stopping ethnic cleansing. Was the invasion of Iraq really about WMD. Was the carpet bombing of Southern Lebanon really about kidnapped soldiers and small rockets.

“Firstly, of course the Israelis would be gauging the political support of their biggest supporters and supplier of arms”.

Once again, this argument is not contradictory to my opinion. Israel is a proxy military force employed by Washington as a central player in reshaping the “new Middle East” (Rice) and as such is working closely with and sometimes under the direction of, Washington. Like my previous paragraph, my point is that the public has been mislead into believing that the invasion of Lebanon was purely an Israeli response. You and I both know Israel would be relying heavily on Washington for satellite imagery and intelligence, not to mention the rush delivery of JDAMS. It was almost amusing to see Rice discussing a “ceasefire” while the well placed neocon John Bolton was doing his level best to stall such an event until Israel neared its objectives.

“Secondly, to suggest the Israelis, who have dismantled Arab armies conventionally on numerous occasions, and have been embroiled in a bitter invasion of the Lebanon in the 80's, would seek American military foresight absurd!”

At a tactical level Israel has proven itself to be a capable fighting force (although the conflict with Lebanon in the eighties relied heavily on US Navy strike aircraft and the USS Missouri). Strategically though, Israel would launch military operations “off the reservation” without a knod from Washington at its own peril.

You are pulling a rabbit out of a hat there oicur.

The Israelis completely dismantled the Syrians in the Bekaa Valley before the arrival of peacekeeping forces to oversee the withdrawel of the PLO from Lebanon. The Missouri shellings, disasterous carrier borne USN strikes, and ineffective punitive French airstrikes, were retaliation for the bombings of US Marines and French troops in Beirut. The West was suckered into a civil war, complicated by Syrian & Iranian interests.

Israel has arguably the second most powerful air force in the world- couple this with the very short distances to southern Lebanon and you have a very high sortie generation. It never needed American air support in the Lebanon invasion. The airstrike you mentioned- two USN jets shotdown- it was in fact the Americans who could have used the help of the Israelis.

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend"- old Arab proverb. Try to understand the Middle East, before interpreting Western foreign policy in the region

For those that aren't familiar with the Qur'an, the text below has been extracted from the chapter 'The Cow'.

These are the very passages from the Qur'an that the Islamic Jihadists are using to excuse their murderous, dispicable Holy war (Holy ?) against the Infidels of the western democracies and anyone else for that matter, that doesn't agree with their own warped view of things.
Are they really fighting for Allah? The small minority of might be, you know, the ones who's religiuos mindset is still stuck in the seventh century.
But the rest of them are there because they're simply pissed off that the bulk of the planet has it better than they do and they're to dumb to figure out why that might be. As I said in an earlier post, the rest of the world has well and truly passed them by.

That might be correct. But when did you last hear the Pope lending his and the Vaticans support to the nutters at the KKK or the Waco Branch Davidians?

Yes, again correct. Well nearly. Five individuals from the group handpicked by the PM to educate the rest of the country on the Islamic faith and their beliefs have made it known recently that they support Hezbollah in it's fight against Israel. One wonders what apalling attrocities this terrorist organisation would have to commit before these people who are tasked with the responsibility of leading the Islamic faith into a more enlightened and contempary sphere within the general comminuty, would say 'enough is enough'.
That fact of the matter is, the movers and shakers who pass themselves off as the leaders of the Islamic faith and muslim society here in Australia, aren't doing anywhere near enough to dispell the notion that sometimes they appear to be to aligned with their muslim jihadist brothers in the middle east.

In an earlier post I suggested that some of the regimes (or what pass for regimes in that part of the world) have sat idly by and watched whilst others have done their bidding for them. And I must point out here, that I was refering to regimes and not individuals or ethnic groups.
The one regime/government that I didn't metion, was the one perhaps more responsible than any other for the current situation in Lebanon. It was of course, the Lebanese government itself. AWOL, a gross dereliction of duties. That's being far to kind.
The following article appeared in 'The New Repulic' recently and was written by Michael Behe, a well known and respected journalist from Beirut.

Quote:

---

The politicians, journalists and intellectuals of Lebanon have, of late, been experiencing the shock of their lives. They knew full well that Hezbollah had created an independent state in our country, a state including all the ministers and parallel institutions, duplicating those of Lebanon. What they did not know--and are discovering with this war, and what has petrified them with surprise and terror--is the extent of this phagocytosis.
In fact, our country had become an extension of Iran, and our so-called political power also served as a political and military cover for the Islamists of Teheran. We suddenly discovered that Teheran had stocked more than 12,000 missiles, of all types and calibers, on our territory and that they had patiently, systematically, organized a suppletive force, with the help of the Syrians, that took over, day after day, all the rooms in the House of Lebanon. Just imagine it: We stock ground-to-ground missiles, Zilzals, on our territory and the firing of such devices, without our knowledge, has the power to spark a regional strategic conflict and, potentially, bring about the annihilation of Lebanon.
We knew that Iran, by means of Hezbollah, was building a veritable Maginot line in the south, but it was the pictures of Maroun el Ras and Bint Jbail that revealed to us the magnitude of these constructions. This amplitude made us understand several things at once: that we were no longer masters of our destiny; that we do not possess the most basic means necessary to reverse the course of this state of things; and that those who turned our country into an outpost of their Islamic doctrine's combat against Israel did not have the slightest intention of willingly giving up their hold over us.
The national salvation discussions that concerned the application of Resolution 1559, and which included most of the Lebanese political movements, were simply for show. Iran and Syria had not invested billions of dollars on militarizing Lebanon in order to wage their war, simply to give in to the desire of the Lebanese and the international community for them to pack up their hardware and set it up back home.
And then, the indecision, the cowardice, the division and the irresponsible behavior of our leaders are such that they had no effort to make to show their talent. No need to engage a wrestling match with the other political components of the Land of Cedars. The latter showed themselves--and continue to show themselves--to be inconsistent.
Of course, our army, reshaped over the years by the Syrian occupier so it could no longer fulfill its role as protector of the nation, did not have the capacity to tackle the militamen of the Hezbollah. Our army, whom it is more dangerous to call upon--because of the explosive equilibrium that constitutes each of its brigades--than to shut up behind locked doors in its barracks. A force that is still largely loyal to its former foreign masters, to the point of being uncontrollable; to the point of having collaborated with the Iranians to put our coastal radar stations at the disposal of their missiles, that almost sunk an Israeli boat off the shores of Beirut. As for the non-Hezbollah elements in the government, they knew nothing of the existence of land-to-sea missiles on our territory ... that caused the totally justified destruction of all our radar stations by the Hebrews' army. And even then we are getting off lightly in these goings-on.
It is easy now to whine and gripe, and to play the hypocritical role of victims. We know full well how to get others to pity us and to claim that we are never responsible for the horrors that regularly occur on our soil. Of course, that is nothing but rubbish! The Security Council's Resolution 1559--that demanded that our government deploy our army on our sovereign territory, along our international border with Israel and that it disarm all the militia on our land--was voted on September 2, 2004.
We had two years to implement this resolution and thus guarantee a peaceful future to our children, but we did absolutely nothing. Our greatest crime--which was not the only one!--was not that we did not succeed, but that we did not attempt or undertake anything. And that was the fault of none else than the pathetic Lebanese politicians.
Our government, from the very moment the Syrian occupier left, let ships and truckloads of arms pour into our country. Without even bothering to look at their cargo. They jeopardized all chances for the rebirth of our country by confusing the Cedar Revolution with the liberation of Beirut. In reality, we had just received the chance--a sort of unhoped-for moratorium--that allowed us to take the future into our own hands, nothing more.
To think that we were not even capable of agreeing to "hang" Émile Lahoud--Al-Assad's puppet--on Martyrs' Square and that he is still president of what some insist on calling our republic. ... There is no need to look any further: We are what we are, that is to say, not much.
All those who assume public and communicational responsibilities in this country are responsible for this catastrophe. Except those of my colleagues, journalists, and editors, who are dead, assassinated by the Syrian thugs, because they were clearly less cowardly than those who survived. And Lahoud remained at Baadbé, the president's palace!
And when I speak of a catastrophe, I do not mean the action accomplished by Israel in response to the aggression against its civilians and its army, which was produced from our soil and that we did strictly nothing to avoid, and for which we are consequently responsible. Any avoiding of this responsibility--some people here do not have the minimal notions of international law necessary to understand!--means that Lebanon, as a state, does not exist.

---

I think that just about says it all.

I think, within the context of the current crisis, that is about as close to 'spot on' as it is possible to be....I wonder how long that journalist will survive:(

I saw a retired Lebanese army General interviewed last week...he straight out said that 1/2 the Lebanese Army is Shiite and will not fight Hezbolah who are also Shiite. Deploying the Lebanese Army to the south will be like sending 15000 reinforcements to Hezbolah.

The French, Germans and whomever would be nuts to send their own soldiers, armed or otherwise, into that situation.

We have not seen the end to this crisis... and once again the UN is functioning in cloud cuckoo land:ugh:

The west has lost the ability to wage war the way war needs to be waged...the 'other side' understand this well and uses it to their advantage time after time. Can anyone imagine how WW2 would have been run had Germany and Japan been awash with CNN, BBC etc Journos and camera people?

Israel dropped leaflets all over Southern Lebanon which essentially said "If you're not interested in fighting leave...if you are, we'll be right back".

I am convinced that the main reason Hezbolah has widespread community based support in the south is because the community has been brainwashed. People in the west need to understand that the populations in these types of countries don't have the access to information we do...they only get what Nasralah and his cohort want them to hear. The educated elite in the north of Lebanon do have access to information and often hold a different view as a result.

MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of people world wide don't even know 911 happened at all and many that may have heard are told it was a Zionist plot to anger the US population against Islam. For God's sake there are educated Americans who believe that!

What do you think Nasralah says to a grieving Lebanese parent holding the broken body of a 6 year old killed in an air raid when they ask why this happened?

"Well for 60 years we have been trying to destroy the State of Israel (a euphamism for kill all Israelis) and dozens of times each year our angry and dissaffected youths walk over the border into Israel (after we have wound them up tighter than a clock and pointed them that way) and blow up bus loads of Israelis, often children...and then 5 years ago 20 of our Saudi brothers hijacked 4 American airliners and flew them into the tallest buildings in New York killing nearly 6000 of the Godless infadells...oh and a bunch of Muslims too, but you get that...Oh and then there was the time some of your brothers blew up some embassies in Kenya...oh and we attacked one of their ships...actually on various occassions we have attacked quite a few of their ships and then there was the time..."

"Of course Saddam has been a bit of an embarrassment...he's murdered lots of Muslim women and children...actually 100s of thousands...not sure why...he had a real long war with Iran too...can't remember why...and well...it's just better to be at war than be a nobody that no-one has ever heard of...but fear not my sister, the fighting will stop when we have taken over the world and killed all the people who object"

What average Lebanese, Palestinian, Irani etc would not react along the lines of "Well for FECKS SAKE LEAVE THEM ALONE"

The average man and women the world over wants the exact same thing...a job that provides a roof over their head, food on the table, an education for their children and to live their lives in peace while worshiping, or not, the God of their choice. It does NOT matter whether they are Palestinian, Lebanese, Afghan, Pakistani, Syrian, Irani, Saudi or from Charleville, New York or Manchester.

When the west can work out how to hold the nutcases (both terrorist and political) at bay long enough to give that to the people of Lebanon, Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq etc we will live in peace...and, sadly, not before.