QF Fleet Order Announcement Today?
 

Can anyone in the know confirm the QF board is meeting today and expect to announce the delayed fleet buy? Or has it been put on ice until further notice? :ugh:

Yeah apparently 2pm is the go -

Qantas Airways to Announce A$20 Bln Fleet Order Today (Correct)
Dec. 14 (Bloomberg) -- Qantas Airways Ltd., Australia's biggest airline, will today announce its order for new planes, valued at as much as A$20 billion ($15 billion).

Chief Executive Geoff Dixon will hold a briefing at 2 p.m. in Sydney, the company said in a statement e-mailed to Bloomberg.

Qantas in August said it may buy new aircraft including Boeing Co.'s 787 and Airbus SAS's A350 to fly short international and domestic routes. Boeing and Airbus have doubled their 2005 orders from the previous year, helped by rising demand in Asia for more fuel-efficient planes.

Qantas's current fleet of 207 planes is made up of Boeing's 747, 767, 737 and 717 models plus Airbus's A330s, A320s and Dash 8s.

I havent seen any QANTAS A320s (only Jetstar) - is that something which is about to happen?

Looks like its going boeing.

115 x 787

Ahab

Decided against hub-busters. Were they not originally looking at a plan to replace older 400's?

Shame they haven't announced the 777. Hopefully they will in time to come - a 777/787 fleet would be good.

Also Jetstar get the 4 A330-200's. Do they replace them from mainline with anything?

Boeing Wins Order From Qantas for as Many as 115 Airplanes
 

Boeing Wins Order From Qantas for as Many as 115 Airplanes

Dec. 14 (Bloomberg) -- Boeing Co., the world's second- largest commercial aircraft maker, won an order for as many as 115 airplanes from Qantas Airways Ltd., Australia's largest carrier.

The order is for 65 Boeing 787s for deliver starting from 2008 and rights for an additional 50 787s, the Sydney-based carrier said. Boeing, which has reached a record 800 firm airplane orders as of Nov. 30, beat out larger rival Airbus SAS.

Can't see the media release on the QANTAS site, however it is on the ASX site...

Australian Stock Exchange

Look for the QAN announcement at 2pm

QF Orders 787s
 

Announcement made today on ASX. They're coming! :D

It's on there now The PM;)

Such a shame Qantas media is so slow Buster!

Shaw stockbroking

Qantas go with Boeing
14/12/05 By: Stephen Blaxhall

Qantas Airways Limited (QAN) today announced that as part of its fleet renewal program review the group had decided to acquire 115 Boeing 787 aircraft. Under the fleet plan, the Qantas Group will acquire 65 Boeing 787s for Qantas mainline and Jetstar for delivery from 2008 and rights for an additional 50 B787s for growth.

The decision follows the airline’s request for proposal to Airbus and Boeing, which were announced in August 2005, for the provision of twin-engine wide-body aircraft.

The group advised that it intends to intendeds to fund the purchase of the new aircraft from operating cash flow.

“This fleet plan will give us a modern fleet offering maximum flexibility, lower seat mile costs and greater fuel efficiency,” noted Ms Margaret Jackson, Chairman of Qantas.


Ms Jackson added that the new acquisitions would allow for expected growth on international routes with the addition of new destinations as well as replacing the existing Qantas Group’s fleet of wide-body Boeing 767-300s.

The Chief Executive Officer of Qantas, Mr Geoff Dixon, said that the Boeing 787 provided Qantas with the ability to fly further to more point-to-point destinations throughout the world at a cost equivalent to operating larger aircraft like the Boeing 747- 400.

“One of our clear priorities is for Jetstar to be ready for international operations by early 2007, with the fastest possible transition to new technology, more efficient aircraft,” he added.

Jetstar will start its international operations with an interim fleet of four A330-200 aircraft and then transition to a fleet of 10 new Boeing 787 aircraft, with delivery of Jetstar’s first B787 scheduled for August 2008, Mr Dixon advsied.

Qantas mainline operations will take delivery of the first B787 for Qantas mainline operations in July 2009, he added.

“The Boeing 787 is ideal for operating to Asia, as well the USA and Europe, and with 300 seats, will enable both Qantas and Jetstar to closely target markets without compromising efficiency,” commented Mr Dixon.

“Its new technology engines, cutting-edge airframe and increased seat count also offer a significant reduction in costs per ASK compared to the current Boeing 767,” he noted.

Mr Dixon said Qantas’ current order was a mix of B787-8 and later model B787-9 aircraft.

The B787-9 model will be ready for service in 2011 and will fly further than the B787-8 but with capacity for 50 additional passengers. The B787 goes into production in 2006, with its first flight planned for 2007 and certification, delivery and entry into service in 2008.

At 1430 AEDT Qantas were up 17c at $3.92

==============================================
AAP

Qantas chooses Boeing for fleet program December 14, 2005 - 2:44PM

Qantas Airways Ltd says it will acquire 115 Boeing 787 aircraft as part of its fleet renewal program.

Qantas will take delivery of acquire of the first 65 aircraft from 2008 at a list price of $13 billion.

"Obviously with the 115 aircraft it gets up to about $23 to $24 billion," chief executive Geoff Dixon said.

The decision follows Qantas' request to Airbus and Boeing in August for twin-engine wide-body aircraft.

Mr Dixon said the tender had been very competitive, with excellent options proposed by both Boeing and Airbus.

"The Boeing 787 provides breakthrough technology, enabling us to fly further to more point-to-point destinations throughout the world at a cost equivalent to operating larger aircraft like the Boeing 747-400," he said.

"One of our clear priorities is for Jetstar to be ready for international operations by early 2007, with the fastest possible transition to new technology, more efficient aircraft."

Mr Dixon said Jetstar would commence operations with an interim fleet of four A330-200 aircraft before moving to a fleet of 10 new Boeing 787 aircraft, with delivery of Jetstar's first B787 scheduled for August 2008.

Qantas chairman Margaret Jackson said Qantas intended to fund the purchase of the new aircraft from operating cash flow.

"These new aircraft are vital for our continued growth in the face of increasing competition in the years ahead," Ms Jackson said.

"They will cater for international capacity growth and new routes, as well as replacing the Qantas Group's fleet of wide-body Boeing 767-300s."

Qantas said it had been unable to find an aircraft that could operate non-stop flights economically between Australia and London and Australia and New York from either Airbus or Boeing.

The firm had sought tenders from the two manufacturers for ultra-long range variants of the Airbus A340 and Boeing 777.

"Neither the B777 nor the A340 provide an economical solution to our desire to have some of our services overfly mid-point hubs," Mr Dixon said.

"As well, our commercial people did not feel the savings in elapsed time between the non-stop and one-stop journey was great enough to appeal to a wide enough passenger base."

However, Mr Dixon said it would continue to talk to both manufacturers about long-range aircraft options.

Qantas current order is for a mix of B787-8 and later model B787-9 aircraft, with the 787 set to reduce costs through its new technology.

"When the B787-9 model is ready for service in 2011, it will represent an even greater engineering breakthrough, flying further than the B787-8 but with capacity for 50 additional passengers," Mr Dixon said.

Mr Dixon said the decision would provide substantial economic benefits to Australia, including a $250 million injection into the local economy.

"Boeing has also told us that the order could produce total flow-through economic benefits to Australia in the order of $2 billion," he said.

"Boeing also expects other airlines to follow Qantas lead in relation to orders for the B787. This will provide an additional contribution to Australian jobs and export dollars."

The president of Boeing Australia, Andrew Peacock, said work on the B787 will produce projected exports of around $4 billion based on total projected sales through 2030.

© 2005 AAP

==========================================

Boeing Wins Qantas Order for as Many as 115 Airplanes
 

Boeing Wins Qantas Order for as Many as 115 Airplanes (Update3)
Dec. 14 (Bloomberg) -- Boeing Co., the world\'s second- largest commercial aircraft maker, beat rival Airbus SAS to win an order worth as much as $15.5 billion for 115 airplanes from Qantas Airways Ltd., Australia\'s biggest carrier.

The order is for 65 Boeing 787s for delivery starting from 2008 and rights for an additional 50 787s, the Sydney-based carrier said. Boeing\'s 787 planes, which cost as much as $135 million each at list prices, will be ready for service in 2008.

The order, Qantas\'s biggest since 2000, will extend Chicago-based Boeing\'s lead over Toulouse, France-based Airbus and help it win more orders than its nearest rival for the first year in five. Qantas said it was looking for so-called wide-body planes that are more fuel efficient and will help meet demand for rising capacity.

`This is a very, very big commitment to growth and capturing international market share,\'\' Chief Executive Geoff Dixon told reporters in Sydney.

Qantas in August said it was looking to buy new aircraft including Boeing\'s 787 and Airbus\' A350 to fly short international and domestic routes. It\'s spending A$20 billion ($15 billion) on planes over the next 10 years. Boeing and Airbus have doubled their 2005 orders from the previous year, helped by rising demand for in Asia for more fuel-efficient planes.

Record Orders

Boeing has reached a record 800 firm airplane orders as of Nov. 30 compared with 687 orders for Airbus. The Boeing 787 seats 217 to 289 passengers.

The airline will pay for the planes out of operating cash flow. It will need to buy 145 engines to power the aircraft and will start the selection process for the engines in 2006.

Qantas said it chose Boeing planes because they could fly further with a full payload, they burn less fuel, they fly faster than other aircraft and having one type will reduce maintenance costs.

The number of international passengers flying between Australia rose 8.8 percent to 1.7 million visits in August from a year ago and 26 percent more than in 2003, according to the latest available figures by Australia\'s Bureau of Transport and Regional Economics.

Domestic air traffic was a record 3.7 million trips in September, 6.3 percent higher than last year.

Qantas carried 29 percent of international passengers leaving Australia in the 12 months ended June 30, more than double the volume of Singapore Airlines, its nearest competitor with 10 percent of the market. Qantas has lost about a quarter of its 40 percent-lead 10 years ago.

Jetstar Airways, Qantas\'s wholly-owned discount carrier, will take 10 787s, starting in August, 2008. The unit will have an interim fleet of four A330-200 aircraft as part of a plan that may see it start flying international routes as soon as next year.

The order is for a mix of 787-8 and 787-9 aircraft. The 787-9 model will enter operations in 2011 and will carry an additional 50 passengers.



To contact the reporter of this story:
Vesna Poljak in Sydney [email protected]

looks like the 744's are here to stay for a while longer too. Or are QF to purchase more A380's?

IMHO.... Qantas are taking some rather big risks with 2 unproven aircraft. First the A380 and now the 787..... Both I'm sure will be good aircraft eventually, but to order both before they have proved themselves is a risk best left to the Arab airlines and there big pockets.

The 777 would have been a better choice.... but then again I'm just a pilot.

Praise The Lord
 

Boeing, Yahoo!!
Thank the big hairy guy in the sky that it wasn't the Bloody Hyundai of the Heavens.
AkA "Scarebus".
Do I see growth and promotion for everyone?
Lets bloody hope so.
Dixon can now retire to his pub..Early I hope.

I'd love to know the details of the package. Particularly, whether or not the price includes a heavy maintenance pakage from boeing to do maintenance on the aircraft. It's a well accepted fact that the A380's will probably be maintained off-shore, due to the relatively small number of aircraft concerned I presume.


No announcement yet on whether an investment will be made to allow the 787 (and whatever other orders are made in the near future with regard to long haul) to be maintained in Australia.


Interesting times ahead for Engineers and Pilot's alike.

Night Watch, Ansett was the first international customer for the B767. We bought an "unproven" aircraft. I watched Boeing build the first prototype and messed around with the mockup.

Only early problems I recall were:

(a)Nothing in manual about a restart above 20,000 ft or suchlike. The CF6-80A's had a habit of flaming out when put to flight idle at high altitude with very low temperatures. Simple FADEC software fix. One or two single engine landings was all that happened.

(b) Problems with No(?) bearing at the back of the LP turbine. A very fancy bearing. Not sure what the fix was.

(c) Problems with HM Supervisor who acted as wingtip walker one day resulting in very expensive collision between wingtip and hangar door.

One of the thngs about buying an "unproven" aircraft is that you get an "unproven" price.

Boeing will leverage a lot of sales from the fact that the great Qantas has ordered a few.

Ansett had
Trying to fit a third person in the cockpit.

Sunfish

I think Night Watch is referring to the fact that we at CX have been launch customer or very close to it for a number of aircraft, namely the RR powered B744, Trent powered B773, A330 and the A346. All of these aircraft caused us problems in the early days, particularly the A330 where the whole fleet had to be grounded for at least 4 weeks while Airbus fixed the problems. Boeing's after sales service is second to none but Airbus frankly leaves a lot to be desired. This is why CX has gone for a proven albeit newer version of the Tripler. While I am sure the B787 will be a great aircraft like all Boeings, there are some still very big questions about how the fuselage, which is all composite will stand the ravages of time and how fatigue will be managed.

Night Watch. It's interesting to note that they are relying on figures quoted for an aircraft that has yet to fly! Anyone remember the MD11?

Capn Bloggs. It just goes to prove that AN had some "weight" at Boeing back then! (tongue removed from cheek) Fancy getting them to "build in" something that wasn't designed in! Oh well, at least we had a choice over the forward cargo door sizes!:rolleyes: DOH!

Night Watch,

I think the Rat was a pre-first-flight customer for both the 707 and 747? Indeed Billy Boeing rejigged the 707 to become the -138.

404 Titan,

As far as maint costs go with the new materials, one suspects that with the prospect of 115 airframes, Qantas has managed to wring out some guarantees out of Boeing regarding that side of things.

And wasn't Qantas pretty early-on with the RR-powered 744s?

And any news on what the plan is for the 743s? I had thought some of the (expected) 777s were going to be to replace them.

I suspect the whole race is not over yet.


Just noticed this quote in the QF announcement on the ASX website (http://www.asx.com.au//asxpdf/200512...zk5hk8t55s.pdf):

“Under the fleet plan, the Qantas Group will acquire 115 B787 aircraft”

And further on…

“[Mr Dixon] said Qantas would require up to 145 engines”

Now I’m no mathematician, but that’s (145/115 = 1.26) engines per aircraft.

Either that, or the cat’s out of the bag on Boeing’s cunning plan to roll out a single-engined variant in a few years…

Wonder if they’ll get 207m ETOPS on that lot…


It's a Boeing, so I'll be a-going... but not on less than two donks!

Off topic, but as long as you've mentioned it!! The 767 was in fact originally designed to have an F/E, and the first few where being built when it was converted to 2 pilot. It therefore wasn't a big deal to put the panel back in for the early Ansett aircraft.

404,

CX paid about US$100 million for each of its 12 new 777-300ER, Boeing won on the price of the package. The list price for the aircraft is between US$226.0 -- 253.0 million.

QF have purchased 45 firm 787s, signed for 20 options and 50 extra purchase rights. They have not paid for 115 aircraft, they are not getting 115 aircraft at this stage either.

First QF deliveries in 2008.

QF have agreed to pay less than the list price for a 737-800 for each of its 787's, the list price of the 737-800 is between US$63.5 -- 72.0 million. The list price for the 787-8 is between US$125.0 -- 135.0 million.

Does anyone notice a trend ?...discounting by over 60% ?

Industry joke at the moment, the more plastic an aeroplane, the more QF will buy it.

What about AO???
 

Look at the announcement on the QF Website - "They will cater for international capacity growth and new routes, as well as replacing the Qantas Group's fleet of wide-body Boeing 767-300s".

Only Mention of QF and JQ, no mention of AO.

A glaring omission ... AO all over to JQ international by early 2007?

You know Wiz, as soon as I'd finished typing that, I thought "I bet someone knows that it was planned with a 3rd seat!":ok: I guess taking the seat out meant we could call it a 762NG!!!:} :ouch:

Taildragger QF also got Boeing to put more UD windows on the 742...err...too!:) Also, re the donks, the new 747-8 will be using the same ones as the 787....hmmmm.;)

Nope, the 748 has a smaller fan diameter, and its not bleedless like the GEnx for the 787.

About as close as the RB211 on the 747 is to the RB211 on the A340.

SWH

RB211s on A340?? Aren't they Trents (rather than 211s) on A330, A345 & 346?

Or do you mean RB211s on 767 and 757?

Blastoid,

last I saw AO was part of the Qantas GROUP.

Read your own post.

The 340-500 & 340-600 have RB211 Trent 500 powerplants, a Trent is a RB211. The RB211 Trent 700 is on the 330. People for short call them Trent 500/700 etc.

Well, it seems like its "Point out Busters mistakes day" today!:ok:

I was probably not specific enough, but I'll take your word for it swh. I was going on the 748F blurb & some mention of it using the GEnx-2B67 65,000lbs thrust. I note the GEnx is rated between 53,000 & 72,000lbs.:)

Actual order is 45 X 787's with options on 70 more and that equals US$18 billion why can't you get your figures right.

Vortsa

Get your figures right ???

You say 118 units but QF say 115 units

In the rush to be the first out with the news some one got it wrong, check with the Manufacturer for the right answer.

Here it is

SEATTLE, Dec. 13, 2005 -- The Boeing Company [NYSE: BA] and Qantas announced today that the airline has selected the Boeing 787 Dreamliner and plans to buy up to 115 787s for renewal and expansion of its long-haul fleet.

Boeing and Qantas are finalizing an agreement that will include orders for 45 Dreamliners, with 20 options plus purchase rights for an additional 50 airplanes. The announcement by Qantas is the largest to date for the Dreamliner in terms of the total package.

The first four 787-8s will be delivered to Qantas\' Jetstar subsidiary in 2008, with plans for a total of 28 to be in operation with Qantas and Jetstar by December 2011. Qantas\' and Jetstar\'s airplanes will be split between the 787-8 (up to 300 seats in Jetstar\'s low-cost configuration) and 787-9 (up to 350 seats).

\"Today, we continue the program that is setting the airline\'s course of the future,\" said Geoff Dixon, CEO of Qantas Airways. \"With our unique geographic challenges, we need all the advantages we can take to compete effectively against some of the industry\'s toughest. The 787 family will help us provide increased or new services by Qantas and Jetstar to 15 destinations and to destinations which we cannot currently profitably serve.\"

Qantas recently approved the establishment of a new long-haul, value-based airline under the Jetstar brand to commence international operations no later than January 2007. Jetstar\'s initial international route structure would require 10 aircraft on point-to-point routes between Australia and Asian and Pacific cities, complementing Qantas\' mainline international operations.

Qantas has yet to announce an engine choice between the Rolls-Royce Trent 1000 and GE Aircraft Engines GEnx power plants.

\"Our relationship with Qantas dates to the very start of the jet age, and we\'re thrilled to see that relationship continue with the 787,\" said Alan Mulally, president and CEO, Boeing Commercial Airplanes. \"The 787 is a game-changer for airline profitability and for passenger comfort. Qantas\' evaluation was particularly rigorous, and we welcome this endorsement and opportunity to be part of Qantas\'s future.\"

Boeing developed the 787 for the mid-sized jetliner market, estimated at 3,500 aircraft over the next 20 years. The 787 will be more than 50 percent advanced carbon composites which allow higher cabin humidity, a lower cabin altitude and the largest windows in the industry.

Two high-efficiency engines combined with a high-tech construction mean the 787 will produce seat-mile costs normally associated with much larger aircraft.

In addition to bringing big-jet ranges to mid-size airplanes, the 787 will provide airlines with unmatched fuel efficiency, resulting in exceptional environmental performance. The airplane will use 20 percent less fuel for comparable missions than any similarly-sized airplane. It will also travel at speeds similar to today\'s fastest wide bodies, Mach 0.85. Also, airlines will enjoy more cargo revenue capacity.

Boeing now has 354 orders and commitments from 26 customers for the 787.

Vortsa

Now that you have corrected your 48 units to 45 units , your figures are now correct.

ftrplt,

Point taken ... but you know what I was getting at.

787s for Jet*, no mention of 787s for AO, but they are getting rid of 767s.

Maybe the will get them, I think by the time 787s are due for delivery AO will have been absorbed into J* International.

My 2c.

Maybe I'm just cynical....

John Howard forces through the new IR laws which will benefit QF immeasurably.

QF rewards Johnnie by allowing him to ring his Sherrif mate and give him the good news of a huge order for his ailing subsidised arms industry.

The icing on this one might be some new heavy life aircraft for those 20 year old second hand tanks that we've been conned into buying. Now, where are we going to fly them to?

At least Haliburton is not involved for a change.

Sunfish

A touch of the 'Sir Eric Pearce' here but a CF6-80A with FADEC!

Not the last time I looked. :confused: :ok:

Back to the 787, I wonder what a composite fuselage looks like after a decent lightning strike, it scorches and pits aluminium but blows holes and generally knackers composites.

Not a good look on a pressurised hull!!!:suspect:

A Composite structure does not mean that the structure is biult without an alloy base. New fuselage construction involves layering alluminiums between layers of a fibre sandwich. This allows a thinner aluminium structure, hence less weight but a stronger bonded structurer.

The actual procedure for inspecting for lightening strikes is not available yet.

Given the amount of testing that goes into any new aircraft, pioneered by Boeing, you can be assured that this question has been addressed.

Anyone
 

Someone has to be the first customer/guinea pig.

Go for an existing design and we'll all be criticising them for "going with an outdated and underdeveloped design", I suppose...


520.

The QF/JQ split
 

An extract from the media release yesterday reference QF/AO and the dreamliners:

Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon said the re-equipment contract would provide the maximum flexibility for Qantas, allowing it to allocate new planes between Qantas and the international and domestic operations of Jetstar.

"They (Jetstar) get the first 10 and there's then quite a few to go to Qantas, but our view on that is that we will allocate the aircraft between Qantas and Jetstar where we can get the most viable returns," Mr Dixon said. "What we're trying to make sure is that both Jetstar and Qantas Airlines have a viable future. This is an incredibly tough industry."


I dont believe the numbers given are set in stone.

ie high cost of fuel,
emirates paying no tax etc, etc and suddenly it is more viable (and easily justified) to put more of them into JQ Intl.

............. or am I just suspicious

Cheers Oz2