ALAEA EBA VII agreement
 

Can you believe this ALAEA fed exec?? or more specifically the EBA negotiating committee???

They did a great job.......they have managed to screw us all!!
Transmission of business still there, overtime banking still there, minor increase in quotas which is not an EBA item anyway. But they got the reduction in allowances to 80% removed....WOW. That will help out about 2% of the membership!

Don't forget the increase to confined space payment... up 2 cents, thats right 2 cents per hour! Don't spend it all at once!

When are these useless clowns going to wake up to themselves?
We were in the driving seat applying a small amount of pressure for a favourable outcome, only to have them throw in the towell at the first round.

We need to pass the strong message to the exec that this EBA is unacceptable.

We need a change of the gaurd at Bexley.

and there is more great news. LAMEless tarmac is still on agenda, and customer payments only while working on that aircraft.

And for all this we get 3% each year. About 1.5% less that inflation

I personally would like to thank all the tossers involved for screwing up what was to be a long and prosperous career.

:mad: :mad:

oh well it really looks like this is the alaea execs last eba,well done :mad: and we had the company against the ropes.

BLOWN IT BIG TIME
 

With everybody united( except Brisbane International) we started to have solidarity and strength in the membership. I for one am proud of the people I have worked with who have galantly held out with the overtime bans for 5 months.

Thankyou to u all.

To the negotiating committee and Brisbane international LAMES :mad: I and hope karma has her way. The question has to be why we didn't have a blanket ban on overtime!!!

WHY WHY WHY.

Hope you have a lovely trip to Malaysia (Yeah we all know you go relieving there soon )
Hey why not do more overtime while you are at it. What a :mad

FEAR AND UNCERTAINTY has reared its ugly head again

I posted yesterday on Pprune to have crystal reply that obviously I had a hatred towards the current exec, normally I would disagree but surely at this stage I have a :mad: Valid point

Up **** Creek in a barbwire canoe with a newspaper paddle, five knot current and it's crocodile infested.

fed pres?
 

are you telling us that fed pres is relieving in Malaysia?

the plot thickens....

:mad:

or will be soon?

FED PRES RELIEF WORK SARAWAK
 

YEH baby not only relief work in Malaysia for a mont but continual overtime on Air Newzealand A320's while our domestic bros. have been struggling under weight of a full overtime ban.
Can't you see why they have allowed overtime on customer aircraft???????

SHAME SHAME SHAME

BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR
 

BLAH BLAH BLAH.

WAKE UP TO YOUR SELVLES PEOPLE.

WHO WILL BE YOUR MESSIAH?

THE MEXICANS?

I THINK NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:ok:

Who the hell wants a Messiah?

I just want a descent EBA offer.

When the guys are willing to stand up and be counted, its our union leadership that lets us down.

Anybody else in the role of union executive cant do any worse than these guys have.

Prepare yourselves for mass member resignations if you keep up these antics.

No money for expensive dinners and fancy wine....heaven forbid.

Maintain the Rage

there is plenty of people in sydney willing to work with the mexicans to get a better out come then has been achieved by these useless people.

If the proposed agreement contains the phrase "transmission of business" they can stick it you know where.:mad:

There is only one reason they want that clause in and that's to sell us off. I have no intention of letting 20 years worth of entitlements be guaranteed by some dodgy start up company with no assets.

If the 'transmission of business clause' has no significant impact on workers entitlements, as the union will no doubt tell us, then why won't the company drop it?

I would rather take no pay rise and let the whole place turn into s#$tfight until they are forced to offer redundancies and send the work overseas.

How good would Dixon and "the Spirit of Australia " look then!!

When you do "outsource" your maintenance, or any other function, like IT, there is one little problem that always arises - the need for quality control and administration of the outsourced contract.

Now this requires that you keep a few, just a very little few, people who have a LAME background, and perhaps licences, to keep tabs on who is doing what to who and how much Qantas is going to be paying. Now where might you find such wonderful, sensible, people, loaded with fairness and integrity??????

After reading all the allegations on this and other forums, I've always wondered what the aforesaid members of the allegedley non performing executive were going to do when there time is up because it sounds like, from their alleged behaviour, that they will not be welcome back into your community with open arms.

So my guess (and its just a guess) is that this is the last EBA you, and your executive, will ever make with QF. Both your executive and QF know it.

You guys will be shuffled off and sold to the highest bidder, however your little mates in the executive will stay behind at QF as contract administrators of the maintenance contract.

Thats why they aren't fighting. They are protecting their reputation for integrity, sensibility and fairness - and their right to wear a tie to work. One wonders if they are being "looked after".

As for the allegation that your Pres has been getting overtime while you were not, plus a "holiday" in Malaysia, I am amazed at how easy it is to corrupt people, and how cheap the price is, but thats Sydney for you.

Sorry for the **** stirring, but something has been done to "look after" certain people otherwise they would have been fighting the transmission of business clause. I've watched it being played before in an IT outsourcing project, thankfully from a safe distance.

Having said all that, you just might find that being "outsourced" may be the best thing that has ever happened to you, and you will all be laughing all the way to the bank in a few years time.

I've seen it happen once. Management thought they had done a fast one by flogging off the equivalent of a clapped out Commodore. However after two years diligent work and a bit of polish they were embarrased to realise that they had sold off a Rolls Royce instead!

Surely the EBA has to be voted on by the membership?

If you're not happy - which seems to be the impression I'm getting - if you and a majority of your colleagues vote NO, negotiations have to start again.

Make sure your Executive knows how you feel and what you want from YOUR EBA. It's up to you all, not just the negotiating committee to get what you want.

I know what I'd be doing if my EBA came back with 3% plus offsets.

Unfortunately, there will only be one vote at these meetings, and that will be whether to accept or reject offer. The ASN are going to protect their position and continue to control the process by not allowing any votes or motions from the floor.

"DICKtakers" string em up.

In an ideal situation that would be the case but our Executive lives in fantasy land. They have on many occasions ignored the direction given to it by our members. For example last EBA was overwhellmingly rejected. We then voted in favour of Industrial action with 79% in favour. Do you think they took it? No no no. They voted the members again at port meetings. Same result. They waited months and did nothing and came back again telling us all that we'd lose 10 months backpay. It was about this time the members realised that their own Executive was on a different agenda and would never support us. We now wait for day they all get ousted. Then we may get a say.

Vote no. Then vote no again. We don't need a new agreement. The new Exec can work on it in 12 months time.

Fordran. with respect. this is the "Last" EBA. The executive won't be there to be voted out next time around because you will all be working for something other than QF.

To put it another way, the executive doesn't care who you vote for next time around, There isn't going to be a "next time" as far as they are concerned. They already have their exit strategy (into QF management?) ready for them.

As for QF, they don't care if you reject the offer because once the Liberal party has control of the Senate, the industrial laws will be changed in their favor.

Can we outsource our executive functions to the lowest bidder?
We could include performance bonuses, paid for by the members instead of performance bonuses paid under the table by the company.

Now, now don't make inference that our fine team of leaders are selling us out in favour of bags of money under the table. They are just doing it for the love of the company.

Reps meeting
 

Check out what our elected representitives have to say about the EBA offer.
http://glsol.com/airboard/viewtopic.php?t=158&start=15


It looks like executive seem to think our backpay is a bonus for being good boys and taking the offer.
Vote NO and then bring back the bans. Get all the ports, departments and lines on board. These officials are so out of touch with the workers it is now beyond criminal.
I can not believe we voted these blokes in !
Brand me as the vocal minority and a trouble maker but most LAMES I know have been Pi$$ed off for 3 EBA's and have had enough. The Executive prey on fear and play Line and Heavy off on each other.
We are to blame for allowing them to go in a direction that the union body does not want, the rot needs to be cut out. Stop their secretive little deals and meetings. Stop the withholding of information. Take the motions from the workers and act on them!!

It seems to me that this EBA7 in principle agreement may not be as popular as the exec first thought.

Well guys and gals if you are not happy with it let the exec know how you feel, in writing.

No use bashing your gums on here, as it just falls on death ears. Email them and let them know how you feel about this agreement and what course of action you want them to take.

Do it quickly because next Wednesday 18th May the exec will meet to decide your fate.:ok: :mad:

Then put the bans back on T1.

The goat rooter can never be pleased but I thought youse on our side CM. The offer is a good one when you consider all the turmoil in the industry right now. I has spoken to many many members and were all pleased to see the end of this thing. Most of us dont even work in hm so who cares what hapens there the work will go overseas if they dont like it. As for 3% I think is fair and all this crap about inflation being higher well its not. They reckon its 2.8% so 3% is a genorous offer and must be accepted. If you fools dont the backpay will disapear and so will the grade adjustments so just get over yourselves and think about the future. Send all your posotive feedback to trustee1 at the ALAEA and it will get looked after.

Yeah mate, send your emails and criticism to the executive so that they can tell Qantas Management.

There is zero trust of the Executive.

Furthermore Mr. Qantas, the net take home pay after adjustment for taxation is less than three percent because of the effect of taxation.

How dare you cast these slandorous disperions on our executive. They dont give them an inch when they negotiate and the last thing theyed do is give them names so retract that garbage or ill report you to the moderater. As for take home pay and tax you just got a nice big tax cut add on top 3% and most lames will be over $100 bucks a week better in the sky rocket so stop the whinging.

Mr Qantas, what do you think will come your way under K Clark when he has heavy and base maint under his control.
Why are you in a union when you only care about yourself, go and sign an AWA.
I should think that steam clean should be out sourced soon anyway.

It's back with some editing of unecessary though maybe heartfelt observations.:p

We have no position on the matter under discussion that is for you, our experience here tells us that a cause is not advanced by intemperant language. It simply gives the other side the opportunity to diminish you in the eyes of others.:ok:

Woomera, I marvel at your patience, wisdom and understanding. You are a leading light to all other Moderators and I acknowledge your sensitivity in allowing this thread to continue.

What has been expressed here and in other recent threads is not merely a case for greater wages but a call to arms to slow the degredation of airline safety. I think you understand this and have allowed the debate to continue but have endevoured to tone down the emotion.

There is real concern among engineers and airline staff, that the direction that the market is pushing airlines to take to earn greater profits is a scary one. It will ultimately lead to sad times for families across the globe in years to come.

There is a good reason here for airlines to stay under Government control. It is now a service industry, a means of transporting large volumes of people that modern society has a need to commute. No longer a fat cow for entrepeneurs to play with, railways were run by Governments for many years to deliver just such a service. Aircraft are the new generation of trains in the sky and the public need a reliable safe mode of transport without the burden of cost whittling away at its infrastructure.

Some of the most successful Airlines are still managed by Governments and make profits. I say take back the airlines from the rich and give it into the hands of Governments so that we all can be share holders in our future and safety.

Sunfish wrote:
I think what Socks is saying is that we must be vigilant, and when decisions are made by some to have a greater influence on many it may only profit a few.

Government decisions are made to profit many, and not always with the view to making money. Many Government railways run at a loss but continue to service the public, for the greater good.

I think the Engineers would probably forego a lousy 3% pay increase if they could see a change in philosophy by management to keep the status quo.

Great post Socks, you hit the nail right on the head on all fronts

I look forward to more of your input

Cheers

As I have seen the over the years Q is using our geographical location to it's advantage in it's demeaning propaganda campaign by distorting reality,mislaying the facts and promoting the easily manipulated 'YES' men as their perversive arms of power who perform this perversion and subvertion through misinformation and intimidation.The aviation world isn't in turmoil,it isn't losing enormous amounts of money,quite the contrary,profits are up across the board and airlines with a management with any nous and ability are embracing it by trimming areas that have grown gluttenous,like middle management and over pampered flight attendants to name a few, and now looking upon maintenance as a potential major earner for an established airline with the technical expertise,infrastructure and manufacturer's support to offer a very viable and profitable third party aircraft MRO.Overseas freighter airlines are sprouting everywhere with a huge demand for 747's due to their reliability cost and load carrying ability .They are being dragged out of the desert and these fledgling airlines are looking for MRO's with 74 experience to do the return to service checks.This is where Q just can't cut it,it tried to jump on the train with the opening of AVV but has inevitably failed through lack of proper management and foresight,you can't employ sh!t do do quality just as you can't employ quality to do sh!t.Until Q recognises it's failings and embraces the future,acts like private company not a public service and starts to repect the Australian LAME/AME for the quality we deserve and pay to hold onto this expertise then the morale will continue to drop (if it can drop any lower) and quality LAME's and AME's will continually walk out the door and into jobs outside and OS with higher remuneration and respect, and once recognised by these outside organisations as talented, well trained technical expertise they will not be let go which will eventually leave Q on the verge of the very serious collapse in experience and quality.Quick fixes don't work as AVV is a prime example of and surely Q have to realise this as it watches their investments walk out the door,are they that short sighted that they can't remember back to the early millennium pre AN collapse when they were in crisis through lack of manpower,it will happen again and thinking Asia's MRO's will make all their problems go away is farcical.People only fly Q for their perceived safety not service so let's hope Q's management realise this before it's too late,Q should be appeasing the customers through service and quality not the shareholders through theatrically presented ambiguity

Give that person a standing ovation:D

:yuk:
Why are the company and/or the executive trying to divide us between Heavy & Line? Just remember if this EBA gets pasted and screws H/M, Line will be next and there WILL be NO support from H/m for any issues effecting Line in the future.


Stand united and we can win over these self centred drop kicks.

:confused:

Talking to a guy from SIT the other night and he was worried about the wording of the approval clause. Said if his susspisions were correct he stood to loose a fair bit........... This EBA effects all of us, if we let the company drive wedges in then they have won not only the battle but the war also.

SOLIDARITY

"We're all in the one boat so we better start rowing"

You Guys hit the mark we gotta stick together keep each other informed of our concerns Communication is the key.

That is why the company let's the exec do it's bidding and deliver the document to the members in person
IT'S THE ONLY TIME THEY LEAVE THE OFFICE
then sad sack can preach his sad tale of woe and troubled times.

Sold down the river again.........
I'm drowning.............
I'm drowning...........

Hey ! there's someone pushing me under ?

CASEY JONES
Instead of being 'just another number' I could order a Personal Title and help support PPRuNe
posted 20th May 2005 04:29
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

O/T banking is not a big issue for most but it is a great win for QF - after all no other unions have weakened to this demand at either H/M Melb or Syd, 3% gives QF the right to demand nothing.
I think QF management would be wrapped though to see how willing ALAEA exec are to participate once again in their favorite ploy of sacrificing the minority while encouraging I'm right jack attitude in the majority.
Another reason I'd be happy if I was Cox Vincent or Clark is that if I was setting up to outsource heavy & line maint to a third party labour hire company( very doable ) then I couldn’t ask for a better bunch of blokes to thrash out the issues with than the ALAEA EBA neg committee
I'm sure they hope that this EBA is finished quickly so these issues along with LAME-less tarmac can be sorted before the ALAEA boys get the boot. How well will the QF look after them when they have no one to sell out ?
There are long term ramifications for all LAMEs in this EBA ie some line guys forced to the hangers with the heavy guys & only o/t bankers offered the extra hours / don't worry though this won't happen to our current EBA neg group.
We might not end up with much of a pay deal but we must stand together & earn some respect as a group regardless of how keen our office bearers are to ingratiate themselves to management.
We should all remember the one golden QF rule no matter what your grade level or dept a good employee /LAME is a cheap one.

The agreement is basically giving you a CPI increase for no trade offs. Not a fantastic win but the minimum acceptable outcome in my view. It keeps our wage in line with inflation and thats all.

I know people who have worked with OT banking in Avalon and they say it is good. It gives people the opportunity to get extra money as well as extra time off from their horrible roster. The company has to give 48 hrs notice so they can't just spring it on you. That said, the whole thing is voluntary anway so no one can be "shafted".

For all those who are unhappy with agreement- what is it you want?

4,5,6,7% ??? Extra conditions???

Even if we were to reject this package and were succesful in getting a better deal (which is highly debatable- last time we rejected an EBA we ended up accepting a lesser deal) It is going to cost dearly in the short term.

I can't be bothered going through 3 months of ot bans,higher duties bans, stop work meetings and possibly strikes for at best a marginally better deal and at worst, a lesser deal.

So why have an EBA, if we never get anything for trading off efficiencies, and when there is nothing left to trade????

We give them money back to keep our jobs?????

Is our commitee going to say again that this is the best we could get BUT we will have a better chance next time, the timing was wrong this time, the company is going through a difficult time and can't afford anything better,hang in there guys there is light at the end of the tunnel, we have your best interest at heart????

I have heard it all before.......it won't work this time ! ! !

numbskull
Have you actually read the offer? No trade offs my *&$@!!
What about the licence payments for aircraft that will soon not be QF tpyes ie Jet Connect 737-3/400's.Have a good read and think about how long before company/exec attack current tpyes.

If YOU want o/t banking then it should apply to ALL LAME's not just H/M and should not be so subject to QF control.

What about all the extras QF have thrown at us? Jetsmart, Lean Stimga, Safty observation's etc, Project 221 in Melb is supposed to deliver $15 Million in savings. We put the hard yards in and should be renumerated accordingly. I'm sick of funding large bouns's for managerment.

Remember our wage freeze. I,d be happy for a 4.5%p.a. increase and NO changes to current conditions as the bere minimum acceptable outcome.

What,s going to happen when times do get tough? What are YOU willing to give up for the next EBA ?

Heavy Maint is targeted this time and it dosen't take a rocket scientist to work out that Line is next in the sights!!:mad: :mad:

Don't be so short sighted! Think about not only your hip pocket but future LAME's.Remeber eventually the numbers of LAME's not covered by these Grandfather clause's will out number those who are and their not going to give a tinkers toss about YOUR conditions if it dosen't apply to them.

Thought for the week

att NUMBSKULL
 

hey pal, you are a ignorant selfish fool. Can't be bothered? Great attitude for securing and preserving a worthy future in this industry. It is the short sightedness of people such as you that will make this industry not worth working in.

I agree that we will not get much of a better deal, particularly with the incompetent negotiating committee that we are forced to endure (only for approx 12 more long months), but we need to send a clear message to management that we stand as one, and any changes made to our working conditions whether in Line, Heavy, Base or other will need to be negotiated for an outcome that is suitable for all involved.

My point is clear, if LAME's around country want a long and prosperous future, then stick together. Any reduction in conditions regardless how minor or how few they affect, are a reduction in all of our conditions...and for a measly 3%, NO WAY.

We work for Qantas, a company with a great safety record. Why follow in the footsteps of Low Cost Carriers and reduce the wages and conditions of those that ensure this safety record stays in tact?

Numskull says "I know people who have worked with OT banking in Avalon and they say it is good. It gives people the opportunity to get extra money as well as extra time off from their horrible roster. The company has to give 48 hrs notice so they can't just spring it on you. That said, the whole thing is voluntary anway so no one can be "shafted".

It has to be the most beneficial OT bank that the company could want. Have a look at the BNE Ame O/T bank..it's much more employee friendly.
But because the only option put forward is the one on the table we could get stuck with the cr@p.
Heavy Maintenance employees don't even get a chance to have a say in their own conditions.
It will be decided by Line and Base employees on the direction of the Federal Executive.
That is why I'm so p!ssed off with the whole thing for a start.