QF loses Tasman Flights to Jetconnect
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QF loses Tasman Flights to Jetconnect
Times are a changing, first AA now Jetconnect... Wonder what the QF pilots union thinks of this? The Squeeze has started!
From todays Press.
Qantas recruiting pilots for Jet Connect NZ subsidiary
18 June 2003
Qantas Airways is recruiting pilots for its lower cost New Zealand subsidiary Jet Connect to fly the Tasman from September.
Qantas spokesman Michael Sharp said there would be no change to the schedules or number of flights, currently 27 return flights a week, and all planes would have the Qantas livery.
Jet Connect flights will leave Wellington and Christchurch for Sydney, Melbourne, and Brisbane. Qantas will still fly out of Auckland under its own steam.
Qantas has begun recruiting 14 additional pilots and 25 flight attendants to operate the new flights as of September. Staff would be employed by Jet Connect, not Qantas.
Mr Sharp would not comment on whether the situation would change if the deal with Air New Zealand went ahead.
He said Jet Connect had a cheaper operating model than Qantas' main operation, and different union agreements.
The cost of labour and other costs would be cheaper in New Zealand dollars.
"It is true that Jet Connect has a lower cost base than the Qantas main line operation, but also for these services that will be operated by Jet Connect, the aircraft overnights in New Zealand," Mr Sharp said.
"It obviously makes sense from a use of aircraft point of view to have those services operated by Jet Connect, based in New Zealand."
Qantas had not released any figures on projected cost savings.
The airline established its Jet Connect subsidiary in 2001 for an air operating certificate to fly in and out of New Zealand.
In an effort to cut $A1 billion ($NZ1.2 billion) of costs, Qantas has flagged plans for a radical overhaul of its labour structures.
Over the past four months, the airline has announced thousands of jobs would be abolished through natural attrition, redundancies and forced leave.
From todays Press.
Qantas recruiting pilots for Jet Connect NZ subsidiary
18 June 2003
Qantas Airways is recruiting pilots for its lower cost New Zealand subsidiary Jet Connect to fly the Tasman from September.
Qantas spokesman Michael Sharp said there would be no change to the schedules or number of flights, currently 27 return flights a week, and all planes would have the Qantas livery.
Jet Connect flights will leave Wellington and Christchurch for Sydney, Melbourne, and Brisbane. Qantas will still fly out of Auckland under its own steam.
Qantas has begun recruiting 14 additional pilots and 25 flight attendants to operate the new flights as of September. Staff would be employed by Jet Connect, not Qantas.
Mr Sharp would not comment on whether the situation would change if the deal with Air New Zealand went ahead.
He said Jet Connect had a cheaper operating model than Qantas' main operation, and different union agreements.
The cost of labour and other costs would be cheaper in New Zealand dollars.
"It is true that Jet Connect has a lower cost base than the Qantas main line operation, but also for these services that will be operated by Jet Connect, the aircraft overnights in New Zealand," Mr Sharp said.
"It obviously makes sense from a use of aircraft point of view to have those services operated by Jet Connect, based in New Zealand."
Qantas had not released any figures on projected cost savings.
The airline established its Jet Connect subsidiary in 2001 for an air operating certificate to fly in and out of New Zealand.
In an effort to cut $A1 billion ($NZ1.2 billion) of costs, Qantas has flagged plans for a radical overhaul of its labour structures.
Over the past four months, the airline has announced thousands of jobs would be abolished through natural attrition, redundancies and forced leave.
I would suggest the 744 oops, the QF pilots union doesn't really care. They have know about this happening for probably well over a year and endorse the companies position as it doesn't really effect the core operation.
Next will be 767's to Jetconnect, probably before the end of the year. What will AIPA do about this, particularly at a time when we are looking at a lot of lost flying, the answer - NOTHING!
When 744's are sent to Jetconnect perhaps they will notice.
Now I can see why some companies have had second unions set up by their pilots.
Scream, Rant, Rage, F'ing F'ing F'ing, to no avail.
Next will be 767's to Jetconnect, probably before the end of the year. What will AIPA do about this, particularly at a time when we are looking at a lot of lost flying, the answer - NOTHING!
When 744's are sent to Jetconnect perhaps they will notice.
Now I can see why some companies have had second unions set up by their pilots.
Scream, Rant, Rage, F'ing F'ing F'ing, to no avail.
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Dixon is pretty cunning he's slowly chipping away at the unions,staff conditions,etc
Quite clever how he is setting up competition for flying/routes within QF between AA & Jetconnect & QF, very soon he'll be asking the QF pilots to take condition cuts if they don't want more flying to disappear to AA/JC.
Quite clever how he is setting up competition for flying/routes within QF between AA & Jetconnect & QF, very soon he'll be asking the QF pilots to take condition cuts if they don't want more flying to disappear to AA/JC.
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I have heard that the QF union was approached by one of the JC pilots over a year ago to ascertain if they were interested in a New Zealand membership.
The response was a pretty cool "No thanks".
Might come back to bite them yet!!!
Fornique8
The response was a pretty cool "No thanks".
Might come back to bite them yet!!!
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I personally called Chris (union leader - now CP) during the changeover from AWAS to AWOPS then Jetconnect to advise him of the dramatic reduction in terms and conditions that was being forced through by the new management (total cuts in the order of 40% - in net worth). I made him aware of my personal concern that this may well be the "thin edge of the wedge" and that he and the union should be very concerned that this Qantas flying (albeit by contractors) was being "sold" for such poor terms and conditions. To be totally honest I was looking for some sort of assistance for the "troops" on the issue who had no union protection.
His response to me (which was not in confidence - and I feel can be repeated here) was that the union didn't really care and that they did not regard the flying as "theirs". I suggested that this may well be short sighted. IMHO it indeed was.
His response to me (which was not in confidence - and I feel can be repeated here) was that the union didn't really care and that they did not regard the flying as "theirs". I suggested that this may well be short sighted. IMHO it indeed was.
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A.I.P.A
Anyone Interested in Promotion to Administration!
A joke of a union.
Lets add National Jet 10 years ago and Impulse and soon Air Sheep.
Keg, I admire your loyalty to the AIPA but aren't you a little angry. Can forget the 767 command you used to talk of until just recently. The AIPA remains a little club for the good old boys, and now even the good older boys are getting your slot on the 6. ouch, that's gotta hurt.
A union has to fight the fight no matter what. The message sent to Dixon is that he can basically do whatever he wants to the pilots and there will be no repercussion. This is a clear transmission of business yet silence from the AIPA. I can see the whole QF pilot gig imploding.
Anyone Interested in Promotion to Administration!
A joke of a union.
Lets add National Jet 10 years ago and Impulse and soon Air Sheep.
Keg, I admire your loyalty to the AIPA but aren't you a little angry. Can forget the 767 command you used to talk of until just recently. The AIPA remains a little club for the good old boys, and now even the good older boys are getting your slot on the 6. ouch, that's gotta hurt.
A union has to fight the fight no matter what. The message sent to Dixon is that he can basically do whatever he wants to the pilots and there will be no repercussion. This is a clear transmission of business yet silence from the AIPA. I can see the whole QF pilot gig imploding.
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Its all a bit of a worry I say. Its pathetic really, narrowminded freckly little snotty nosed pukes with the personality of an elephants sphincter after a good fart, these accountant pricks.
Oughta string them up by their nuts I say. Economic rationalism gone bonkers.
This industry is beginning to smell!
Oughta string them up by their nuts I say. Economic rationalism gone bonkers.
This industry is beginning to smell!
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"Oh Dear" please don't tell me the pilots from QF International are going to have to realise that they are vulnerable to what has been happening in the rest of the world ......
Pay & other conditions have been lessened at many major and minor airlines throughout the world to maintain their existance .... and then there is those that didn't survive!!
The QF guys and Gals have been on very very good conditions for a very long time and well .... they may have to give a little now .... acceptance for the commencement of Nat Jet, Air Link, Impulse, AA and now Jet Connect (The TJ caberet) as subsidiaries in the QF camp are because their unions allowed them to be a part of their ops.
Time to smell the roses & time for me to duck below the firing line
Pay & other conditions have been lessened at many major and minor airlines throughout the world to maintain their existance .... and then there is those that didn't survive!!
The QF guys and Gals have been on very very good conditions for a very long time and well .... they may have to give a little now .... acceptance for the commencement of Nat Jet, Air Link, Impulse, AA and now Jet Connect (The TJ caberet) as subsidiaries in the QF camp are because their unions allowed them to be a part of their ops.
Time to smell the roses & time for me to duck below the firing line
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The bit that intrigued me was the comment that Jetconnect has a different union agreement! 
What union agreement??
Fast turning into the thick end of the wedge.
What union agreement?? Fast turning into the thick end of the wedge.
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Funny thing...The QF mainline guys really used to be the low cost guys by world standards, now they are under siege.
It's obvious that management are trying to turn pilots into run of the mill bus drivers and pay them accordingly.
To the low cost guys....are you confident that the management will be satisfied with your pay and conditions?
The jetconnect guys are on probably the worst pay etc of ANY 737 pilots on the planet.
Management will not be happy until we are all on this wicket.
IT IS NOT JUST THE QF MAINLINE GUYS UNDERSIEGE, ITS OUR WHOLE PROFESSION.
Doubt me? Lets have this discussion in 10 yrs and see how things are progressing.
It's obvious that management are trying to turn pilots into run of the mill bus drivers and pay them accordingly.
To the low cost guys....are you confident that the management will be satisfied with your pay and conditions?
The jetconnect guys are on probably the worst pay etc of ANY 737 pilots on the planet.
Management will not be happy until we are all on this wicket.
IT IS NOT JUST THE QF MAINLINE GUYS UNDERSIEGE, ITS OUR WHOLE PROFESSION.
Doubt me? Lets have this discussion in 10 yrs and see how things are progressing.
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Not all flights are being lost to Jetconnect. If you look at Qantas' draft northern winter schedules on the IATA page you'll see that most of the SYD-AKL, SYD-CHC and MEL-AKL will be operated by the A330-200!
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Judging by the number of incidents that the domestics boys are having, QF already has a B (minus) scale operation. ie runway excursions, airframe vibration (oops the airbrake was out...) slats stuck out (oops, the flap lever was not put to zero correctly..) etcetera, etcetera, etcetera......
All management wants to do is to match the pay scales to the quality of the product being delivered by the flight ops department, or be able to hold pilots accountable for their decisions.
All management wants to do is to match the pay scales to the quality of the product being delivered by the flight ops department, or be able to hold pilots accountable for their decisions.
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It seems that airline bean counters are not the only ignorant short sighted gits around here.
Reading Mulgas stupid post its plain to see that this forum is plagued with a number of parasites that seem to exist as reminders of why most airlines use personality screening as part of the interview process.
Your post is horse****. Whats the matter mate suffering from a little case of sour grapes are we?
Reading Mulgas stupid post its plain to see that this forum is plagued with a number of parasites that seem to exist as reminders of why most airlines use personality screening as part of the interview process.
Your post is horse****. Whats the matter mate suffering from a little case of sour grapes are we?
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Hmmm, looks like this could be the long awaited line in the
sand Mr Dixon has been promising, would not be suprised
to see the Jetconnect aircraft utilised also doing a few Aussie
sectors before returning to NZ, effectivly undercutting DJ, so
much for DJ reducing pay and conditions that QF people have
been raving on in these forum's for the past couple of years.
sand Mr Dixon has been promising, would not be suprised
to see the Jetconnect aircraft utilised also doing a few Aussie
sectors before returning to NZ, effectivly undercutting DJ, so
much for DJ reducing pay and conditions that QF people have
been raving on in these forum's for the past couple of years.
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Quote:
Walter Mitty: " A.I.P.A .... Anyone Interested in Promotion to Administration!"
Clive: "I personally called Chris [union leader (of AIPA at the time)- now CP(of QF)]"
Nose Wheel: "acceptance for the commencement of Nat Jet, Air Link, Impulse, AA and now Jet Connect (The TJ caberet) as subsidiaries in the QF camp are because their unions allowed them to be a part of their ops."
I read this as the former 'team coach' of the AIPA UNION was worth poaching, considering all the deals done where infavour QF's bottom line. He is now the CP and know's all the moves from the previous 'games' played, leaving us in the s**t for future rounds.
Barbers Pole "Quite clever how he (Dixon)is setting up competition for flying/routes within QF between AA & Jetconnect & QF, very soon he'll be asking the QF pilots to take condition cuts if they don't want more flying to disappear to AA/JC"
Funny how we were told NO routes would compete between QF
and AA etc. WE should have read the fine print.... if we take the route from QF (due loads, profit), thay can use AA etc. as they are not competing with you.
Sonny Hammond "IT IS NOT JUST THE QF MAINLINE GUYS UNDERSIEGE, ITS OUR WHOLE PROFESSION."
As Sonny says, the whole industry is getting a flogging. If QF, as the largest pilot group in OZ starts to under-cut it own staff, the flow down will be quick to come to the allready" low cost" employes. The conditions that people before us cemented will be chipped away forever in agreements that were over-looked by shortsighted union members "Interested in Promotion to Administration!"
I don't know an answer, just hope in 20 years we are not on 'bus driver' wages and the local bus driver is not "driving/flying" his craft to SIN for twice as much pay!
FFRATS
Walter Mitty: " A.I.P.A .... Anyone Interested in Promotion to Administration!"
Clive: "I personally called Chris [union leader (of AIPA at the time)- now CP(of QF)]"
Nose Wheel: "acceptance for the commencement of Nat Jet, Air Link, Impulse, AA and now Jet Connect (The TJ caberet) as subsidiaries in the QF camp are because their unions allowed them to be a part of their ops."
I read this as the former 'team coach' of the AIPA UNION was worth poaching, considering all the deals done where infavour QF's bottom line. He is now the CP and know's all the moves from the previous 'games' played, leaving us in the s**t for future rounds.
Barbers Pole "Quite clever how he (Dixon)is setting up competition for flying/routes within QF between AA & Jetconnect & QF, very soon he'll be asking the QF pilots to take condition cuts if they don't want more flying to disappear to AA/JC"
Funny how we were told NO routes would compete between QF
and AA etc. WE should have read the fine print.... if we take the route from QF (due loads, profit), thay can use AA etc. as they are not competing with you.
Sonny Hammond "IT IS NOT JUST THE QF MAINLINE GUYS UNDERSIEGE, ITS OUR WHOLE PROFESSION."
As Sonny says, the whole industry is getting a flogging. If QF, as the largest pilot group in OZ starts to under-cut it own staff, the flow down will be quick to come to the allready" low cost" employes. The conditions that people before us cemented will be chipped away forever in agreements that were over-looked by shortsighted union members "Interested in Promotion to Administration!"
I don't know an answer, just hope in 20 years we are not on 'bus driver' wages and the local bus driver is not "driving/flying" his craft to SIN for twice as much pay!
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With all due respect FFRATS, I don't think that the blame for the current erosion of pilot's conditions can be put at the doorstep of the current QF pilots percieved lack of industrial fortitude.
Virgin Blue were very lucky to have started up just as AN was about to go belly-up. With such a surplus of pilots, they were able to find the required numbers who would accept such drastically reduced conditions to keep flying. And I don't really blame them - altruism does not pay the mortgage or the school fees, or put food on the table. Would they have found the numbers if Ansett was strong in a strong aviation climate?
Now we at QF get preached at ... endlessly ... by or CEO about our cost-base compared to Virgin Blue's. Personally, I've had a gutful of it, and I'm sure that a lot of other people in QF feel likewise. To the company, most staff these days are perceived as nothing else except a drain on the financial bottom-line. No wonder company morale is on the slide. Combined with this, the Company seem to be finding new and interesting ways to undercut us by setting up new companies or using other strategies at a time when the industrial ball is firmly in the employer's court.
Yes, FFRATS I suppose that we could all walk-off the job, but I know that there would be 10 guys for every one of us in QF who would be prepared to do our jobs for less than what the Virgin Blue guys get paid - we know that they're out there. And in my opinion, they're the ones who are responsible for the slide in conditions - some of them appear on these forums and tell us that we're so overpaid. It's probably really the progression of people who allowed AN to become a basket-case who are responsible - and they're probalby still enjoying their big management bonuses somewhere on the Gold Coast.
Virgin Blue were very lucky to have started up just as AN was about to go belly-up. With such a surplus of pilots, they were able to find the required numbers who would accept such drastically reduced conditions to keep flying. And I don't really blame them - altruism does not pay the mortgage or the school fees, or put food on the table. Would they have found the numbers if Ansett was strong in a strong aviation climate?
Now we at QF get preached at ... endlessly ... by or CEO about our cost-base compared to Virgin Blue's. Personally, I've had a gutful of it, and I'm sure that a lot of other people in QF feel likewise. To the company, most staff these days are perceived as nothing else except a drain on the financial bottom-line. No wonder company morale is on the slide. Combined with this, the Company seem to be finding new and interesting ways to undercut us by setting up new companies or using other strategies at a time when the industrial ball is firmly in the employer's court.
Yes, FFRATS I suppose that we could all walk-off the job, but I know that there would be 10 guys for every one of us in QF who would be prepared to do our jobs for less than what the Virgin Blue guys get paid - we know that they're out there. And in my opinion, they're the ones who are responsible for the slide in conditions - some of them appear on these forums and tell us that we're so overpaid. It's probably really the progression of people who allowed AN to become a basket-case who are responsible - and they're probalby still enjoying their big management bonuses somewhere on the Gold Coast.
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Good post Three Bars!
You are spot on when you talk about the various wannabes out there who are the real threat to the pay and conditions of all airline pilots.
They just dont get it do they?
You are spot on when you talk about the various wannabes out there who are the real threat to the pay and conditions of all airline pilots.
They just dont get it do they?