Is DJ really half an Airline?
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
C'mon Amos.
Both you and I know that neither Virgin Blue, nor any other low cost airline - regardless of where in the world they operate - is gunna employ cleaning staff again.
The precedent has been set.
The hard,cold facts are (that) there are heaps of applicants who will do the job willingly, for the same price.
Of ALL the regulars here, Amos, you can appreciate that - with patience - the wheel will turn full circle.
The willow bends with the strong wind - the oak breaks.
...and tidying up after oneself, does NOT constitute "cleaning the cabin".
The general cleaning up is still left to the crew.
Akin to how pilots leave the flight deck for the next crew!
Both you and I know that neither Virgin Blue, nor any other low cost airline - regardless of where in the world they operate - is gunna employ cleaning staff again.
The precedent has been set.
The hard,cold facts are (that) there are heaps of applicants who will do the job willingly, for the same price.
Of ALL the regulars here, Amos, you can appreciate that - with patience - the wheel will turn full circle.
The willow bends with the strong wind - the oak breaks.
...and tidying up after oneself, does NOT constitute "cleaning the cabin".
The general cleaning up is still left to the crew.
Akin to how pilots leave the flight deck for the next crew!
Gee, I guess the Virgin ads really ARE true - it seems you don't get Virgin Blue service (like this report)everywhere...!
Kap M - I can see what you're getting at - the only difference is that it is part of the crews job to tidy up after themselves, and as such they get paid whilst doing it. I can hardly see how tidying up the cabin should be asked of someone who was paying for the privilege of travelling from A to B.
Then again, we should probably stop pointing these things out. I'm expecting the usual reply that it doesn't what anyone else thinks, because Virgin is such a fun/cool/relaxed place to work blah blah blah...
Kap M - I can see what you're getting at - the only difference is that it is part of the crews job to tidy up after themselves, and as such they get paid whilst doing it. I can hardly see how tidying up the cabin should be asked of someone who was paying for the privilege of travelling from A to B.
Then again, we should probably stop pointing these things out. I'm expecting the usual reply that it doesn't what anyone else thinks, because Virgin is such a fun/cool/relaxed place to work blah blah blah...
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So Kaptin M you are quite happy with the concept of pilots helping out in the cabin cleaning seat pockets and tidying seat belts? I think you miss the point between expecting "guests" to tidy up after themselves and cabin crew actually using the PA to ask them to clean the seat as it would make it easier for them. I also don't understand your point about the wheel turning. The low cost airline is here to stay. So as you say they will never employ dedicated cleaning staff and will expect that the flight staff i.e. cabin and tech crew will do the tidying up.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
I wouldn't say that I'm "happy"
But it is a fait accompli in the "low cost" airline where I work.
99.9% (not an accurate figure, but a guesstimate) the Cabin Crew are able to handle the lot without other assistance - however, once in a while for many and varied reasons eg, a high number of non-ambulatorys, max pax load both ways, the crew wanting to get back for a hot date!! (the MOST important one), everybody...including the Ground Engineers and check-in staff, will help out.
If the flight is delayed, it's the girls who get the kick in the butt because the system has been in place for almost 4 years now.
Do "guests" have the right to come on to an aircraft, make a mess, and expect to have it cleaned up for them? This comes down to common courtesy and self pride, I believe. I further believe that MOST people travelling on public transport make the effort to maintain tidy personal space, for the benefit of everyone.
Who wants to sit next to a pig?
Perhaps on THAT particular flight there was a higher number of "grubs" than is usual.
Possibly the ensuing flight was pushing slot times, and the Captain may have requested the F/A's to try to speed up the turnaround time.
In any case, it is not the norm, and as such, the reason for this thread. It was an extra-ordinary request.
"Both you and I know that neither Virgin Blue, nor any other low cost airline - regardless of where in the world they operate - is gunna employ cleaning staff again." (please understand the ambiguity of my sentence). Without a doubt, when professional cleaning staff are employed, the cabin cleanliness is undoubtedly of a noticeably higher standard, the Cabin Crew have far more time to prepare for the next lot of "guests", and the chances of the flight getting out on sked are enhanced. These are just a few of the reasons I believe that airlines need a dedicated cleaning staff - be they the airlines own employees, or a contracted company - and thus I feel that to operate more efficiently, airlines will find the need for cleaners.
Especially if a slot time or curfew is missed.
with the concept of pilots helping out in the cabin cleaning seat pockets and tidying seat belts
99.9% (not an accurate figure, but a guesstimate) the Cabin Crew are able to handle the lot without other assistance - however, once in a while for many and varied reasons eg, a high number of non-ambulatorys, max pax load both ways, the crew wanting to get back for a hot date!! (the MOST important one), everybody...including the Ground Engineers and check-in staff, will help out.
If the flight is delayed, it's the girls who get the kick in the butt because the system has been in place for almost 4 years now.
I think you miss the point between expecting "guests" to tidy up after themselves....
Who wants to sit next to a pig?
.....and cabin crew actually using the PA to ask them to clean the seat as it would make it easier for them.
Possibly the ensuing flight was pushing slot times, and the Captain may have requested the F/A's to try to speed up the turnaround time.
In any case, it is not the norm, and as such, the reason for this thread. It was an extra-ordinary request.
I also don't understand your point about the wheel turning.
Especially if a slot time or curfew is missed.
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You lot can't surely believe all this nonsense you're prattling on about?!
Do you clean the hotel room after an overnight? Not leave it tidy but clean it?
Of course not!...we're in fruitloop land here!
Do you clean the hotel room after an overnight? Not leave it tidy but clean it?
Of course not!...we're in fruitloop land here!
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Okay Amos, let's use a hotel room as an example.
You have a bit of a night out with your crew, and end up back in YOUR room.
A can or two (of XXXX) ends up all over the desk....the usual (now emptied) packets of snacks have missed the garbage bin, and are lying, crimpled around it....someone (NOT you!!) had too much to drink, and missed the big white telephone - but managed to spray it with lumpy carrots....you woke up early with your bowels a little looser than the norm.
Are you gonna tell me that you leave the room like that, when you check out?
I would sincerely doubt it!
Pride would dictate otherwise.
The pax are NOT being asked to "clean the CABIN" - only to leave their own "personal space" as they found it.
We live in a civilised society ~?@well MOST of us tend to THINK we do ~ and to my mind, that means taking responsibility for the area that you occupy.
I`d be interested in running a poll on this one.
You have a bit of a night out with your crew, and end up back in YOUR room.
A can or two (of XXXX) ends up all over the desk....the usual (now emptied) packets of snacks have missed the garbage bin, and are lying, crimpled around it....someone (NOT you!!) had too much to drink, and missed the big white telephone - but managed to spray it with lumpy carrots....you woke up early with your bowels a little looser than the norm.
Are you gonna tell me that you leave the room like that, when you check out?
I would sincerely doubt it!
Pride would dictate otherwise.
The pax are NOT being asked to "clean the CABIN" - only to leave their own "personal space" as they found it.
We live in a civilised society ~?@well MOST of us tend to THINK we do ~ and to my mind, that means taking responsibility for the area that you occupy.
I`d be interested in running a poll on this one.
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Kaptin you are still contradicting yourself. You say that the low cost operators will have to employ cleaning staff but you also say that they never will employ cleaning staff. I think there is always an expectation that people will leave their seat tidy thats what my Mum called manners but if they don't then the crew have to do it.
To use the hotel analogy how would you feel if when you checked out the young person at reception said "Have you tidied your room?".
To use the hotel analogy how would you feel if when you checked out the young person at reception said "Have you tidied your room?".
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Is DJ really half an Airline?
Methinks the answer is NO.
However given time (to mature in an organisational sense) yes, it may eventually become half an airline.
In the mean time, they are just nibbling around the edges of the airline game.
ding
However given time (to mature in an organisational sense) yes, it may eventually become half an airline.
In the mean time, they are just nibbling around the edges of the airline game.
ding
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Gee, 40% of the domestic market is a pretty decent sized nibble.
This figure can be verified by any QF dept.
One day they will grow up to be a big airline, maybe when the international flights start, or when Virgin Atlantic fly in, or when Rex tie up with DJ.
Watch this space. July is the start. One of three things are about to happen.
This figure can be verified by any QF dept.
One day they will grow up to be a big airline, maybe when the international flights start, or when Virgin Atlantic fly in, or when Rex tie up with DJ.
Watch this space. July is the start. One of three things are about to happen.
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Happy, happy, joy, joy,
another day of VB bashing. Its such a cruel world. Whinge, whinge, whinge.
Its all good and well for some of the QF folks to offer a "helping hand" to the AN staff who lost jobs ( great publicity ) but when these talented people actually gain employment (lots with DJ) and can no longer be patronised by the heros then they become "kids"???
Go figure.
We all have jobs, most of us have 2 arms and 2 legs and we live in a great country! Grow up.
Incidently if "low cost" is such an aweful thing.... Shall we talk about "Australian Airlines" I hear Australian is doing famously; not bad considering the cutbacks in other parts of the rat. Hmm. Just quietly I think the white and Ochre scheme is something we will all be seeing a lot more of.
another day of VB bashing. Its such a cruel world. Whinge, whinge, whinge.
Its all good and well for some of the QF folks to offer a "helping hand" to the AN staff who lost jobs ( great publicity ) but when these talented people actually gain employment (lots with DJ) and can no longer be patronised by the heros then they become "kids"???
Go figure.
We all have jobs, most of us have 2 arms and 2 legs and we live in a great country! Grow up.
Incidently if "low cost" is such an aweful thing.... Shall we talk about "Australian Airlines" I hear Australian is doing famously; not bad considering the cutbacks in other parts of the rat. Hmm. Just quietly I think the white and Ochre scheme is something we will all be seeing a lot more of.
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Amos you are indeed in fruitloop land mate. Your second last line on the previous page sums you up to a tee! Your mind numbing neanderthal thought process (or lack there of) are bereft of anything resembling intellectual capacity of an adult. You and many of the other morons in here need to wake up and face reality. Welcome to the 21st century and all the pleasantries associated with it. Competition, cheap air fares, brand new a/c, a new attitude, a zest for getting the job done, smiling faces just to mention a few. Yep things are pretty crappy aren't they Amos? I mean we would all prefer the anal retentive no service garbage from days gone by.
Yeah bring back the high air fares, bring back the lack of service, bring back the inefficient past practices; and you have the audacity to call people idiots mate! There are only a few and they are the ones who consistantly deride Virgin no matter what they do. You continue grovelling in your little squalor of self importance old man. The rest of us will get on with our life enjoying the fruits of a modern forward thinking airline. Someone was laughing at 40% market share. This time last year they were laughing at 15%. Short memories hey lads?
I feel very sorry for people such as you and your ilk. Very very sad indeed!
Yeah bring back the high air fares, bring back the lack of service, bring back the inefficient past practices; and you have the audacity to call people idiots mate! There are only a few and they are the ones who consistantly deride Virgin no matter what they do. You continue grovelling in your little squalor of self importance old man. The rest of us will get on with our life enjoying the fruits of a modern forward thinking airline. Someone was laughing at 40% market share. This time last year they were laughing at 15%. Short memories hey lads?
I feel very sorry for people such as you and your ilk. Very very sad indeed!
Last edited by Sperm Bank; 8th Jun 2003 at 05:56.
Touche
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
To use the hotel analogy how would you feel if when you checked out the young person at reception said "Have you tidied your room?".
Ever hired a rental car, permFO - if you have, you will have noticed one of the conditions of the agreement states that cars that are returned and requiring extra cleaning will incur added charges.
"I think there is always an expectation that people will leave their seat tidy thats what my Mum called manners but if they don't then.."...then they are not acting as responsible individuals.
Why would responsible people DELIBERATELY leave a mess behind in a public area - especially in such an enclosed space - and one that they KNOW is going to be occupied by another person shortly after they vacate.
I don't understand your logic in trying to defend sloth, permFO
Maybe too long spent back in the "mother country"?
"Kaptin you are still contradicting yourself. You say that the low cost operators will have to employ cleaning staff but you also say that they never will employ cleaning staff." No, I`m not (contradicting myself), permFO. Look up the meaning of the word "ambiguous" and use that wrt to my sentence.
Ever hired a rental car, permFO - if you have, you will have noticed one of the conditions of the agreement states that cars that are returned and requiring extra cleaning will incur added charges.
"I think there is always an expectation that people will leave their seat tidy thats what my Mum called manners but if they don't then.."...then they are not acting as responsible individuals.
Why would responsible people DELIBERATELY leave a mess behind in a public area - especially in such an enclosed space - and one that they KNOW is going to be occupied by another person shortly after they vacate.
I don't understand your logic in trying to defend sloth, permFO
Maybe too long spent back in the "mother country"?
"Kaptin you are still contradicting yourself. You say that the low cost operators will have to employ cleaning staff but you also say that they never will employ cleaning staff." No, I`m not (contradicting myself), permFO. Look up the meaning of the word "ambiguous" and use that wrt to my sentence.
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Well said spermbank but as you know it will not be long before someone from the rat will find something else to have a go at VB about.
They must be getting worried like you say market share has grown 25% in the past year and they believe your something to be laughed at
They must be getting worried like you say market share has grown 25% in the past year and they believe your something to be laughed at
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Don't know what "swallor" means SB but considering your moniker and profile didn't bother looking it up!
You consider yourself representative of the new breed? God help us!
...oh! and by the way...my posts were actually send ups! You couldn't pick that?
...perhaps you take yourself a little too seriously, would you think?
You consider yourself representative of the new breed? God help us!
...oh! and by the way...my posts were actually send ups! You couldn't pick that?
...perhaps you take yourself a little too seriously, would you think?
Last edited by amos2; 7th Jun 2003 at 16:49.
