Ex-AN drivers taken for a ride???

[Kaptin M]

The issues you raise, Sal-e, are NOT those being discussed in this thread.

However, imo, given the general scenario(s) you have outlined, I'd say, in a broad sense that you are more than likely, probably correct.

[knackeredII]

You mean his ponts are not Sal-e-ant...?

[amos2]

Just to add a little more to this interesting story of Gilligan, and he is an interesting character, the type of person to whom things seem to happen...like lowering the gear on approach and finding out that a frozen stowaway dropped out with the Dunlops!
I think someone has already alluded to his Bangkok Bar episode and there was also the time he took on a car when he decided to cross the road regardless of traffic, and came off very much second best, but to his credit he doesn't wimp and whinge about these distractions to his life but just carries on.
Anyway he was employed by Air Nauru a few years back and when the Chief pilot went on sick leave Gilligan became acting chief pilot. Well as is the wont with the board of Air Nauru, while the CP was on sick leave they sacked him... the CP that is, not Gilligan.
Gilligan, being the soldier of fortune that he is, accepted the CPs position when it was offered to him much to the disgust of his fellow pilots.
An interesting time followed until the board of Air Nauru, as is there wont, sacked Gilligan!
After some behind the scenes manouvering Gilligan got himself re-engaged as a consultant to Air Nauru until the board composition changed and he got the boot again.
Since then he's been tied up with things like starting a new airline, trying to take over Qantas, buying out Virgin etc. All those things that budding entrepreneurs are always wanting to do.
But you know what...he never quite succeeds! He will go to his grave trying but he can never quite pull it off.
So , whilst I can't admire this latest venture of his I wouldn't really be too concerned if I were one of Air Naurus current pilots.
Gilligan tries hard to be a thorough bastard but in actual fact he's just a lighweight, likeable rogue!

[Eastwest Loco]

Isn't the correct medical term for when nobody in the room remember anything when quizzed on a set of past circumstances called Polynesia??

Seems logical to me.

Best all

EWL

[fruitbatflyer]

Amos, thank you for the accurate biography on our mtual friend Gilligan, though I hesitate to describe him as in any way likeable. Detestable, perhaps.
Sal-e, you are right in asserting that any airline management worth its salt would want to contain costs, including crewing costs.
A problem arises though when a management seeks to replace overnight an entire skilled section performing a task which requires such subtleties as currency in the airline's own EPs, own SOPs, own recurrent simulator program and recency on the particular air routes. Now, this management has so far NOT indicated that it wishes to sack us, so I am not accusing them of anything.
However, we have evidence that Gilligan has written to the airline board via at least one minister in the government with a fabulous offer of huge savings in pilot costs. Sure, if there was an orderly and planned handover he could probably do it for less salary, though any pilot brought up in the Ansett system would need a lot of re-education in areas of ETOPS and other operating economies in a very demanding area where 'stuff' doesn't always happen like it does in Oz.
Even if a handover was properly executed, the big cost up-front would be the learning curve, and rest assured, Gilligan would gouge the locals just like he did in the past.
As for the aspirations of the local pilots - they are probably better served under the present administration than ever before.
Then there is the matter of that vital contract which WILL go elsewhere if the airline gets the wobblies. The airline wouldn't survive without that contract, and the hardship if it failed would hit the Islanders much more than we few pilots who would probably find other work.

[Sal-e]

real issue of the thread

You are right Kpt M. I wasn't addressing the issue . But all the constructive comments made on this matter is really a matter of cabinet in the Nauru parliament and regardless of all that had been said on this thread, I feel that my previous comment had been pointing more towards the eventual conclusion. I'm afraid to say then that every statement made sounds a little whingey and nothing said here would change the owners of the airline's mind.
For the record though, from my limited knowledge of issues that are almost strictly Australian, I do not support people who cross floors in the name of vengeance.
I think this comment had been more.... ummm Sal-e-nt. ahem.

[Sal-e]

Gilligan

I think Gilligan plans on paying the replacement pilots salaries in the Isle of Mann or the Canaries to avoid this whole tax thing. It would cost the company half as the company pays for the incumbents taxes to maintain their net pre July tax ruling.
What does anyone think of that?

[DOWN, THR33_GR33Ns]

It doesn't matter where those treachorously pinching the jobs of others are paid, they WILL be liable for Australian tax if they don't meet the Oz Tax Office's requirements for non-residency. They may get paid an amount into their "Swiss Bank" but if they don't declare it and the ATO finds out (it's amazing what information they get fed covertly) then the penalties are severe. The ATO changed the rules significantly recently, ask a lot of CX pilots.

If this Gilligan fellow is telling the potential job thieves otherwise (ie their salaries will be tax free) then they are being further led up the garden path than was at first evident.

[Sal-e]

ATO

Down3gr33ns,

for what i understand, the ATO does not have access to anyones account in these kind of overseas banks. hell, those accounts don't even have to be in their names. off course bringing the funds to australia would have to be on a cash basis only. you are permitted to bring in $20,000 at any one time without declaring. everything would have to be on a cash basis. but if the ATO decides to raid their homes to collect evidence of tax evasion, all their(ansett jockeys) assets would have been there already prior to July. like i mentioned, taking on the job would only serve to top up their retirement petty cash. they leave aust on visas and come back in on visas. nothing sus about that at all. unless off course ATO waits for them at the airport everytime to see them arrive in uniforms!! highly unlikely.

[DOWN, THR33_GR33Ns]

The first post on this matter mentioned "jobs based in Australia" so I think it reasonable that the ATO would expect the pilots to be earning an income, however paid. This is especially so when, from what I've been able to find out, Nauru Air pilots often operate into/out of Oz, and that means crew lists (my QF mates call them form fives or similar) for entry and not visas - that would certainly cause alarm bells to ring. The ATO legislation is quite specific, you MUST declare overseas income except in certain circumstances. I am informed that working in Nauru no longer attracts non-residence status (a search of the ATO archives indicates that pilots there some time ago had an appeal for partial relief on those grounds rejected) and that would seem to threaten the "tax free" potential. Unless of course the individuals want to take the risk and not declare their oversaes income - and wouldn't you think there would be some aggrieved individuals who would seek to expose that if Gilligan gets his way???

Don't you also think if the ability to be paid overseas was a realistic avenue then the current pilots would have done just that and the airline would have avoided the significant impost of Oz tax? That they didn't (can't??) seems to put things in perspective.

Incidentally, I think the limit is $10,000. Was on my last trip out of Oz a couple of months ago.

[VH-WASA]

You would have to be a real low-life, scum-bag son of a beach to even consider selling yourself cheap in an attempt to replace a stable existing pilot group currently enjoying employment.
I hope you ex AN pilots do not get mixed up in this low act. It's a funny profession, word gets around and your names will be mud for the rest of your careers.
As for that "Gilligan", seems like a piece of sheet to me. a loser like that should be stood on.

[coco-nuts]

GILLIGAN and his mob will not get a start!!!!
the new chairman is none other than kc who gilligan upset badly over the guam/loss of aoc issue a year or so back...

this is what the lawyer advising the board tells us anyway....

i think this will settle the issue until the next time he comes up with more of the same cr@p.

cheers and a merry new year to all.

[Kaptin M]

That's good news, Coco ('owzitgoinmate?} - hopefully the (sensible) decision is partly due to the real-time input here on PPRuNe

From the many contributions that Home Brew has managed to elicit, it would seem that the "chickens have at last come home to roost".

If only Danny's "baby" had been alive back in the late '80's, professional pilots might THEN have had the access to a medium that allowed FULL, UNADULTERATED ACCESS, to proper discussion of the current events.
Whether [GREED would still have prevailed (over moral upbringing) can probabaly debated until the chooks come home!!
Personally, I choose to believe that I would not have lost several of my valued friendships of that time, because of "forced errors".

Anyway, Coco a wise decision for your airline, imho.
The issues have been extremely well debated here, and Fish head aka Gilligan has likewise been exposed for trying to do WHAT he tried to do, for WHY he tried to do it.

Let's ALL wish your airline "Well", and hope to see YOU and Air Nauru prosper from all of your hard-earned efforts.

But above ALL else, let's NEVER forget those nights in Manila!!!!!

[coco-nuts]

Kapt M to your last post , thumbs up
to Manila ,2 thumbs up.
happy new year.

[Kwaj mate]

What about the small matter of the airline paying ATO costs for ex-pat pilots.
Understand that some nationals live off-shore as well.
What about their tax - or did the last GM look after this incidental cost as well ?
KC should bring things together again & get the airline running efficiently.
Will the "Silver Fox" have some say in operational matters again?
Trust KC brings him back as a consultant & keeps his other mate, the old Professor, out of the business.
Best of luck with the airline in the New Year.

[TIMMEEEE]

The sad fact is that the island state of Nauru is flat bankrupt and their previous funds (which were plenty) have been either lost through corruption or just withered away.

The only real income for Nauru apparently comes from foreign aid or the Australian govt 'donations' for holding assylum seekers on their island.

An even more sad is the fact that those in charge just may accept this offer for a 50% wage cut.
Reprehensible, but I would love to know if Gilligan and any ex AN guys have the guts to attempt such a low act.

Time will tell and if they do accept they will be the true pariahs of the pacific.

[fruitbatflyer]

OK, seems that with the good inputs above, TG and the Sand CrABs are stitched up. Long live pprune! Next on the hit-list has to be the 'consultants' (is a consultant one who can't hold down a real job because no-one will employ them, or perhaps because their useful input would never fill a 40 hour week??). A few of these parasites have had their snout in the trough for too many years already, and it really is time the government was weaned off these users.
One would hope that the new airline board and CEO (all of which have yet to be officially announced) will listen to the accumulated experience of those already serving the airline well. That may not be everybody, but certainly a few with a lot of time in the industry
are willing to put in the effort with no extra dollar expectations.
As for the tax question, it is only the expats that have a liability because the new rules suck them in regardless of where they actually reside. Locals still enjoy tax-free status, for now at least.

[Kwaj mate]

Thx fruity.
I was interested in the position of their nationals, who may reside in Australia or other regional states, & how they cope with their tax bills.
The act of the airline paying tax bills for Australian residents generates even higher income levels, including FBT; and that will make the ATO assessments very interesting.
The salary & tax bills to the airline must be rather impressive.

[Gnadenburg]

Young exAN F/O on the APA website imploring his former colleauges not to undercut at Air Nauru. What are his chances?

Good on him though, no alias used and you can only try to do what is right.

[Spad]

Doesn’t that ex-AN FO know that the gentlemen he’s addressing will simply have to take the job on offer ‘for the sake of their families’? (That phrase will have a very familiar ring to it to quite a few older readers from both sides of the ‘Great Divide’ (not the mountain range) who troll this site.)

And TIMMEEEE. you say in your last post that

…Time will tell and if they do accept they will be the true pariahs of the pacific.

Some would say that your use of the future tense in that comment might be somewhat unusual.

This unfortunate Nauru business is a bit like individual pain thresholds or different individuals’ concepts as to what is considered acceptable, say, on early evening television. One man’s light, perhaps slightly naughty entertainment is gross pornography to another.

While there are many who cannot see that the actions of ‘The Few’ in 1989 in taking back their (or coming in and taking) jobs in AN and TN was in any way wrong, it would appear that there are far fewer who would not feel that it would be morally wrong for anyone to take a job in Nauru now through the offer Gilligan is making to the Air Nauru management.

Unless, of course, you see no other way of looking after the interests of your family (there’s that phrase again). Then, the sharp, easily-defined lines denoting what is and isn’t morally acceptable can become somewhat blurred, especially if you’ve gone through the painful process once before in your life and managed to rationalise your actions into an acceptable form – to yourself, at least. There’s an old saying that no one misses another slice of bread off the loaf that’s already been cut. Rationalising (what for some is unrationisable) is a bit like that. Many think that decisions like the one made by ‘The Few’ in 1989 and the one some of those same people might be about to make now are exactly the same. There’s no degree to it – it’s exactly like being “only a little bit pregnant”.