Air NZ plane forced to make emergency landing
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MoFo,
You forgot to mention the media golden rule "never let the facts get in the way of a good story"
You also forgot Plummet, Slammed and Engulfed.
Was it my imagination, or did the female reporter on Holmes tonight look like she was going to puke as she was leaving the Sim?
You forgot to mention the media golden rule "never let the facts get in the way of a good story"
You also forgot Plummet, Slammed and Engulfed.
Was it my imagination, or did the female reporter on Holmes tonight look like she was going to puke as she was leaving the Sim?
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SepsOff - I noticed that too. She sure didnt waste any time getting out 
In regards to Holmes tonight I was very dissapointed with HIM referring to Air NZ's incident as the"Crash" landing - Youd expect that given he has a background in aviation his choice of words would be a little better
In regards to Holmes tonight I was very dissapointed with HIM referring to Air NZ's incident as the"Crash" landing - Youd expect that given he has a background in aviation his choice of words would be a little better
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flyby,
You are talking about an aviation veteran who has had numerous "incidents" (accidents) himself.
For example: Circling an unattended north island airfield as a SPL on a solo x-c looking at a limp windsock and not being able to decide which vector to land on. Then leaving in search of another, hopefully that had a windsock that pointed!
He doesn't seem to have much luck with horses either.
You are talking about an aviation veteran who has had numerous "incidents" (accidents) himself.
For example: Circling an unattended north island airfield as a SPL on a solo x-c looking at a limp windsock and not being able to decide which vector to land on. Then leaving in search of another, hopefully that had a windsock that pointed!
He doesn't seem to have much luck with horses either.
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The thing that worries me the most about the standard of journalism here and NZ is that the public tend to believe what they read and hear.
Unfortunately I suspect that does include "Maketing W#$%*&^s
and CFO's just the sort of people runing most of todays major ailines.
It really makes you wonder where we are heading.
Unfortunately I suspect that does include "Maketing W#$%*&^s
and CFO's just the sort of people runing most of todays major ailines.
It really makes you wonder where we are heading.
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Further Media Hype
To add to the hype, channel 7 news this morning was talking about a -
"FULL SCALE EMERGENCY AT THE AIRPORT"
Good heavens, another FULL SCALE emergency. Not just a half scale emergency.
Skipper- "Ladies and Gentlemen, it appears we have lost half of our allotted engines and therefore we will be returning to Brisbane where they are preparing for a Half Scale Emergency."
"FULL SCALE EMERGENCY AT THE AIRPORT"
Good heavens, another FULL SCALE emergency. Not just a half scale emergency.
Skipper- "Ladies and Gentlemen, it appears we have lost half of our allotted engines and therefore we will be returning to Brisbane where they are preparing for a Half Scale Emergency."
I am sure that Australian pilots would be familiar with the AIP definition of Full Emergency compared with Local Standby:
6.3 Full Emergency
6.3.1 A Full Emergency is declared when activation of more than just airport-based responding agencies is advisable. A Full
Emergency will be declared when an aircraft approaching the
airport is known or suspected to be in such trouble that there is
danger of an accident. In order to provide the appropriate
response, one of the following levels must be used by ATS in
declaring the Full Emergency to outside services:
a. Level I – up to 18 seats (ATC – Light).
b. Level II – up to 150 seats (ATC – Medium).
c. Level III – up to 450 seats (ATC – Heavy).
6.3.2 When a Full Emergency has been declared, the response will be
from all services including on-airport services according to the
level (I,II or III) notified.
6.3.3 If a pilot declares a MAYDAY, then this equates to a Full
Emergency condition. The AEP will then be activated by declaring
“FULL EMERGENCY LEVEL (I, II or III)”.
6.3 Full Emergency
6.3.1 A Full Emergency is declared when activation of more than just airport-based responding agencies is advisable. A Full
Emergency will be declared when an aircraft approaching the
airport is known or suspected to be in such trouble that there is
danger of an accident. In order to provide the appropriate
response, one of the following levels must be used by ATS in
declaring the Full Emergency to outside services:
a. Level I – up to 18 seats (ATC – Light).
b. Level II – up to 150 seats (ATC – Medium).
c. Level III – up to 450 seats (ATC – Heavy).
6.3.2 When a Full Emergency has been declared, the response will be
from all services including on-airport services according to the
level (I,II or III) notified.
6.3.3 If a pilot declares a MAYDAY, then this equates to a Full
Emergency condition. The AEP will then be activated by declaring
“FULL EMERGENCY LEVEL (I, II or III)”.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
I guess, young master, that the intended REACTIVE word - INTENTIONALLY intorduced - was "scale".
"Full emergency", certainly gets the attention.
But "Full SCALE emergency" is intended to imply "lives are at risk".
Why don't you "f-off" - until you learn the sharp end of the pencil from the rubber!!
When you've done that, some of us will GLADLY assist you - rather than put you down!
"Full emergency", certainly gets the attention.
But "Full SCALE emergency" is intended to imply "lives are at risk".
Why don't you "f-off" - until you learn the sharp end of the pencil from the rubber!!
When you've done that, some of us will GLADLY assist you - rather than put you down!
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Who overhauls these engines? I don't actually think it is ANZ, I thought they were sent back to GE? I f that is the case, maybe ANZ should send them the bill for the panelbeating as well.
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Further to snowball's original post, why was this declared - as far as pax were concerned - an emergency landing, and they were briefed by cabin crew in what sounds like a brace/crash position procedure? Like most others I'm only going off the reported story and eye witness interviews... but are we sure the hype wasn't started by the ANZ crew?
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Boeing belly, you are being a bit harsh there fella, the incidents are isolated and only one of them was AirNZ fault (wing panel not secured)
A QF 747 had a engine shut down in the Tasman the other week and you don't see QF being lambasted by the media about being an unsafe airline.
375
As you obvisously know nothing about AirNZ's SOP's in regards to how we are trained to deal with this type of problem I suggest you keep your fingers off the keyboard and refrain from throwing mud at the crew!!!
Putting the pax into the brace position is a stardard procedure for us in an "prepared Emergency" landing.
A QF 747 had a engine shut down in the Tasman the other week and you don't see QF being lambasted by the media about being an unsafe airline.
375
As you obvisously know nothing about AirNZ's SOP's in regards to how we are trained to deal with this type of problem I suggest you keep your fingers off the keyboard and refrain from throwing mud at the crew!!!
Putting the pax into the brace position is a stardard procedure for us in an "prepared Emergency" landing.
Last edited by Barbers Pole; 9th Dec 2002 at 20:53.
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Barbers Pole, you might be a bit harsh yourself criticizing Boeing Belly.
After all, from the sounds of it, he had the inside gen and knew right from the beginning that the turbine failure was a fault of ANZ engineering.
I just hope he has passed on what he knows to the OZ/NZ/GE chappies to save them the bother of going through a long investigation.
After all, from the sounds of it, he had the inside gen and knew right from the beginning that the turbine failure was a fault of ANZ engineering.
I just hope he has passed on what he knows to the OZ/NZ/GE chappies to save them the bother of going through a long investigation.
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I have spoken to two friends abroad who are cabin crew and both their airlines use "Prepare for crash landing" as the last instruction from the flight deck that landing is imminent. Also the cabin crew yelling "Heads down, stay down" from then on is a pretty standard proceedure across many airlines.
In my initial training we discussed the "Prepare for crash landing" command used by other airlines. The company I work for uses "Brace. Brace. Brace." Which we all thought was far less distressing!
Nevertheless the tech and cabin crew obviously followed their SOPs and should be commended.
And as for "the look on the Chief Steward's face".... If he wasn't running up and down the cabin, screaming and flailing his arms like a big gay banshee, then he did pretty well in my opinion!
In my initial training we discussed the "Prepare for crash landing" command used by other airlines. The company I work for uses "Brace. Brace. Brace." Which we all thought was far less distressing!
Nevertheless the tech and cabin crew obviously followed their SOPs and should be commended.
And as for "the look on the Chief Steward's face".... If he wasn't running up and down the cabin, screaming and flailing his arms like a big gay banshee, then he did pretty well in my opinion!
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Ditzy ….. Perhaps you should go back and read your manuals again or your employee should have a long look at it’s emergency procedures. There is a vast difference between an emergency landing and a crash landing. An emergency landing is a “Non normal landing” in which sensible precautions are taken which may involve having the emergency services ready and or, having the cabin on alert and prepared for evacuation if necessary after landing. An example of this would be this flight landing with one engine shut down. A crash landing in one in which damage will result in landing for example landing with the gear up. Either the cockpit crew and or cabin crew got it all mixed up or more than likely, the media again displayed an appalling lack of knowledge of the aviation industry. To tell the passengers we are going to crash (crash land) guarantees total instant panic. To defend what was supposedly said is to say that all engine failures or loss of some flaps etc are to be treated as crash landings ………………… just astounding.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Congratulations to the Air New Zealand crew on a job well done.
Anyone know what flap configuration they used to land with? Flapless? Trailing edge only? I assume that the leading edges weren't available (and missing in one case!).
And the press missed a golden opportunity to use the phrase catastrophic engine failure - and didn't!
Too busy trying to think up other cr@p I guess.
Don't go too hard on them, Boeing Belly, it wasn't so long ago that "bits" were falling off QANTAS aircraft. remember the "piece of engine" that fell off near Cairns?
Engine failures such as this one are an irregular regularity - a JALways DC10 had a similar failure about 4 months ago after take-off from Nagoya for Bangkok, and about 10 days ago a JAS MD90 lost a donk also out of Nagoya.
And that's only two that I know about!
Anyone know what flap configuration they used to land with? Flapless? Trailing edge only? I assume that the leading edges weren't available (and missing
in one case!).And the press missed a golden opportunity to use the phrase catastrophic engine failure - and didn't!
Too busy trying to think up other cr@p I guess.
Don't go too hard on them, Boeing Belly, it wasn't so long ago that "bits" were falling off QANTAS aircraft. remember the "piece of engine" that fell off near Cairns?
Engine failures such as this one are an irregular regularity - a JALways DC10 had a similar failure about 4 months ago after take-off from Nagoya for Bangkok, and about 10 days ago a JAS MD90 lost a donk also out of Nagoya.
And that's only two that I know about!
short flights long nights
And I am fairly sure bits WERE about to fall off a lot of Ansett aircraft, but they were grounded before it could happen..... Then all the bits fell off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I'm not familiar with AirNZs procedures, nor the B767. From my observation of various photos and news reports I draw the following conclusions.[list=a][*]Leading edge devices were of doubtfull serviceablity.[*]Full extent of the damage couldn't be known by Tech or Cabin crew.[*]Better to be safe than sorry, thus brace for landing a good call.[*]Criticism of the crew's actions is poor form from Aussies. (Unfortunately it is becoming more and more prevelant and is the reason Dan K is no longer a moderator.)[*]AirNZ employees, as opposed to the AirNZ board, should not be villified for events of just over a year ago! [/list=a]
(edit to correct typo - phat phingers! )
(edit to correct typo - phat phingers!
)
Last edited by Dan Kelly; 10th Dec 2002 at 22:24.
boeing belly,
dear dear you are at it again, long line of safety breacges and incidents hey? probably no more than qantas have had in the last couple of years mate...
airnz didn't lose an aircraft off then end of a runway either
i can remember bits falling off qf aircraft, a 767 lost a gear door into darwin a couple of years ago and then there was the litany of safety incidents last year when qf was in the spotlight over their own maintenance
dear dear you are at it again, long line of safety breacges and incidents hey? probably no more than qantas have had in the last couple of years mate...
airnz didn't lose an aircraft off then end of a runway either
i can remember bits falling off qf aircraft, a 767 lost a gear door into darwin a couple of years ago and then there was the litany of safety incidents last year when qf was in the spotlight over their own maintenance