Virgin-Your taxi speeds are a JOKE!
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Join Date: Oct 1999
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Virgin-Your taxi speeds are a JOKE!
What is going on with Virgin Blue crews? Now I remember my ab-initio instructor saying "taxi at fast walking pace" BUT PLEASE! 737 pilots, this does not include you!!!!
The other day there was a line longer than the berlin wall waiting to depart 01 at BN. What's this, I thought; NO ONE IS ON THE APPROACH, MUST BE A VIRGIN AT THE FRONT OF THE LINE.
Alas, it was. So now it seems, not only are we delayed in the air when following a virgin (although it's not so bad now) we are hideously delayed on the ground!
Somebody enlighten us to the SOPs regarding taxi speeds at virgin.
PLEASE STEP ON IT VIRGIN BLUE FOR THE SAKE OF PRODUCTIVITY!
The other day there was a line longer than the berlin wall waiting to depart 01 at BN. What's this, I thought; NO ONE IS ON THE APPROACH, MUST BE A VIRGIN AT THE FRONT OF THE LINE.
Alas, it was. So now it seems, not only are we delayed in the air when following a virgin (although it's not so bad now) we are hideously delayed on the ground!
Somebody enlighten us to the SOPs regarding taxi speeds at virgin.
PLEASE STEP ON IT VIRGIN BLUE FOR THE SAKE OF PRODUCTIVITY!
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come on Bronte, give the boys a break.... There's a chance the captains probably only got 700 hours flying jets and the fo's probably only got 700 hours total (he must know raby). They're just finding their feet.
(ex dispute guys with a billion hours excluded.)
(ex dispute guys with a billion hours excluded.)
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Although I'm not a VB employee, I have to respond to your post, Bronte.
In the first instance who are YOU to tell other pilots that they are taxi-ing too SLOWLY. There are no minimum taxi speeds, only MAXIMUM specified in Ops manuals,
Why compromise SAFETY by taxi-ing at close to V1 speeeds?
Secondly your comment, "The other day there was a line longer than the berlin wall waiting to depart 01 at BN. What's this, I thought; NO ONE IS ON THE APPROACH, MUST BE A VIRGIN AT THE FRONT OF THE LINE." bears no relevance to taxi speeds.
In case you're unaware (are you a professional pilot, btw?), ATC dictate take-off clearances, which is what the first aircraft (regardless of the company) would have been awaiting.
Perhaps on the other hand they had something that was delaying their departure.
"PLEASE STEP ON IT VIRGIN BLUE FOR THE SAKE OF PRODUCTIVITY!"
Oh really?? And how much time do you THINK you save by taxi-ing at (say) 40 knots, instead of 15-20, only to arrive at the take-off point and ATC don't have a take-off clearance due flow control...or whatever.
Do you, Bronte also recommend flying at Vmo, delaying gear extension until 1,000' or lower, and using max braking - for the "sake of productivity"?
You sound to me, like an accident looking for somewhere to happen!!
In the first instance who are YOU to tell other pilots that they are taxi-ing too SLOWLY. There are no minimum taxi speeds, only MAXIMUM specified in Ops manuals,
Why compromise SAFETY by taxi-ing at close to V1 speeeds?
Secondly your comment, "The other day there was a line longer than the berlin wall waiting to depart 01 at BN. What's this, I thought; NO ONE IS ON THE APPROACH, MUST BE A VIRGIN AT THE FRONT OF THE LINE." bears no relevance to taxi speeds.
In case you're unaware (are you a professional pilot, btw?), ATC dictate take-off clearances, which is what the first aircraft (regardless of the company) would have been awaiting.
Perhaps on the other hand they had something that was delaying their departure.
"PLEASE STEP ON IT VIRGIN BLUE FOR THE SAKE OF PRODUCTIVITY!"
Oh really?? And how much time do you THINK you save by taxi-ing at (say) 40 knots, instead of 15-20, only to arrive at the take-off point and ATC don't have a take-off clearance due flow control...or whatever.
Do you, Bronte also recommend flying at Vmo, delaying gear extension until 1,000' or lower, and using max braking - for the "sake of productivity"?
You sound to me, like an accident looking for somewhere to happen!!
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"THE OTHER DAY THERE WAS A LINE AS LONG AS THE BERLIN WALL WAITING TO DEPART 01 AT BN" , as viewed from the public observation area with your bino's and scanner hey Bronte. You sound like such an private pilot.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
"flow control" is the sequencing of aircraft allocated by ATC to try to avoid congestion and to (try to) maintain a smooth flow of arriving and departing aircraft.
Aircraft operating into high traffic density airports such as many capital cities eg. Sydney, are often allocated a slot time, ie. a take-off time based on the flight planned time to give an arrival time at the destination that SHOULD involve minimum delay.
Hence, in this instance, had VB been operating on a slot time (which may also be based on the number of aircraft in certain airspace at the same time) and arrived at the take-off point a couple of minutes early, ATC may have been witholding T/O clearance.
It's also possible that because of OTHER aircraft interrupting the flow, VB was again held (through no fault of THEIRS) to allow ATC to sort things out.
Hope that helps.
Aircraft operating into high traffic density airports such as many capital cities eg. Sydney, are often allocated a slot time, ie. a take-off time based on the flight planned time to give an arrival time at the destination that SHOULD involve minimum delay.
Hence, in this instance, had VB been operating on a slot time (which may also be based on the number of aircraft in certain airspace at the same time) and arrived at the take-off point a couple of minutes early, ATC may have been witholding T/O clearance.
It's also possible that because of OTHER aircraft interrupting the flow, VB was again held (through no fault of THEIRS) to allow ATC to sort things out.
Hope that helps.
Hey Bronte, most operators and aircraft actually have speed restrictions for taxying in a straight line, and while cornering, depending on the surface conditions being dry, wet or icy. Maximum is 30kts on the 737 down to 4kts while cornering on an icy surface.
Now for passenger comfort, its not good sense to give a handful of power to reach max taxy speed, only to slam on the brakes to skid sideways around the corner - tis great for the whip lash!!
By the way Bronte, rwy 01 at vegas intersection A7, how do we know that the delay didn't have something to do with wake turbulance seperation from a heavy using the full length!!
Now for passenger comfort, its not good sense to give a handful of power to reach max taxy speed, only to slam on the brakes to skid sideways around the corner - tis great for the whip lash!!
By the way Bronte, rwy 01 at vegas intersection A7, how do we know that the delay didn't have something to do with wake turbulance seperation from a heavy using the full length!!
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Bronte:
Dont blame the tech crew, they were probably waitng for the flighty's to finish their conga line all dancin' safety brief.
QF loser:
Must I remind you of your minnimum reqt's? 500hrs give me a break!(when drawing the comparison to entry requirements)
I wonder if you would be so vocal to Mr Raby's face you spineless mut.
We are all laughing at you boy. Seems to me that "maintaing" you come from a Co. that has a cadet body of a lack of hours...well thats the best ruse I've heard in a long time!!!
This isn't a cadet bash but merely comparing notes to a vocal VB basher.
BTW I'm still waiting for your response on the QF nepotism thread. What's the matter "cat got your tounge?"
I have a nice big leather lounge paypacket take a seat. Lets start with your childhood...........
Dont blame the tech crew, they were probably waitng for the flighty's to finish their conga line all dancin' safety brief.
QF loser:
Must I remind you of your minnimum reqt's? 500hrs give me a break!(when drawing the comparison to entry requirements)
I wonder if you would be so vocal to Mr Raby's face you spineless mut.
We are all laughing at you boy. Seems to me that "maintaing" you come from a Co. that has a cadet body of a lack of hours...well thats the best ruse I've heard in a long time!!!
This isn't a cadet bash but merely comparing notes to a vocal VB basher.
BTW I'm still waiting for your response on the QF nepotism thread. What's the matter "cat got your tounge?"
I have a nice big leather lounge paypacket take a seat. Lets start with your childhood...........
Conversely, I always found Qantas tarmac aggression more of a problem than the odd guy who taxis slow. I thought that the Qantas 747 collapsed landing gear incident in Rome might slow the boys down. No, was taxiing for 19 BNE a few days later at 30kts( IRS Derived ) and to everyones surprise a QF 747 rushes past on the parallel with a massive overtake.
QFpaypacket
Couple of my mates just got their first command at Virgin Blue. Around 30 yo, approaching ten thousand hours. 70% of their experience on jets, lots of sectors too, not Second Officer time!
And when in glass houses! The bar must have lowered if those new speed restrictions have anything to do with management concern about your abilities to fly an efficient domestic descent profile.
QFpaypacket
Couple of my mates just got their first command at Virgin Blue. Around 30 yo, approaching ten thousand hours. 70% of their experience on jets, lots of sectors too, not Second Officer time!
And when in glass houses! The bar must have lowered if those new speed restrictions have anything to do with management concern about your abilities to fly an efficient domestic descent profile.
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OK, I am not a PPL and don't need everything explained to me as if I'm a retard. As a matter of fact I have over 6000 hours on jets mostly in Australia. (A320, 737)
Might be a bit my fault as I didn't explain the situation too well. This is just ONE situation at ONE airport. It happens everywhere: My whole gripe was about taxiing Virgin aircraft. So, this aircraft WAS NOT at the holding point just sitting there dreaming about the hosties behind them, they were taxiing, AT AN EXTEREMERLEY LOW SPEED. (<10 kts)
This is straight down a smooth, flat, dry, very long taxiway in bright daylight. Very frustrating for the 7 or so a/c "taxiing" behind. (think brakes overheating
)
If I can pick on you, Kaptin M:
PLEASE stop taking everything so seriously you loser!!!! My "productivity" comment was tounge-in-cheek. I thought that was as obvious as dogs b@lls. However, there is some thruth to it.
Might be a bit my fault as I didn't explain the situation too well. This is just ONE situation at ONE airport. It happens everywhere: My whole gripe was about taxiing Virgin aircraft. So, this aircraft WAS NOT at the holding point just sitting there dreaming about the hosties behind them, they were taxiing, AT AN EXTEREMERLEY LOW SPEED. (<10 kts)
This is straight down a smooth, flat, dry, very long taxiway in bright daylight. Very frustrating for the 7 or so a/c "taxiing" behind. (think brakes overheating
)If I can pick on you, Kaptin M:
PLEASE stop taking everything so seriously you loser!!!! My "productivity" comment was tounge-in-cheek. I thought that was as obvious as dogs b@lls. However, there is some thruth to it.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Bronte you can "pick on me" as often as you like - as long as you don`t get upset about what you`re given back. 
6,000 hours on jets, well depending on what you actually LEARNT during the accumulation of them, it MAY carry some weight.
However, your comments on this thread indicate that either you`re a very slow learner as a pilot - or perhaps they were gained as a "trolley dolly".
Both of your posts on this thread seem to indicate to me (with 15,000 hours) that you lack situational awareness, and an inability to accept that the VB aircraft with which you have decided to take issue, may very well have had a valid reason(s) for electing to taxi at that speed.
But don`t dig too deeply (although I doubt that you could be bothered anyway), in case you LEARN something.
Oh, I forgot ~ YOU`VE got over 6,000 hours on jets!!
6,000 hours on jets, well depending on what you actually LEARNT during the accumulation of them, it MAY carry some weight.
However, your comments on this thread indicate that either you`re a very slow learner as a pilot - or perhaps they were gained as a "trolley dolly".
Both of your posts on this thread seem to indicate to me (with 15,000 hours) that you lack situational awareness, and an inability to accept that the VB aircraft with which you have decided to take issue, may very well have had a valid reason(s) for electing to taxi at that speed.
But don`t dig too deeply (although I doubt that you could be bothered anyway), in case you LEARN something.
Oh, I forgot ~ YOU`VE got over 6,000 hours on jets!!
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Gnadenburg, you are showing your TOTAL ignorance of the circumstances surrounding the Rome incident by implying that high taxi speeds had something to do with the gear strut failing.
Point one:- TTT This thread has NOTHING to do with `89 so WHY THE HELL would you HAVE to attempt to hijack it!!
Point two:- I have no experience on the NGs but the Boeing reccommended max Taxi speed for the EFIS generation 737 was 20 kts. It was observed by AN and ignored by TN/QF. I don`t know if VB observe it, but a better phrased question like "Does DJ have a taxi speed limit" rather than "Pull your finger out" might have been appropriate from a professtional.
Wiz (9000hrs on jets and STILL know F-all!)
Point two:- I have no experience on the NGs but the Boeing reccommended max Taxi speed for the EFIS generation 737 was 20 kts. It was observed by AN and ignored by TN/QF. I don`t know if VB observe it, but a better phrased question like "Does DJ have a taxi speed limit" rather than "Pull your finger out" might have been appropriate from a professtional.
Wiz (9000hrs on jets and STILL know F-all!)
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A few weeks back it was their uniforms and now people are having a go at their taxi speeds, what's next?
In the last 6 months people seem to be trying hard to have a dig at VB, get over it, they are here to stay.
In the 36 seat aircaft I fly my main concern is passenger safety and comfort, not taxi speed.
In the last 6 months people seem to be trying hard to have a dig at VB, get over it, they are here to stay.
In the 36 seat aircaft I fly my main concern is passenger safety and comfort, not taxi speed.
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laydown in point of fact, the 737, 727 & 747 do have a stress component on the main gear struts (wing gear in 747) at high AUW's and high taxi speeds. Normally over uneven taxi surface, but is still a consideration.
Wizofoz - why must you always rise to the bait? IGNORE !
Keep the faith:]
Wizofoz - why must you always rise to the bait? IGNORE !
Keep the faith:]
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8 kts on tarmac, 12 kts around corners and 20 kts (Boeing policy) in a straight line. Boeing also says that on extended straight taxy ways 30 kts in acceptable. (Not Virgin policy however).
Why stampede for a delay at the holding point? So what if there were seven a/c behind him. It probably cost less than a minute out of their day. If you know anything about airline flying Bronte you would know that rushing is generally an exception rather than the rule.
If some pilots taxy slower than normal good luck to them. It's safe and manageable. Find something of genuine concern to whinge about mate or better still, contribute an intellectual topic for discussion!
Why stampede for a delay at the holding point? So what if there were seven a/c behind him. It probably cost less than a minute out of their day. If you know anything about airline flying Bronte you would know that rushing is generally an exception rather than the rule.
If some pilots taxy slower than normal good luck to them. It's safe and manageable. Find something of genuine concern to whinge about mate or better still, contribute an intellectual topic for discussion!
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One further point I would like to add.
Good on 'em.
If they are erring for safety it's one less thing they will have to justify to management if something goes pear shaped.
I could see it now.
Ok Capt so just before we kick it off would you please explain why you were first of all taxiing at 35kts?
Capt: For the company?to save money
Management:Is that right. Have you read the section in the op's manual in regard to safety?
Capt:Yes but......well there are these VB basher's on Pprune that say we taxi too slow.
Management
H! I'm sorry to have wasted your time, It's back on to line for you with our total apology.
Good on 'em.
If they are erring for safety it's one less thing they will have to justify to management if something goes pear shaped.
I could see it now.
Ok Capt so just before we kick it off would you please explain why you were first of all taxiing at 35kts?
Capt: For the company?to save money
Management:Is that right. Have you read the section in the op's manual in regard to safety?
Capt:Yes but......well there are these VB basher's on Pprune that say we taxi too slow.
Management
H! I'm sorry to have wasted your time, It's back on to line for you with our total apology.
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Maybe Introduce QARs
Over here there are QARs for everything... If you bust 25kts in a straight line or 15 in a turn..You make the company website!
When the limit is 25, most blokes are terrified of passing 20kts, just in case the taxyway suddenly slopes forward!
Maybe if QF/VJ/VQ etc had QARs they might think twice about the Highspeed passes on the outer taxyway..
Anyway the blokes who taxy at 5kts.... maybe they need the hours??
When the limit is 25, most blokes are terrified of passing 20kts, just in case the taxyway suddenly slopes forward!
Maybe if QF/VJ/VQ etc had QARs they might think twice about the Highspeed passes on the outer taxyway..
Anyway the blokes who taxy at 5kts.... maybe they need the hours??
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There is nothing worse than a cowboy up front. If VB choose to maintain a safe steady speed during groundops, it shows a mature approach to safety and comfort unlike some of the comments here on the subject. On the big aircraft I have flown, taxing fast causes a significant increases in brake temperatures (and tyre temperatures) which you may regret in a rejected T/O at high weight. 