Qantaslink to get more jets
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Can someone go way over the top and lay this out fully. Are we talking DRW-GOV-CNS, PER-AYQ/ASP-CNS as well as PER-KGI/KTA/PHE/BME/PBO/ZNE etc. What about other "connectors" like MEL-ASP or BNE-ASP. What about Intra-QLD. BNE-HTI,PPP,TSV? Will ROK,MKY be all 717 or still some 146? What about the services I mentioned in my last post that have been dropped? Was this due to lack of aircraft or lack of passengers? Someone must know!!!
Join Date: Oct 2002
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also new member
reading prune for a long time now. thought i might jump in and stir the pot a bit. absolutely a personal perspective.
also heard rumours of 4 new 717's.
thoughts of probable short term future (discounting another entrant) go like this.
146's will be phased out as leases expire. too old and unreliable though have done a sterling job and undoubtably contributed to QF's dispatch of an.
probable closure of 146 east coast bases as lease's expire (RK today, MK jan, BN end 2003 ? CB see earlier post this topic)
introduction of new regional jets will see end of 717's in OZ (not definite but view it from an accountant's perspective)
lowest bidder for regional QF operation will see even lower terms and conditions for the jungle jet drivers (what will your family's lifestyle be on 90k?)
njs or impulse will match terms to stay in the job and impulse keeps east coast, njs to west and top end.
suits qf to keep 2 companies running against each other to drive costs to absolute minimums. great for the shareholders. unfortunately the accountants seem to have forgotten about the safety aspect of flight operations.
Ansett kept us all honest and in a job. Now with traditional early decade downturn the boot is on managements collective feet and NO ONE is invulnerable.
PREDICTION-once regional bottom line is determined mainline drivers are next to be targeted.
SOLUTION-as professionals we will remain easy game until we achieve viable and united representation.
Don't count on those big stubbies yet Douglas, 146 is still cost effective for the accountants and still enjoys excellent public appeal. 4 still outguns 2 in my experience.
As for the future of the 146 crew's, I can't see an offer of integration into any existing QF structure (case in point the execution of Southerns), but I can see an addition to the expanding pool of excellent highly qualified and experienced drivers for any third airline start up.
Impulse may have the ear of the big bosses in QF at the moment but airlink chief executives are only as good as the last profit/loss result.
reading prune for a long time now. thought i might jump in and stir the pot a bit. absolutely a personal perspective.
also heard rumours of 4 new 717's.
thoughts of probable short term future (discounting another entrant) go like this.
146's will be phased out as leases expire. too old and unreliable though have done a sterling job and undoubtably contributed to QF's dispatch of an.
probable closure of 146 east coast bases as lease's expire (RK today, MK jan, BN end 2003 ? CB see earlier post this topic)
introduction of new regional jets will see end of 717's in OZ (not definite but view it from an accountant's perspective)
lowest bidder for regional QF operation will see even lower terms and conditions for the jungle jet drivers (what will your family's lifestyle be on 90k?)
njs or impulse will match terms to stay in the job and impulse keeps east coast, njs to west and top end.
suits qf to keep 2 companies running against each other to drive costs to absolute minimums. great for the shareholders. unfortunately the accountants seem to have forgotten about the safety aspect of flight operations.
Ansett kept us all honest and in a job. Now with traditional early decade downturn the boot is on managements collective feet and NO ONE is invulnerable.
PREDICTION-once regional bottom line is determined mainline drivers are next to be targeted.
SOLUTION-as professionals we will remain easy game until we achieve viable and united representation.
Don't count on those big stubbies yet Douglas, 146 is still cost effective for the accountants and still enjoys excellent public appeal. 4 still outguns 2 in my experience.
As for the future of the 146 crew's, I can't see an offer of integration into any existing QF structure (case in point the execution of Southerns), but I can see an addition to the expanding pool of excellent highly qualified and experienced drivers for any third airline start up.
Impulse may have the ear of the big bosses in QF at the moment but airlink chief executives are only as good as the last profit/loss result.
Last edited by toojaded; 26th Oct 2002 at 16:38.
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Was lucky enough to get up close and personal with the Embraer 170 after it did Farnborough.
As for pax appeal, it has bucket loads. The rest of it's not bad either. Should be a very successful aeroplane.
----
Shaker One
As for pax appeal, it has bucket loads. The rest of it's not bad either. Should be a very successful aeroplane.
----
Shaker One
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I flew on a 717 the other day........good flight and a nice aircraft.
A question to those that fly it, what range (nil wind) would the 717 have with a full load of pax and say about 3 tons of freight?
Are the 717s that Qantaslink have HGW aircraft?
Thanks.
A question to those that fly it, what range (nil wind) would the 717 have with a full load of pax and say about 3 tons of freight?
Are the 717s that Qantaslink have HGW aircraft?
Thanks.
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Perhaps, toojaded, but you can't compare apples and oranges. Regional Jets, no matter how cost effective cannot completely replace 717s, just like 717s cannot completely replace 146s.
717s seat 115-117.
146s seat up to 84 or so.
RJs of any variety seat no more than about 60-70 (up to 80?).
An accountant looking at replacing 717s with regional jets on a one for one basis would lose anywhere between 35 and 50 seats per flight and in the language of any financial practitioner, this makes no sense.
A more likely outcome is the ultimate retirement of the 146 fleet, a gradual increase in 717 numbers up to a critical mass of perhaps 20-30 (maybe more, you never know
) and the introduction of a fleet of regional jets for routes which would justify them. Dash-8s remain largely unaffected, perhaps with a small increase in fleet size.
Bear in mind too that a 717 is not too much smaller than a 733.
My personal opinion, for what it is worth.
Allegedly.
717s seat 115-117.
146s seat up to 84 or so.
RJs of any variety seat no more than about 60-70 (up to 80?).
An accountant looking at replacing 717s with regional jets on a one for one basis would lose anywhere between 35 and 50 seats per flight and in the language of any financial practitioner, this makes no sense.
A more likely outcome is the ultimate retirement of the 146 fleet, a gradual increase in 717 numbers up to a critical mass of perhaps 20-30 (maybe more, you never know
) and the introduction of a fleet of regional jets for routes which would justify them. Dash-8s remain largely unaffected, perhaps with a small increase in fleet size.Bear in mind too that a 717 is not too much smaller than a 733.
My personal opinion, for what it is worth.
Allegedly.
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MoFo
The Embraer 170/175/190/195 family, fondly refered to as The Jungle Jet is designed for 70 to 110 pax. At the high end similar to a 717 but much lighter!
The 146s as configured by NJS carry 64/76/87 at 2+3 seating plus a few business seats. I think European operators of the 146 get up to 115 into a 146-300/RJ100 using 3+3 seating.
I think the 717 is too heavy and large to be considered the RJ replacement.
The 146s as configured by NJS carry 64/76/87 at 2+3 seating plus a few business seats. I think European operators of the 146 get up to 115 into a 146-300/RJ100 using 3+3 seating.
I think the 717 is too heavy and large to be considered the RJ replacement.
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If the 2-4 717s are to be in operation by first quarter next year, then that only leaves 150 days at the most from now until they have to be carrying passengers. I know the 73Hs took less than 100 days, but the 717s are new build, and then I think that given there has yet to be an announcement reagarding an order, that they won't be operational until after the first quarter 2003.
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All the senior Impulse pilots have spoken to say no more 717's in the near future. Qantas have plans to relocate the current 717's onto new routes with the current 717's replaced by 737's ie SY - MC will once again return to 737's.
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FL CH,
This rumor of 737s taking over the 717 routes, do you have any idea from when this will happen, and any idea of more routes (other than SY-MC) specifically? With the all economy 767s also doing holiday routes soon, then there seems to be a lot of holiday capacity, with the 767s, these rumored 737s (are they -800s or classics?) as well as the 717s!
This rumor of 737s taking over the 717 routes, do you have any idea from when this will happen, and any idea of more routes (other than SY-MC) specifically? With the all economy 767s also doing holiday routes soon, then there seems to be a lot of holiday capacity, with the 767s, these rumored 737s (are they -800s or classics?) as well as the 717s!
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While we are on the subject of rumors. I heard that the Impulse Ginger Beers are taking over some of the QF737- 300 turn around shortly. And said Ginger Beers expect Impulse Tech and Cabin crews to be next on these aircraft.
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This rumour of Impulse 737s is an interesting one. Up until a couple of weeks ago, Mel-Ool and Syd-Ool schedules showed some flights operated by 737s, but claimed to be operated by Impulse Airlines. This has since been fixed up, but maybe it is an indication that it will happen eventually???
This rumour would fit in with the other rumour about 737s taking over the current 717 routes, and the 717s going on to new routes.
This rumour would fit in with the other rumour about 737s taking over the current 717 routes, and the 717s going on to new routes.