View Poll Results: How will you vote for the rehashed EBA
Yes
6
13.33%
No
39
86.67%
Voters: 45. This poll is closed
New Virgin Blue EBA Poll
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New Virgin Blue EBA Poll
VB management and the AFAP have withdrawn the proposed EBA document before the official vote was completed and counted.
They intend to reword the document to tidy up some of the areas which were causing dissatisfaction amongst the pilots.
Remuneration and lifestyle issues are unlikely to significantly change, if at all, from the initial document.
Will you vote Yes or No for the rehashed EBA document under these circumstances.
They intend to reword the document to tidy up some of the areas which were causing dissatisfaction amongst the pilots.
Remuneration and lifestyle issues are unlikely to significantly change, if at all, from the initial document.
Will you vote Yes or No for the rehashed EBA document under these circumstances.
Last edited by Interceptor; 17th Sep 2002 at 13:23.
Nunc est bibendum
Can I suggest a re-word of the question. The answer for someone in VB will be 'yes' they will vote 'yes or no' in the EBA.
A better way of asking would have been How will you vote in the upcoming EBA. 'Yes' or 'No' or 'For' or 'Against' or something like that.
Sorry if it appears I'm being picky. Been proof reading a couple of other documents tonight!
A better way of asking would have been How will you vote in the upcoming EBA. 'Yes' or 'No' or 'For' or 'Against' or something like that.
Sorry if it appears I'm being picky. Been proof reading a couple of other documents tonight!
Everyone in Virgin would like the pay rise along with a better life style but the ones at the top are not seeing the big picture. A good majority of us don’t want the CAO 48 Exemption. Full Stop. 
Whispering "T" Jet
Industry Standard?
With Virgin Blue and National Jet Systems EBA negotiations breaking down over pay, who would like to hazard a guess at the acceptable "industry standard" salary these days for RPT, jet transport pilots ?
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Excuse me if I'm wrong guys but when you sign up for a no-frills airline doesn't that include no-frills pay as far as Rick Branson is concerned??
I remember at the start-up of VB guys were talking of foregoing pay for the lifestyle that Brisbane had to offer and the chance to get back to Oz for some others.
I believe that you guys are woefully underpaid and deserve more for the numerous days you work and VB's inability to roster you all more effectively, but then again I dont pay the wages or organise such things.
I remember years ago when a very senior member of VB management in the Flt Dept was very vocal in the late eighties about a proposed pay-rise.
I wonder whether this person is still a card-carrying member of the AFAP and how has his reaction been to this EBA?
Which gets me wondering.
Imagine its 1989 and the incumbent TAA and Ansett have been told that deregulation is just around the corner.
The AFAP hears that a British Millionare is going to start an airline, pay pilots some 30-40% less than the acceptable AFAP approved current award rate.
How would the current VB Flight Dept and others who were around then have reacted to that thought in 1989?????????????????????
Sort of makes you seriously wonder.
Lets face it, times will be tougher in the future.
Richard Branson doesnt want to give an effective pay rise and if you guys want to fight Chris Corrigan then remember how he effectively played a major part in the waterfront reform and his blatant use of non-union $cab labour.
They know they dont have to give a worthy pay-rise and these guys will fight tooth and nail to prevent doing so.
So much for treating loyal staff and paying them what they're worth and/or listening to them when it comes to an EBA hearing and vote.
I remember at the start-up of VB guys were talking of foregoing pay for the lifestyle that Brisbane had to offer and the chance to get back to Oz for some others.
I believe that you guys are woefully underpaid and deserve more for the numerous days you work and VB's inability to roster you all more effectively, but then again I dont pay the wages or organise such things.
I remember years ago when a very senior member of VB management in the Flt Dept was very vocal in the late eighties about a proposed pay-rise.
I wonder whether this person is still a card-carrying member of the AFAP and how has his reaction been to this EBA?
Which gets me wondering.
Imagine its 1989 and the incumbent TAA and Ansett have been told that deregulation is just around the corner.
The AFAP hears that a British Millionare is going to start an airline, pay pilots some 30-40% less than the acceptable AFAP approved current award rate.
How would the current VB Flight Dept and others who were around then have reacted to that thought in 1989?????????????????????
Sort of makes you seriously wonder.
Lets face it, times will be tougher in the future.
Richard Branson doesnt want to give an effective pay rise and if you guys want to fight Chris Corrigan then remember how he effectively played a major part in the waterfront reform and his blatant use of non-union $cab labour.
They know they dont have to give a worthy pay-rise and these guys will fight tooth and nail to prevent doing so.
So much for treating loyal staff and paying them what they're worth and/or listening to them when it comes to an EBA hearing and vote.
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Dicky is renowned the world over for being a " frugle " employer ,( you could stick a piece of coal up his backside and a diamond would pop out ).
What made the Oz VB guys and gals think they would be treated any different to the rest of the Virgin group ??
What made the Oz VB guys and gals think they would be treated any different to the rest of the Virgin group ??
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Hate to say it but you blokes are getting $crewed. All I can say is good luck for the sake of pay/conditions in whats left of the Australian airline industry.
Its nice to fly aeroplanes, but if the pay dosn't make up for the conditions, is it really worth it?
Its nice to fly aeroplanes, but if the pay dosn't make up for the conditions, is it really worth it?
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Yeah right.
Paying the VB guys a pittance isn't really any concession for having very nubile wenches, large-breasted blonde girlies and Sir Dick turn up every year at the Christmas party trying to be cool (with his pink open necked shirt without a tie and the sleeves rolled up).
These people have families to support and I am sure they'll take the pay rise and forego the eye-candy or the silly pommy twit at the Xmas festivities.
Paying the VB guys a pittance isn't really any concession for having very nubile wenches, large-breasted blonde girlies and Sir Dick turn up every year at the Christmas party trying to be cool (with his pink open necked shirt without a tie and the sleeves rolled up).
These people have families to support and I am sure they'll take the pay rise and forego the eye-candy or the silly pommy twit at the Xmas festivities.
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747-400 F/O
You are missing the big picture.
VB started over 2 years ago against the odds of succeeding as a 4th player in the Australian market. Most of those who joined were prepared to forgo higher salaries in an effort to help the airline get started and to succeed.
It was always understood and stated by management/AFAP (even though management denies it now) that it was a startup package to be reviewed and adjusted upwards towards industry standard at the next EBA if the airline was performing well.
That time has come now and the Virgin Blue of today is a very different (and profitable) airline compared to the fledgling startup that it was.
There is nothing wrong in the fact that the VB pilots accepted lower salaries to start. And equally there is nothing wrong that they are now striving to have conditions improved. It is their right to do so.
An Enterprise Bargaining Agreement is the vehicle to allow this right.
I assume that you have the right to vote on EBA's in your company, then if that is the case, the Virgin pilots also have a right to vote on their EBA, and preferably without your non constructive comments.
You are missing the big picture.
VB started over 2 years ago against the odds of succeeding as a 4th player in the Australian market. Most of those who joined were prepared to forgo higher salaries in an effort to help the airline get started and to succeed.
It was always understood and stated by management/AFAP (even though management denies it now) that it was a startup package to be reviewed and adjusted upwards towards industry standard at the next EBA if the airline was performing well.
That time has come now and the Virgin Blue of today is a very different (and profitable) airline compared to the fledgling startup that it was.
There is nothing wrong in the fact that the VB pilots accepted lower salaries to start. And equally there is nothing wrong that they are now striving to have conditions improved. It is their right to do so.
An Enterprise Bargaining Agreement is the vehicle to allow this right.
I assume that you have the right to vote on EBA's in your company, then if that is the case, the Virgin pilots also have a right to vote on their EBA, and preferably without your non constructive comments.
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And VB don't have to pay payroll tax, they get taxpayer subsidies, ship $250 million Aussie dollars off shore and it's partialy owned by a BILLIONAIRE and yet the management pr1cks still whinge they are hard done by! What happened to a level playing field. Qantas get none of these breaks but pay wages relative to the job. Not only that, Qantas HAVE to hire equipment out to Virgin if they need it. I htink it's about time a stopwork was calledby you Virgin blokes.
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Interceptor, are you kidding!! You really must be a stupid guy to think that when you join a low cost airline with poor pay, that anyone would ever increase this.
I stated a simple fact, that accepting this lower pay in the first spot has put the DJ people were they are today. Lets call a spade a spade, yes a lot of experienced guys came back to australia for lifestyle, but we all know that the LARGE majority of other drivers at DJ are guys who could never get into a real airline with proper pay for whatever reason, and basically grabbed any rope from Virgin to fly a 737.
It may be politically incorrect what I am saying, but I believe what I say has merit.
I stated a simple fact, that accepting this lower pay in the first spot has put the DJ people were they are today. Lets call a spade a spade, yes a lot of experienced guys came back to australia for lifestyle, but we all know that the LARGE majority of other drivers at DJ are guys who could never get into a real airline with proper pay for whatever reason, and basically grabbed any rope from Virgin to fly a 737.
It may be politically incorrect what I am saying, but I believe what I say has merit.
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LIQUID_GOLD - yes they do indeed sell men's sunnies at the point of purchase mate, but they aint nearly as cool as my chicky-babe pair.
By the way Liquid old pal, is it true you are combining your blessed virtues of laying cable and green keeping in your limited spare time??????
But as we discussed in the extremely remote chance that Virgin Blue were to submit a workable EBA then you may wish to use the new-found funds to purchase a pair like my devil-may-care cool as choice-bro biodegradable, bullet-proof chick-magnet sunnies with the inbuilt volume control that p!ss off the elder gentry of the uncool variety!
Gotta love em - but the grumpy old farts at work still give me evil stares!!
By the way Liquid old pal, is it true you are combining your blessed virtues of laying cable and green keeping in your limited spare time??????
But as we discussed in the extremely remote chance that Virgin Blue were to submit a workable EBA then you may wish to use the new-found funds to purchase a pair like my devil-may-care cool as choice-bro biodegradable, bullet-proof chick-magnet sunnies with the inbuilt volume control that p!ss off the elder gentry of the uncool variety!
Gotta love em - but the grumpy old farts at work still give me evil stares!!
Last edited by TIMMEEEE; 22nd Sep 2002 at 01:02.
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Woomera,
As I refuse to have a discussion with Mr 747- 400 F/O, could you please do something about him and his posts which are insulting and degrading to the many fine aviators that Virgin Blue has employed as well as other professional pilots around the world.
His remarks such as
"the LARGE majority of other drivers at DJ are guys who could never get into a real airline with proper pay for whatever reason"
shows the immaturity and venom of this individual.
He implies that Virgin Blue is not a real airline as it is based on a low cost model. Therefore Easyjet, Ryanair, West Jet, Southwest Airlines and many other successful low cost airlines and their pilots must also be rope grabbers without the appropriate skills to join a real airline.
He also implies that anyone such as turboprop pilots in smaller airlines must also be second rate as they have not joined the big kangaroo.
This person is an embarassment to all aviators on this international forum and belongs in the sin bin along with his posts which are designed to grab a reaction for his own perverted pleasure.
One really has to wonder what he does in the bunk on those long haul flights !!
As I refuse to have a discussion with Mr 747- 400 F/O, could you please do something about him and his posts which are insulting and degrading to the many fine aviators that Virgin Blue has employed as well as other professional pilots around the world.
His remarks such as
"the LARGE majority of other drivers at DJ are guys who could never get into a real airline with proper pay for whatever reason"
shows the immaturity and venom of this individual.
He implies that Virgin Blue is not a real airline as it is based on a low cost model. Therefore Easyjet, Ryanair, West Jet, Southwest Airlines and many other successful low cost airlines and their pilots must also be rope grabbers without the appropriate skills to join a real airline.
He also implies that anyone such as turboprop pilots in smaller airlines must also be second rate as they have not joined the big kangaroo.
This person is an embarassment to all aviators on this international forum and belongs in the sin bin along with his posts which are designed to grab a reaction for his own perverted pleasure.
One really has to wonder what he does in the bunk on those long haul flights !!
Last edited by Interceptor; 22nd Sep 2002 at 05:17.
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Interceptor
Our friend B747-400 F/O can spend some time in the bin until he learns some respect for other PPRuNers who are actually professional aviators and that VB whether he likes it or not IS a REAL airline holding exactly the same standard of issue of HCAOC as do QF and others.
The last I looked there was only one level, unless QFs is secretly marked as a 1st Class one and VB as 2nd Class.
B747-400 F/O
You must be a joy to work with and certainly do nothing to enhance the professional reputation of your colleagues.
And no I don't work for or have anything to do with VB.
Our friend B747-400 F/O can spend some time in the bin until he learns some respect for other PPRuNers who are actually professional aviators and that VB whether he likes it or not IS a REAL airline holding exactly the same standard of issue of HCAOC as do QF and others.
The last I looked there was only one level, unless QFs is secretly marked as a 1st Class one and VB as 2nd Class.
B747-400 F/O
You must be a joy to work with and certainly do nothing to enhance the professional reputation of your colleagues.
And no I don't work for or have anything to do with VB.