QF domestic "B" scale ???
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QF domestic "B" scale ???
A few years ago ,QF Long Haul F/Os accepted B Scale wages as a means of infiltrating the short haul 737 operation.
I think you will find that in fact the B scale was voted in by the existing domestic pilots i.e. ex Australian Airlines pilots. The long haulers flying domestic had little to do with it as they were far outnumbered by ex Australian Airlines pilots.
Incidentally, all the FO who were on the 737 at the time from long haul were mightily pissed off then and still are now, as it was a classic B scale i.e. 2 lads doing the same job but on different rates of pay. Of course that has almost come to an end I believe as all the ex Australian FO's have just about got commands (I know of only 1 that hasn't but there may be more)........but the reduced rate of pay still exists for FO's.
Of course it is nothing like the crap they pay at DJ........(toe gingerley touches water)
Last edited by Sir Shiraz; 12th Sep 2002 at 17:43.
Sir Shiraz,
Reinforcing my point.
QF S/Os accepting B SCALE not dissimilar,in principle,to a young pilot accepting a VB contract.
It was on the table regardless of the machinations that brought it there.
QF B SCALE was at least 20% less than an Ansett F/O.VB F/O about 30% less than QF F/O.
QF started the slide,the high and almighty attitude of 747-400 F/O offensive and ignorant considering history.
Apologies if my previous post caused the padlocking.
Reinforcing my point.
QF S/Os accepting B SCALE not dissimilar,in principle,to a young pilot accepting a VB contract.
It was on the table regardless of the machinations that brought it there.
QF B SCALE was at least 20% less than an Ansett F/O.VB F/O about 30% less than QF F/O.
QF started the slide,the high and almighty attitude of 747-400 F/O offensive and ignorant considering history.
Apologies if my previous post caused the padlocking.
G'burg,
I think that you missed the point - The QF S/O's transferring to be Short Haul F/O's did not accept "B" Scale, they had it thrust on them after an EBA vote by disgruntled "Australian Airlines" pilots who were still P1SSED 0FF with being absorbed into Qantas. It is still a very sore point that is taking considerable AIPA resources in an effort to correct this anomaly.
I think that you missed the point - The QF S/O's transferring to be Short Haul F/O's did not accept "B" Scale, they had it thrust on them after an EBA vote by disgruntled "Australian Airlines" pilots who were still P1SSED 0FF with being absorbed into Qantas. It is still a very sore point that is taking considerable AIPA resources in an effort to correct this anomaly.
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It was in a short haul EBA where the ex Ausralian Airlines pilots voted themselves a pay rise on the back of an introduction of a B scale for new pilots transferring (long haul S/Os becoming 737 F/Os). A bit of "I'm alright Jack, it won't effect me!" Charming!
Last edited by Sopwith Pup; 14th Sep 2002 at 02:44.
Whatever the machinations a bit cheap of some at QF to level an attack on VB pilots when you have an active B SCALE.
AN F/Os on A320/767/737 paid about 20% more than their B SCALE colleaugues at QF.
The disparity now similar between QF/VB F/Os.The slide continues but with whom did it start?
B SCALE QF Domestic.
And I would love to believe it as simple as greedy domestic pilots with no fault at all of the long haulers.
AN F/Os on A320/767/737 paid about 20% more than their B SCALE colleaugues at QF.
The disparity now similar between QF/VB F/Os.The slide continues but with whom did it start?
B SCALE QF Domestic.
And I would love to believe it as simple as greedy domestic pilots with no fault at all of the long haulers.
Nunc est bibendum
You know, you're absolutely correct Gnadenburg. How silly of me to not have realised earlier that QF F/Os on the 737 on about $130K a year are responsible for VB F/Os on about half that.
Stupid me!
Stupid me!
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Gnadenburg
Long haul had NOTHING to do with the introduction of the B scale, short haul voted on it during their EBA a few years ago. I'm not sure but I don't think AIPA had a say as it may have been just before the time short haul were about to join the union.
Long haul had NOTHING to do with the introduction of the B scale, short haul voted on it during their EBA a few years ago. I'm not sure but I don't think AIPA had a say as it may have been just before the time short haul were about to join the union.
Last edited by Sopwith Pup; 14th Sep 2002 at 06:34.
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Not only did the shorthaulers vote it in intially BUT they could've voted it out quite recently (last 12 months) as that was a clause in the EBA.
Some thought it might go, but the greed of the ex AA pilots was sorely underestimated.
Guess what? Now some of these guys are going to the A330 which has a good agreement set up by AIPA. Great guys eh?
Some thought it might go, but the greed of the ex AA pilots was sorely underestimated.
Guess what? Now some of these guys are going to the A330 which has a good agreement set up by AIPA. Great guys eh?
The timing of that sleazy EBA which brought in the Qandom "B" scale was the week before AIPA got coverage. A real screw you deal that one. An insider tells me that it was done because of fears that a senior (years of service) S/O from long haul might make more money than some of the short haulers already there.
Pretty naive really expecting them to vote the "B" scale out if it was going to cost them.
Pretty naive really expecting them to vote the "B" scale out if it was going to cost them.
That EBA was negotiated by the Short Haul Pilots Council and AIPA was not allowed to have any input into the EBA (although they did have "observer" status at some meetings). AIPA did privately advise the SHPC about the ramifications of the proposed "B" scale but the anger that the AA pilots had against QF pilots was so intense that this advice was ignored and they took the pay rise at the expense of the future F/O's that they were to fly with. Qantas management just watched this ludicrous situation and laughed all the way to the bank. As mentioned previously, they had the opportunity 2-3 years ago to redress this situation but as they had to give up a small percentage of their pay, they voted against it. These B737 captains are of course paid more than B767 captains.
G'burg - I agree with Keg. I see no connection between this situation and the DJ pay scales.
G'burg - I agree with Keg. I see no connection between this situation and the DJ pay scales.
Keg & Boeing
One of yours stated on a previous thread that VB pilots undermining the industry.
Probably true as the disparity in wages is huge!
I pointed out that QF had an active B SCALE that put some pressure on an Ansett EBA for pilots some years ago.
So technically the slide in domestic conditions began with QF.
A timeline: QF B SCALE, Impulse lower wages then VB`s even lower wages.
The machinations irrelevant.
Pointing out, to a very arrogant QF longhauler, that the slide in domestic 737 type conditions began well before the arrival of Virgin Blue.
Hope you all get a payrise.
One of yours stated on a previous thread that VB pilots undermining the industry.
Probably true as the disparity in wages is huge!
I pointed out that QF had an active B SCALE that put some pressure on an Ansett EBA for pilots some years ago.
So technically the slide in domestic conditions began with QF.
A timeline: QF B SCALE, Impulse lower wages then VB`s even lower wages.
The machinations irrelevant.
Pointing out, to a very arrogant QF longhauler, that the slide in domestic 737 type conditions began well before the arrival of Virgin Blue.
Hope you all get a payrise.
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Well maybe in EBA 6 (Long Haul) we can vote for a 10% pay increase to Long Haul drivers if Short haul coming across got to a B scale.
Gnadenburg.. I have to agree with keg and Boeing, QF B scale has nothing to do with B scale QF Sort haul.
Ps Why are QF 737 drivers so pissed off with QF Long haul (especially 767) at the moment?? You have most of the slots on the A330, continued promotion with the 73NG, any shiny new aeroplanes to fly...but you are still pissed of with us. Why??
Gnadenburg.. I have to agree with keg and Boeing, QF B scale has nothing to do with B scale QF Sort haul.
Ps Why are QF 737 drivers so pissed off with QF Long haul (especially 767) at the moment?? You have most of the slots on the A330, continued promotion with the 73NG, any shiny new aeroplanes to fly...but you are still pissed of with us. Why??
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Invertedlandings
I think that Going Boeing was refering to a few years ago. Today from this side of the fence they seem in general to be quite happy for all the reasons you gave.
I think that Going Boeing was refering to a few years ago. Today from this side of the fence they seem in general to be quite happy for all the reasons you gave.
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Hey Sopwith,
Have you been in the Melbourne Domestic Crewing lately? or SYD for that matter.... it is not much fun to be there form a 767 point of view. Their distaste for us, Long Haul in general and AIPA is fairly interesting, to say the least.
Mr Gnadenburg,
How can B Scale be seroiusly related to Impulse/ VB pay?? From my understanding, B scale F/o's on the 73 QF are paid as much as Captains on Impulse/ VB, let alone what F/o's are paid- how can you justify the comparison? As Keg said, ther is none.
Have you been in the Melbourne Domestic Crewing lately? or SYD for that matter.... it is not much fun to be there form a 767 point of view. Their distaste for us, Long Haul in general and AIPA is fairly interesting, to say the least.
Mr Gnadenburg,
How can B Scale be seroiusly related to Impulse/ VB pay?? From my understanding, B scale F/o's on the 73 QF are paid as much as Captains on Impulse/ VB, let alone what F/o's are paid- how can you justify the comparison? As Keg said, ther is none.
