REX AIRLINES Trading Halt
Joined: Oct 2007
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From: Aus
Aviation fuels also have excise, as well as en route taxes, landing fees for just about every airport, and parking fees, as well as the general taxation on mostly profitable operations. Aviation mostly pays for itself.
As said above the major airports are run at a profit, country airports are run by councils on shoestring budgets. If the government funded better infrastructure for aviation to the sane level they fund other transport we would have 10 times the air traffic. Regional airlines are collapsing around the word because no one is subsidising the cost anymore. Almost all the 20 to 50 seat airliner projects were helped along by a particular government funding it. Yes there are particular route subsidies, but for some reason the world expects an industry that constructs 3000 planes will somehow fund itself billions in R&D costs, when it learned that car companies which move 100s of thousands of vehicles need subsidies to exist.
PS, the coach can run on biodiesle so no excise when it does and I could buy an electric car and pay no fuel excise, especially when charging it off my subsidised solar... so yes I can run my vehicles on the road paying for it only through measly rego and taxes Ive already paid for, and most of that tax will be returned to me through pension and the vast amounts Ive cost medicare already.
Something to ponder, Hong Kong (China) based MTR operates the Melbourne Metro is subsidised around $1 billion annually by the taxpayer, just to operate, they in turn run at a profit only due to those subsidies, so quite a few million dollars goes to a foreign company to operate trains that carry 100 million passengers annually.
Last edited by 43Inches; 21st August 2024 at 20:13.
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 232
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From: Australia
Holy thread drift, Batman!!
So if I was to run a Saab on biodiesel, would I be paying road excise if all the pilots applied to Jetstar, Lifeflight, Qantas, Virgin, Atlas, MinRes and anyone else that was hiring? And the second part of that question, is how is it everyone else’s fault?
So if I was to run a Saab on biodiesel, would I be paying road excise if all the pilots applied to Jetstar, Lifeflight, Qantas, Virgin, Atlas, MinRes and anyone else that was hiring? And the second part of that question, is how is it everyone else’s fault?
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,628
Likes: 1,183
From: Aus
Holy thread drift, Batman!!
So if I was to run a Saab on biodiesel, would I be paying road excise if all the pilots applied to Jetstar, Lifeflight, Qantas, Virgin, Atlas, MinRes and anyone else that was hiring? And the second part of that question, is how is it everyone else’s fault?
So if I was to run a Saab on biodiesel, would I be paying road excise if all the pilots applied to Jetstar, Lifeflight, Qantas, Virgin, Atlas, MinRes and anyone else that was hiring? And the second part of that question, is how is it everyone else’s fault?
So why get all heated if a Regional like Rex gets a few million to survive. I actually think most of Rexs network can operate without the need for subsidies, so it is not needed. However if you are going to argue against subsidising air routes for smaller communities you need to be aware how much subsidies already prop up links and services outside of aviation to these places especially. And considering the growth of country areas that have proper supply and transport links these subsidies are invaluble.
Reliable, consistant and frequent air links to a town also save millions on other subsidies, like incentive schemes for professionals like doctors to live in these areas and provide transport for locals to access services in other towns that would cost millions in subsidies to set up in each instance. Not to mention pollies can use the airline to travel rather than private jets at taxpayer expense. Also you get many moving to the country and commuting to the city, spreading population out, taking pressure off city infrastructure. So the airlink subsidies pay for themselves. I've seen many country towns that the regional carriers fly many more passengers than the demographic map suggests it can support for the above reasons, however the air services need to be well established and reliable so that users can trust to make significant future and repeat bookings.
Last edited by 43Inches; 21st August 2024 at 22:31.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,628
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From: Aus
I thought about a driving holiday to Fiji once, but too much hassel, easier to fly.
After the suburban rail loop fiasco in Melbourne I reckon you could get a poli to build a bridge to Tasmania at some point...
$20-$30 billion to build a train from Franga to Dandy, which will mainly be used by fare evading addicts to have more access to a dealer of choice vs $300 million to bail out a regional airline, I know where I'd rather waste the money. With the caveat of a new board formed of those actually focused on regional services.
Joined: Oct 2007
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From: Aus
So for an example, in my semi I put 5000 litres last month, I can claim back 21 cpl excise in my BAS, which is just over $1000.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2015
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From: CNS
Because Rex is run by morally bankrupt thugs who use threats and intimidation against governments, councils, suppliers to get their own way. If the demand exists which I’m sure it does, someone else will step in to fill the void, as has occurred time and time again in the past.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,628
Likes: 1,183
From: Aus
Because Rex is run by morally bankrupt thugs who use threats and intimidation against governments, councils, suppliers to get their own way. If the demand exists which I’m sure it does, someone else will step in to fill the void, as has occurred time and time again in the past.
As far as another ooerator filling the void, if this even happens they will just cherry pick the profitable routes at much higher prices, so the country loses more than continuing Rex services. Rex was a standout in how it could use its size to make regional fares somewhat affordable. Considering the lack of suitable airliners and the exponential cost increases of small fleets it's unlikely another Rex type operator will come along without significant government incentive. Its important to remember that Rex was able to operate the SAAB 340 at about half the cost of a small 340 fleet operator due to its scale and self sufficiency, even to the point they were cheaper to run than 20 seaters like the 1900.
By the way 100 million people use the Metro each year, yet we still subsidise it to the tune of $1 billion. Demand is created by pressence, the country towns losing these services just go back to driving and the businesses that rely on the extra flow of whatever came with the airlink close down.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 261
Likes: 83
From: Australia
After considering the posts regarding highways, railways, byways, airways, terminals, networks, subsidies, costs, profits, cross subsidies, taxes, excises, various exemptions, demographics, bail ins, bail outs, the taxpayer, tax evaders, fare evaders, socio economics boundaries, regional vs metropolitan areas, redistribution of population, places of work, access to services, climate change, energy, environment, politics, corporate structure/governance, infrastructure, multiple authorities, state and federal regulations ... to name a few and also thinking about sea lanes, rivers, harbours, ports, economic zones, engineering, technology, freedom of navigation. I think the solution is to nationalise all domestic transport services into one National Public Transport System (There2There). Free for everyone. Overhaul the whole system and place it under one administration. In ten years you could produce the cheapest, most efficient, most effective, environmentally friendly, public transport system on the planet.
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 183
Likes: 82
From: Anvya
After considering the posts regarding highways, railways, byways, airways, terminals, networks, subsidies, costs, profits, cross subsidies, taxes, excises, various exemptions, demographics, bail ins, bail outs, the taxpayer, tax evaders, fare evaders, socio economics boundaries, regional vs metropolitan areas, redistribution of population, places of work, access to services, climate change, energy, environment, politics, corporate structure/governance, infrastructure, multiple authorities, state and federal regulations ... to name a few and also thinking about sea lanes, rivers, harbours, ports, economic zones, engineering, technology, freedom of navigation. I think the solution is to nationalise all domestic transport services into one National Public Transport System (There2There). Free for everyone. Overhaul the whole system and place it under one administration. In ten years you could produce the cheapest, most efficient, most effective, environmentally friendly, public transport system on the planet.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 261
Likes: 83
From: Australia
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 479
Likes: 40
From: Australia
Heavy vehicle operators, farmers and some other commercial entities can claim back excise depending on use, some to the point they dont pay it, so I would say millions of litres of diesel and petrol are used free of excise probably each month, if not weekly. So going back to the $18 billion of excise collected, a lot of it is returned via BAS lodgements.
So for an example, in my semi I put 5000 litres last month, I can claim back 21 cpl excise in my BAS, which is just over $1000.
So for an example, in my semi I put 5000 litres last month, I can claim back 21 cpl excise in my BAS, which is just over $1000.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,628
Likes: 1,183
From: Aus
If I claimed 5000 litres of diesel for agriculture/mining/fishing/construction or landscaping ie off road stuff then it climbs to 50.6 cpl, or about $2500.
Nothing powered by Aviation fuels is covered, and you can't claim gaseous fuels such as LNG/CNG or LPG for heavy vehicles.
That's using the simplified calculator for claims of less than $10000 per year. Obviously large businesses have to keep books on whats on or off public roads for what use and so on and would calculate actual burn per km for an actual vehicle or fleet.
After considering the posts regarding highways, railways, byways, airways, terminals, networks, subsidies, costs, profits, cross subsidies, taxes, excises, various exemptions, demographics, bail ins, bail outs, the taxpayer, tax evaders, fare evaders, socio economics boundaries, regional vs metropolitan areas, redistribution of population, places of work, access to services, climate change, energy, environment, politics, corporate structure/governance, infrastructure, multiple authorities, state and federal regulations ... to name a few and also thinking about sea lanes, rivers, harbours, ports, economic zones, engineering, technology, freedom of navigation. I think the solution is to nationalise all domestic transport services into one National Public Transport System (There2There). Free for everyone. Overhaul the whole system and place it under one administration. In ten years you could produce the cheapest, most efficient, most effective, environmentally friendly, public transport system on the planet.
Last edited by 43Inches; 22nd August 2024 at 03:36.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 196
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From: Above the Trenches
Sorry to correct you 43 but Deutsche Bahn is about the the worst example of a German institution gone bad. A quick google will show you how bad things have become. The problem started when they decided to partially privatize it. It has become so unreliable the German Government is debating whether to step in. I was left on snowy platforms several times over last winter for all sorts of reasons including lack of crew, breakdowns, unscheduled track work, failure of signalling and rolling strikes. You know things are bad when the locals start to get upset. They have become a laughing stock. Should also mention that the other rail networks in Europe left them for dead.Sorry for the thread drift.