Network EBA
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 324
Likes: 547
From: Melbourne, Australia
Go ask those network pilots moving across when they first put their applications in.
Then throw in that from the moment you join a subsidiary like NAA there is an 18 month window before you can either apply or interview. (Someone else can clarify this).
Internals get held. Especially captains or check and trainers. Anyone who is in short supply will get trickled out.
Externals from Rex, VA etc have jumped hundreds of internals. I’ve seen one person leave Q Group and go elsewhere, and then reapply for QF and jumped all their internal former work colleagues by as much as two years for a QF start.
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 619
Likes: 687
From: Australia
You can join NAA, get two year’s experience to become competitive, get on the hold and wait another five years - total seven years.
Or you can go to Rex, do two years on the SAAB, get on the external hold, and start a month later.
I 100% stand by my comment. If you want to get into mainline, joining a subsidiary is a really crap and slow way to go about it.
Oh and if you get on the internal hold while at NAA/Link/NJS and decide to resign to speed things up, your hold file spot gets binned and you have to start the entire process again with no guarantees. It’s a gamble most aren’t willing to take, and it allows the group to trap people into subsidiaries.
Of course, that whole equation changes (for pilots and for Qantas attracting and retaining pilots) if they pay subsidiaries better rather than treating them like third class citizens. Suddenly people might see value in joining a subsidiary.
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 41
Likes: 20
From: Here & There
Freedom and control over your career. It has always been the case forever. You can't tell me that if Network get really tight for pilots to the point of flight cancellations and you have a Mainline start date that you will be on that course. Now do you think that will do that to a Virgin, REX, GA or International applicant?
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,259
Likes: 1,169
From: Kichin
Nothing like being wrong to get someone to stfu.
At least one of the Links has one individual with his hands on the ‘who goes to mainline’ lever, and due to a forecast huge increase in pilot number, the lever is firmly in the no position. It hasn’t occurred to them or QF that retention requires something attractive about the job, not continual disappointment. If you ever want to work for mainline, except for a tiny few who have made it through via a subsidiary, don’t work for any of the group airlines.
Keep pushing!
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,383
Likes: 532
From: Somewhere
At least one of the Links has one individual with his hands on the ‘who goes to mainline’ lever, and due to a forecast huge increase in pilot number, the lever is firmly in the no position. It hasn’t occurred to them or QF that retention requires something attractive about the job, not continual disappointment. If you ever want to work for mainline, except for a tiny few who have made it through via a subsidiary, don’t work for any of the group airlines.
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 202
Likes: 246
From: A semi-detached 3x2
Not really. Member feedback is still being sorted then will be given to the company from which they will probably bless us with a position statement. Not sure how this further lengthy delay is affecting the business or staff retention but it’s probably not been favourable.
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 97
Likes: 28
From: Saint Malo France
VARA New EBA Just Approved by FWA
Hi
Vara new EBA (which covers the A320/F100/B737) just signed and approved last week with FWA with substantial boosts in allowances (RDO payments which includes a RDO payments plus minimum of 4 hours productivity rate or the greater of the actual hours flown/productivity hourly rate outside the buffer/productivity hourly rate/Roster Overtime hour rate kicks in and lowered to 57.5 hours for a 4 week roster) and Salary boost with backpay and a Sign-On bonus .
And new agreement negotiations starting again shortly next month
Cheers
Buddy
Vara new EBA (which covers the A320/F100/B737) just signed and approved last week with FWA with substantial boosts in allowances (RDO payments which includes a RDO payments plus minimum of 4 hours productivity rate or the greater of the actual hours flown/productivity hourly rate outside the buffer/productivity hourly rate/Roster Overtime hour rate kicks in and lowered to 57.5 hours for a 4 week roster) and Salary boost with backpay and a Sign-On bonus .
And new agreement negotiations starting again shortly next month
Cheers
Buddy
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 185
Likes: 255
From: Dubbo
Latest FO job advert dropped today.
Requirements are laughable.
Requirements are laughable.
As a First Officer with Network Aviation, you’ll have;
- A minimum of 500 hours total aeronautical experience
- An Australian ATPL (A) or an Australian CPL (A) with passes in all Australian ATPL Theory subjects
- Australian Multi-Engine Aeroplane Instrument Rating with IAP 2D and 3D endorsements
- Multi-crew Cooperation Course (MCC) or experience in a multi-crew operation
- A current CASA Class 1 Medical
- ICAO English Language Proficiency Level 6 on your CASA Licence
- The ability to pass a Qantas pre-employment medical and drug and alcohol test
- The ability to hold an Aviation Security Identification Card (ASIC)
- A current passport with unrestricted access to all Qantas ports of call with at least 12 months validity
- Australian citizenship or the right to work in Australia / New Zealand without restriction or sponsorship
Joined: Dec 2001
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,419
Likes: 853
From: Brisvegas
It would also open the door for ex military pilots, mostly low hours.
Five hundred hours is a great deal more than most FOs start their first jet job with in Europe and UK. Probably SE Asia as well.
Five hundred hours is a great deal more than most FOs start their first jet job with in Europe and UK. Probably SE Asia as well.
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 324
Likes: 547
From: Melbourne, Australia
Imagine how stupid the 43% of yes voters feel now.
You network pilots hold the power and almost half of you are giving in and afraid of the IR bs.
Joined: Sep 2008
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,435
Likes: 1,202
From: 41S174E
Imagine how stupid the 43% of yes voters feel now.
Good work Network and Vara pilots, I’m going to drink half a box when you sign it up in celebration of your efforts!
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 324
Likes: 547
From: Melbourne, Australia
No thanks. Rather than filling my head up with crapola I’m going to think of something encouraging to say to all the pilots sticking together in the West………
Good work Network and Vara pilots, I’m going to drink half a box when you sign it up in celebration of your efforts!
Good work Network and Vara pilots, I’m going to drink half a box when you sign it up in celebration of your efforts!
Joined: Sep 2008
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,435
Likes: 1,202
From: 41S174E
Yeah give the yes voters who caved in too quick a pat on the back. Everyone gets a medal. Hooray. Mr positive.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,259
Likes: 1,169
From: Kichin
No thanks. Rather than filling my head up with crapola I’m going to think of something encouraging to say to all the pilots sticking together in the West………
Good work Network and Vara pilots, I’m going to drink half a box when you sign it up in celebration of your efforts!
Good work Network and Vara pilots, I’m going to drink half a box when you sign it up in celebration of your efforts!
Joined: Sep 2008
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,435
Likes: 1,202
From: 41S174E
Right, I now have 35 minutes on a train so I’ll explain why Soseg’s negative comments about the 43% annoyed me and then I’ll leave it alone.
Let’s say that the Network pilot group is split into ‘group A ‘ and ‘group B’ where group A is the 43% and B is the 57%. ( no point in including abstentions).
The best outcome for Network pilots, and to a lesser degree all Australian pilots, is if A and B get along, they are communicating with each other and able to join forces and pull in the same direction when it is needed. The worst thing for Network pilots is if hate and vitriol develop between group A and B because human nature requires most people to dig in, to become entrenched in their position and make decisions not based on the relevant facts in front of them, but on their instinctual connection to their group. The decisions become emotionally determined rather than logical and it makes it very difficult for the average human to change camps ( especially if they are adult males). That resistance to listening and to changing from group A to B increases in line with the animosity and adversarial comments.
A while back there was a challenging moment in the relationship between A and B ( that’s fine, same as all relationships) and now something good is happening, and naturally the sting of the challenge dissipates as the weeks roll by……..until someone in group B fans the embers.
The smart thing to do, the intelligent thing to do, the mature thing to do for the health of the relationship ( and therefore the advancement of pilot terms and conditions in Australia) is for group B pilots to control their emotions and comments and let time time do its thing so as to allow an easier path for group A pilots to change camps. Not all will but it’s the best chance of the best outcome.
Purposely highlighting the differences in a denigrating way, out of context, is the opposite of what’s needed. Ie it slows the advancement of pilot terms and conditions in Australia. What’s required is really easy, just stay mute on anything that splits the pilot group.
That’s my take anyway. I’m impressed with the cohesion displayed and wish you all the best from the East.
Let’s say that the Network pilot group is split into ‘group A ‘ and ‘group B’ where group A is the 43% and B is the 57%. ( no point in including abstentions).
The best outcome for Network pilots, and to a lesser degree all Australian pilots, is if A and B get along, they are communicating with each other and able to join forces and pull in the same direction when it is needed. The worst thing for Network pilots is if hate and vitriol develop between group A and B because human nature requires most people to dig in, to become entrenched in their position and make decisions not based on the relevant facts in front of them, but on their instinctual connection to their group. The decisions become emotionally determined rather than logical and it makes it very difficult for the average human to change camps ( especially if they are adult males). That resistance to listening and to changing from group A to B increases in line with the animosity and adversarial comments.
A while back there was a challenging moment in the relationship between A and B ( that’s fine, same as all relationships) and now something good is happening, and naturally the sting of the challenge dissipates as the weeks roll by……..until someone in group B fans the embers.
The smart thing to do, the intelligent thing to do, the mature thing to do for the health of the relationship ( and therefore the advancement of pilot terms and conditions in Australia) is for group B pilots to control their emotions and comments and let time time do its thing so as to allow an easier path for group A pilots to change camps. Not all will but it’s the best chance of the best outcome.
Purposely highlighting the differences in a denigrating way, out of context, is the opposite of what’s needed. Ie it slows the advancement of pilot terms and conditions in Australia. What’s required is really easy, just stay mute on anything that splits the pilot group.
That’s my take anyway. I’m impressed with the cohesion displayed and wish you all the best from the East.