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JUSTICE SERVED!!

Old 13th Sep 2023, 08:26
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I'm not a Union fan by any standards but I must say they've done well for the sacked workers, all credit to them. Now that Qantas has been proven to have illegally sacked all those workers, how about they are forced to pay every single worker their back pay from the day they were illegally sacked up until the day when each worker receives all of their due back pay. Then look at how much to fine Qantas. I'd suggest an amount to make sure they never pull another trick like that again. What do you think 100 million, 500 million and how about adding that the current Board and Executives are all given their marching orders (back-dated for Joyce so he doesn't get away with it) and not allowed to become Board Members or hold Executive positions within Australia ever again. Might make them think about what they did. A bit harsh do I hear, well just how harsh was it on all the workers who suddenly didn't have a job because Joyce and others wanted to save money to pay themselves more. Paul
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Old 13th Sep 2023, 08:32
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I’d think everyone would like to see the Coward St puppy patters suffer with reduced bonuses ect. but the fact is any fine and or backpay will come out of any bonuses they would have paid you.

No more staff travel bonuses/recovery/‘insert wanky name’ bonus for quite some time.
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Old 13th Sep 2023, 08:34
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Originally Posted by pppdrive
I'm not a Union fan by any standards but I must say they've done well for the sacked workers, all credit to them. Now that Qantas has been proven to have illegally sacked all those workers, how about they are forced to pay every single worker their back pay from the day they were illegally sacked up until the day when each worker receives all of their due back pay. Then look at how much to fine Qantas. I'd suggest an amount to make sure they never pull another trick like that again. What do you think 100 million, 500 million and how about adding that the current Board and Executives are all given their marching orders (back-dated for Joyce so he doesn't get away with it) and not allowed to become Board Members or hold Executive positions within Australia ever again. Might make them think about what they did. A bit harsh do I hear, well just how harsh was it on all the workers who suddenly didn't have a job because Joyce and others wanted to save money to pay themselves more. Paul
They should only be allowed to book flights using points for the rest of their lives.
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Old 13th Sep 2023, 08:46
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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IIRC it was mentioned somewhere in the media that the maximum fine is only $100m which in the scheme of things is not much.
Hopefully the compensation will do the heavy hitting.

How long can Dick Goyder seriously hang on for?
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Old 13th Sep 2023, 09:03
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pppdrive
I'm not a Union fan by any standards…
If not for unions this kind of thing would be happening more often. Who else is going to push back?

I am a big fan of unions. This is an example
of why.
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Old 13th Sep 2023, 09:07
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Originally Posted by pppdrive
I'm not a Union fan by any standards
Until you need one, that is.
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Old 13th Sep 2023, 09:48
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Originally Posted by pppdrive
I'm not a Union fan by any standards but I must say they've done well for the sacked workers, all credit to them. Now that Qantas has been proven to have illegally sacked all those workers, how about they are forced to pay every single worker their back pay from the day they were illegally sacked up until the day when each worker receives all of their due back pay. Then look at how much to fine Qantas. I'd suggest an amount to make sure they never pull another trick like that again. What do you think 100 million, 500 million and how about adding that the current Board and Executives are all given their marching orders (back-dated for Joyce so he doesn't get away with it) and not allowed to become Board Members or hold Executive positions within Australia ever again. Might make them think about what they did. A bit harsh do I hear, well just how harsh was it on all the workers who suddenly didn't have a job because Joyce and others wanted to save money to pay themselves more. Paul
Don’t forget, unions exist because of this kind of arrogance and lack of basic decency; employers caused unionism. Employers have exploited their workers as far back as the Industrial Revolution and beyond. It was the united front from the staff that allowed any form of push back.

And no, your suggestion is not harsh, if anything it’s too soft. Industrial Revolution conditions is what CEOs want, I’d suggest Industrial Revolution punishments are what they deserve.
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Old 13th Sep 2023, 10:10
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Wonder if the Judges will get their Chairman's Club memberships revoked ?

Is QF still banning AFR ? That was very weird conduct by AJ - "You do not have the right to critisize me"

Good win for ground handlers , but they won't get their next 5/10 years wages paid , al al "loss of future earnings" that is a element of damages for injured workers

Think damages will be between $50K & $100K , better than a kick in the arse

The guys should try to press for some damages & reinstatement in old job or new role . Nothing stopping them from approaching QF directly off their own bat (loose the lawyers & unions) - you might luck out

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Old 13th Sep 2023, 10:23
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The win is one for all unionised workers.
It should help to stop the degradation of workers rights that the AJ and his lickspittles have contributed to over the last ten years or so.

You can't just sack everyone and employ s-abs rather than engage in realistic wage negotiations.
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Old 13th Sep 2023, 10:52
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Originally Posted by Makiko
Wonder if the Judges will get their Chairman's Club memberships revoked ?

Is QF still banning AFR ? That was very weird conduct by AJ - "You do not have the right to critisize me"

Good win for ground handlers , but they won't get their next 5/10 years wages paid , al al "loss of future earnings" that is a element of damages for injured workers

Think damages will be between $50K & $100K , better than a kick in the arse

The guys should try to press for some damages & reinstatement in old job or new role . Nothing stopping them from approaching QF directly off their own bat (loose the lawyers & unions) - you might luck out
I read somewhere today that the AFR is again available on board & i guess in the lounges.
Instead of trying to blame everybody else for their ongoing dismal performance they need to work with what little respect is left in the workforce & the customer base.
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Old 13th Sep 2023, 11:45
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Wonder if the Judges will get their Chairman's Club memberships revoked ?
Bit of a strange one there. If the decision had come down in favor of QF, then the howl would have been that the Justices had been "bought". It's come down the other way, so will only be seen as extremely churlish to now banish the Justices.
​​​​​​​If I were the Justices, I'd be sniffing my CL drinks very carefully for the smell of uric acid from now on.
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Old 13th Sep 2023, 11:46
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Originally Posted by Lead Balloon
Qantas won't punt High Court judges from the CL.
What should happen is that the Parliament should legislate to ban any Commonwealth official, judge, member of Parliament, member of the ADF etc from accepting the largesse. And pigs might fly...
And CASA employees....
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-...unge/102845600
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Old 13th Sep 2023, 13:17
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A few penalties is just a drop in the ocean compared to what they will save in the coming years and decades
Have you factored in the delays caused because there may be not enough ground staff available for every flight and the lost baggage, the shocking meals and the staff and the public knowing that 1700 Qantas staff were illegally sacked.
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Old 13th Sep 2023, 21:42
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Originally Posted by pppdrive
Now that Qantas has been proven to have illegally sacked all those workers, how about they are forced to pay every single worker their back pay from the day they were illegally sacked up until the day when each worker receives all of their due back pay. Then look at how much to fine Qantas. I'd suggest an amount to make sure they never pull another trick like that again.
Even if they do pay it all back and more, they're still ahead - and that's the problem! So long as they can see year-on-year savings in the 10's or 100's of millions, there's absolute no disincentive for another company - or Quaint-asre even - to pull a similar stunt.

Hence my previous comment, any penalty should at least be comparable to the supposed "savings" incurred, and be an ongoing, annual, thing, in order to ensure there's absolutely zero financial incentive for it to happen illegally.
Originally Posted by The ABC
"Even if the compensation bill goes over $100 million, on the evidence before the court, Qantas have saved $180 million in the first year by the outsourcing, and continue to have year-on-year savings of $100 million per year," he said. "Taking in all of the costs, and some of the penalties the court might order, it's likely Qantas will still be well ahead. "It's not really a disincentive for them to continue to outsource, or for another employer to do the same thing."
Source
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Old 13th Sep 2023, 22:32
  #55 (permalink)  
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And the taxpayer because it’s tax deductible as are the costs.
Deduct from what taxes?

According to the media and posts elsewhere in this forum, whilst Qantas has been the recipient of over $2 billion in Australian tax payer funded corporate welfare, Qantas has not paid Company tax during the Joyce Years (2008 to date) and may have accumulated tax deductible losses of up to $3 billion.
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Old 13th Sep 2023, 22:47
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Even if they do pay it all back and more, they're still ahead - and that's the problem! So long as they can see year-on-year savings in the 10's or 100's of millions, there's absolute no disincentive for another company - or Quaint-asre even - to pull a similar stunt.
Yes this is the problem and the point is made in today’s AFR. QF are ahead 100mil a year by illegally sacking their staff. The only losers here are the staff who were fired. QF even saved money by continually taking their case back through Court as well.
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Old 13th Sep 2023, 22:59
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Depends on how you measure and value things. The raw comparisons of just employee wages v outsourced provider contract costs say Qantas is ahead $100M per year. But where do the costs of damage done by incompetent ground staff, the lost goodwill and custom due to baggage ending up in the wrong places etc factor in the calculation? Plus the costs of Federal Court hearing + Full Court of the Federal Court hearing + Special Leave Application to the High Court + High Court hearing for Qantas and the respondents = many, many millions. Plus the yet-to-be determined compensation - another trip to the Federal Court...
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Old 13th Sep 2023, 23:03
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The rub is none of that influences anyone’s bonus. QF could pay fines forever but no one in management will be punished financially for it. However 100 mill a year in staff savings is going to help their pay packets regardless of Court costs. I would also hazard a guess that no one worries about lost bags or hangar rash. As long as there isn’t a prang it’s all good.

That is why airlines do a lot of stupid things financially too, it’s because it is all about triggering bonuses not actually running an airline. You can’t tell me that having a airline with 7 AOCs and the bureaucratic infrastructure that comes with that is the best way to operate.
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Old 13th Sep 2023, 23:53
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Fines & Compensation.

Compensation = Every unlawful dismissed worker gets maximum redundancy payment regardless of years of service. Worker + immediate family (or + 1 for singles) Id 90% for next 10 years confirmed seats and entry to Chairman’s Lounge for life.

Fines/Punishment + Joyce & Board all get Directors ID’s revoked for life and flight bans with Qantas & Jetstar for life. As they are not Fit & Proper persons due to proven illegal activity? (a reason it was implemented, was to stamp out illegal activity - the sackings was found to be illegal)

Lost/Late/Damaged baggage compensation to be increased by 300% and lost is considered to be 5 hrs after your flight lands.
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Old 14th Sep 2023, 02:43
  #60 (permalink)  
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If you want to choke have a read of that.

https://www.qantas.com/content/dam/q...s-document.pdf
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