Joyce ‘retires’ early 👍
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Skating away on the thin ice of a new day.
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He was a champion to the conservatives for his union bashing and he's clearly too close to Albanese as recent events have shown.
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They have stood side by side comparing notes & ticking off each decision made over their reign together.
Interesting day tomorrow when the high court decides on the ramp workers termination.
Global Aviator said:
Precisely, starting with Goyder. 
A good summary of Goyder's leadership at QF:
Richard Goyder’s days as Qantas chairman are numbered — and deservedly so
Story by Adam Schwab
It certainly has been a tale of two Goyders. The best of times, the worst of times.
Rewind a year and Richard Goyder was arguably the most powerful person in corporate Australia, being chairman of three of Australia’s ten leading organisations: Qantas, the AFL and Woodside. Having two of these roles is remarkable; having three is some sort of Melbourne Club Jedi mind trick.
Meanwhile, Richard’s cousin, Tim, also known as the “other Goyder”, was toiling away in the far less salubrious mid-cap mining sector, with stakes in up-and-comer explorer Chalice Mining and lithium play Liontown Resources.
Quite a lot has changed in a year.
Now, Tim Goyder is on top of the world. Last week Liontown agreed to a $6.6 billion sale to American giant Albermarle (with Gina Rinehart circling, the price could be even higher). And with Chalice also performing well, Tim Goyder’s net worth is arguably now more than an estimated $1.2 billion.
Meanwhile, poor Richie Goyder’s reputation is worth less than a million unredeemable Qantas points, having staked his repute on the performance of his beloved Alan Joyce — the “best CEO in the country by the length of a straight”. Joyce, who these days would struggle to beat Harvey Weinstein in a popularity contest, led Qantas off a reputational cliff, culminating in an unprecedented ACCC action for alleged misleading and deceptive conduct, which could cost Qantas shareholders upwards of $600 million.
The true scale of Goyder’s mess is slowly coming to light. The chairman backed Joyce through years of customer service woes, the trashing of Qantas’ reputation, and a long-running regulatory investigation — and all on the basis that the beleaguered CEO delivered big time for Qantas shareholders. This well-worn trope, presumably a Joyce PR-creation (the man after all is a PR and lobbying genius), is gleefully regurgitated by business commentators.
But even the myth of Joyce being a hero of Qantas shareholders is questionable. Roughly a year before Joyce was appointed CEO in 2008, Qantas had hit $6.34 per share. But Joyce had the good fortune of taking over from Geoff Dixon just as the global financial crisis was reaching its peak, with Qantas’ share price slumping to around $2.75 by the time Joyce took the reins.
As of writing, Qantas is trading at $5.54 (with the company having only paid 69 cents in dividends since 2009). That means Qantas has returned 126% since the start of Joyce’s tenure (and far less if you use an averaged pre-GFC price). The S&P200 Total Return Index is up by 145% since 2011 (as far back as online records show) and would be significantly higher since 2008.
In short, Qantas significantly underperformed the index. For Joyce’s co-called corporate magnificence, Qantas is trading at a lower level than in 2007, even if you include dividends.
But that’s not all. Airline stocks are extraordinarily fraught. As noted by Warren Buffett (whose few rare investing mistakes involved aviation), “If a far-sighted capitalist had been present at Kitty Hawk, he would have done his successors a huge favour by shooting Orville down.” When investing in airlines, which are prone to wild swings in investor sentiment, shareholders require additional “alpha” to cover the elevated risk. That is, you don’t invest in airlines to get “market-like” returns; you can buy a cheap index fund for that. Shareholders invest in airlines to get significantly above market returns.
Joyce, for all the supposed adulation, did as good a job for Qantas shareholders as he did for Jetstar customers still waiting for their missing bags from their Cairns flight in October 2022.
This is where Goyder got it so wrong. Joyce was no messiah, and the estimated $125 million pay packet that former chairman Leigh Clifford and Goyder showered upon him was utterly undeserved. Not only did Joyce trash Qantas’ incredible brand and customer loyalty, not only did he leave the airline’s new CEO Vanessa Hudson with a $15 billion bill for new planes, but he also didn’t even deliver a market return for shareholders.
Meanwhile, in June, Goyder allowed Joyce to cash in $17 million in Qantas shares while the CEO had full knowledge of a serious ACCC investigation. The Goyder-sanctioned share sale harks back to the bad old days of Australian executive remuneration, where complicit boards let executives like Phil Green, Sol Trujillo and David Coe make millions of dollars while shareholders saw their stakes dwindle.
Goyder’s position as Qantas chairman (along with his fading AFL role) is completely untenable. It was remarkable that Goyder — who was a massive failure as CEO of Wesfarmers, wasting billions on its poorly timed Coles acquisition — was able to recraft himself as some sort of boardroom sage. During his 12-year reign at Wesfarmers, its share price rose a mere 10% (compared with 34% for the All Ordinaries, a total market barometer for the Australian stock market).
Goyder was the Keyser Söze of the directors club, somehow convincing corporate Australia that a disastrous tenure running Wesfarmers meant he was fit to chair three of the country’s most prestigious institutions.
The mess at Qantas is what happens when a weak chair becomes infatuated with a celebrity CEO. It will be a miracle if Goyder lasts until Christmas. If he had any sense, he’d avoid fronting the Qantas AGM scheduled for 3 November. His transition from dean of the Australian Chairman’s Club to corporate governance laughing stock has been swift indeed.
The dream team of the last xx years ain’t gunna cut it and it looks like the board really need a shake up along the way.
A good summary of Goyder's leadership at QF:
Richard Goyder’s days as Qantas chairman are numbered — and deservedly so
Story by Adam Schwab
It certainly has been a tale of two Goyders. The best of times, the worst of times.
Rewind a year and Richard Goyder was arguably the most powerful person in corporate Australia, being chairman of three of Australia’s ten leading organisations: Qantas, the AFL and Woodside. Having two of these roles is remarkable; having three is some sort of Melbourne Club Jedi mind trick.
Meanwhile, Richard’s cousin, Tim, also known as the “other Goyder”, was toiling away in the far less salubrious mid-cap mining sector, with stakes in up-and-comer explorer Chalice Mining and lithium play Liontown Resources.
Quite a lot has changed in a year.
Now, Tim Goyder is on top of the world. Last week Liontown agreed to a $6.6 billion sale to American giant Albermarle (with Gina Rinehart circling, the price could be even higher). And with Chalice also performing well, Tim Goyder’s net worth is arguably now more than an estimated $1.2 billion.
Meanwhile, poor Richie Goyder’s reputation is worth less than a million unredeemable Qantas points, having staked his repute on the performance of his beloved Alan Joyce — the “best CEO in the country by the length of a straight”. Joyce, who these days would struggle to beat Harvey Weinstein in a popularity contest, led Qantas off a reputational cliff, culminating in an unprecedented ACCC action for alleged misleading and deceptive conduct, which could cost Qantas shareholders upwards of $600 million.
The true scale of Goyder’s mess is slowly coming to light. The chairman backed Joyce through years of customer service woes, the trashing of Qantas’ reputation, and a long-running regulatory investigation — and all on the basis that the beleaguered CEO delivered big time for Qantas shareholders. This well-worn trope, presumably a Joyce PR-creation (the man after all is a PR and lobbying genius), is gleefully regurgitated by business commentators.
But even the myth of Joyce being a hero of Qantas shareholders is questionable. Roughly a year before Joyce was appointed CEO in 2008, Qantas had hit $6.34 per share. But Joyce had the good fortune of taking over from Geoff Dixon just as the global financial crisis was reaching its peak, with Qantas’ share price slumping to around $2.75 by the time Joyce took the reins.
As of writing, Qantas is trading at $5.54 (with the company having only paid 69 cents in dividends since 2009). That means Qantas has returned 126% since the start of Joyce’s tenure (and far less if you use an averaged pre-GFC price). The S&P200 Total Return Index is up by 145% since 2011 (as far back as online records show) and would be significantly higher since 2008.
In short, Qantas significantly underperformed the index. For Joyce’s co-called corporate magnificence, Qantas is trading at a lower level than in 2007, even if you include dividends.
But that’s not all. Airline stocks are extraordinarily fraught. As noted by Warren Buffett (whose few rare investing mistakes involved aviation), “If a far-sighted capitalist had been present at Kitty Hawk, he would have done his successors a huge favour by shooting Orville down.” When investing in airlines, which are prone to wild swings in investor sentiment, shareholders require additional “alpha” to cover the elevated risk. That is, you don’t invest in airlines to get “market-like” returns; you can buy a cheap index fund for that. Shareholders invest in airlines to get significantly above market returns.
Joyce, for all the supposed adulation, did as good a job for Qantas shareholders as he did for Jetstar customers still waiting for their missing bags from their Cairns flight in October 2022.
This is where Goyder got it so wrong. Joyce was no messiah, and the estimated $125 million pay packet that former chairman Leigh Clifford and Goyder showered upon him was utterly undeserved. Not only did Joyce trash Qantas’ incredible brand and customer loyalty, not only did he leave the airline’s new CEO Vanessa Hudson with a $15 billion bill for new planes, but he also didn’t even deliver a market return for shareholders.
Meanwhile, in June, Goyder allowed Joyce to cash in $17 million in Qantas shares while the CEO had full knowledge of a serious ACCC investigation. The Goyder-sanctioned share sale harks back to the bad old days of Australian executive remuneration, where complicit boards let executives like Phil Green, Sol Trujillo and David Coe make millions of dollars while shareholders saw their stakes dwindle.
Goyder’s position as Qantas chairman (along with his fading AFL role) is completely untenable. It was remarkable that Goyder — who was a massive failure as CEO of Wesfarmers, wasting billions on its poorly timed Coles acquisition — was able to recraft himself as some sort of boardroom sage. During his 12-year reign at Wesfarmers, its share price rose a mere 10% (compared with 34% for the All Ordinaries, a total market barometer for the Australian stock market).
Goyder was the Keyser Söze of the directors club, somehow convincing corporate Australia that a disastrous tenure running Wesfarmers meant he was fit to chair three of the country’s most prestigious institutions.
The mess at Qantas is what happens when a weak chair becomes infatuated with a celebrity CEO. It will be a miracle if Goyder lasts until Christmas. If he had any sense, he’d avoid fronting the Qantas AGM scheduled for 3 November. His transition from dean of the Australian Chairman’s Club to corporate governance laughing stock has been swift indeed.
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This is where Goyder got it so wrong. Joyce was no messiah, and the estimated $125 million pay packet that former chairman Leigh Clifford and Goyder showered upon him was utterly undeserved. Not only did Joyce trash Qantas’ incredible brand and customer loyalty, not only did he leave the airline’s new CEO Vanessa Hudson with a $15 billion bill for new planes, but he also didn’t even deliver a market return for shareholders.
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short flights long nights
It's amazing how all these investigative and financial journo's climbing on the "it was so obvious" bash Joyce and Qantas bandwagon had completely missed the boat until it was put on a platter before them. If Alston at the AFR hadn't been the only one prepared to call a spade a spade, AJ, Hudson, Goyder et al would be still on the farewell gravy train. Now there's so many people distancing themselves, you wonder who was ever up the pointy end on jollies or in the lounges.
Please see my post a bit earlier. I could not agree with you more.
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Two journalists who didn’t were Micheal West and Michael Sainsbury they have been writing about this for years but unfortunately don’t get the exposure.
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I saw your post and obviously agree with you. However, comments on an internet forum by what in most cases could be seen to be just disgruntled QF staff vs mainstream "name" journos feeling it's now safe to stick their head above the parapet? Literally everyone is now having a chop. Makes you wonder why no one was prepared to ask the hard questions before, or if they did, was it just drowned in the white noise?
Interesting to see that Terry McCrann, who doesn't disclose it but is known to be a Chairmans Lounge member, has written a defence of Qantas in today's Herald-Sun etc. Makes me think Qantas may have called some of their CL members to use their influence to change the conversation.
I saw your post and obviously agree with you. However, comments on an internet forum by what in most cases could be seen to be just disgruntled QF staff vs mainstream "name" journos feeling it's now safe to stick their head above the parapet? Literally everyone is now having a chop. Makes you wonder why no one was prepared to ask the hard questions before, or if they did, was it just drowned in the white noise?
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I saw your post and obviously agree with you. However, comments on an internet forum by what in most cases could be seen to be just disgruntled QF staff vs mainstream "name" journos feeling it's now safe to stick their head above the parapet? Literally everyone is now having a chop. Makes you wonder why no one was prepared to ask the hard questions before, or if they did, was it just drowned in the white noise?
upgrades and free lounge membership I would say. Qantas has been a train wreck for years but as you say the noise now is to big so they all hop on the band wagon
High Court reveals every current judge is a member of Qantas’ ‘most exclusive club in Australia’
High Court reveals every current judge is a member of Qantas’ ‘most exclusive club in Australia’
The High Court has exposed secret members of Qantas’ exclusive Chairman’s Lounge amid a landmark case over the sacking of 1700 workers.The High Court has revealed every current judge is a member of Qantas’ secretive Chairman’s Lounge, an invitation-only club that offers its members free champagne, steak dinners and cocktails on demand.
As the High Court prepares to hand down its judgment in a landmark case regarding the long-running battle between Qantas and the Transport Workers’ Union (TWU) over the sacking of 1,700 ground staff at the height of the pandemic, a spokesman has confirmed the issue was raised and cleared with the parties involved.
As the High Court prepares to hand down its judgment in a landmark case regarding the long-running battle between Qantas and the Transport Workers’ Union (TWU) over the sacking of 1,700 ground staff at the height of the pandemic, a spokesman has confirmed the issue was raised and cleared with the parties involved.
We all knew it, it’s just coming out how weaponised the lounge was. It’s now looking like like Capone era stuff!!
’I told the Judge his name was on the list as well’
Last edited by V-Jet; 12th Sep 2023 at 02:49.
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The fix is simple no one on the government payroll can accept a membership. Problem solved. Would any government have the balls to do it, I doubt it.
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I wouldn’t be surprised if ‘people’ start handing their memberships back so as to avoid uncomfortable questioning.
The fix is simple no one on the government payroll can accept a membership. Problem solved. Would any government have the balls to do it, I doubt it.
Certainly if I was in a court case against QF I would be pushing very hard against the Judge on the matter of conflict of interest The argument in the past has been it is given to the office holder not the individual, but I believe even that is very murky.
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When you think about it the Chairmans Club is just a sophisticated version of a drug peddler paying off the police, it's all about buying influence, those steaks and champagne don't come cost free to QF.
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a spokesman has confirmed the issue was raised and cleared with the parties involved.
Snuffle gulp "No, none what so ever! Pass the Beluga, if you don't mind" snuffle gulp snuffle
Gulp snuffle "Good, so we're unanimous then! My, the Chateau Lafite is a good one today. What time is your flight?" snuffle snuffle
Last edited by Traffic_Is_Er_Was; 12th Sep 2023 at 07:08.
Just think about that for a moment. The CEO personally selects the individuals invited to the CC. Including all High Court judges and many, many elected officials. Forget the pub test, you'd be defenestrated from the front bar at astonishing velocity and arc.
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Nice quote V-Jet from the movie The Untouchables.
It's not even sophisticated. Blatant as. But there are obviously important privacy issues at stake such that QANTAS can't 'talk' about them.
Just think about that for a moment. The CEO personally selects the individuals invited to the CC. Including all High Court judges and many, many elected officials. Forget the pub test, you'd be defenestrated from the front bar at astonishing velocity and arc.
Just think about that for a moment. The CEO personally selects the individuals invited to the CC. Including all High Court judges and many, many elected officials. Forget the pub test, you'd be defenestrated from the front bar at astonishing velocity and arc.