Australian Airline Pilot: Respected Profession or 'Noose around your Neck'
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Australian Airline Pilot: Respected Profession or 'Noose around your Neck'
Over the course of several years, Australia has witnessed a gradual decline in pilot wages and quality of life, leading to significant concerns and discussions within the aviation industry - albeit not in the corporate C Suites.
Today, pilots in Australia are facing an even more challenging environment characterised by stagnant or declining incomes in the face of record corporate profits, prompting debates about the sustainability of the profession and its potential long-term implications. The ongoing discussion surrounding pilot wages reflect the complex interplay between market forces, industry dynamics, corporate greed and the aspirations of those who play a crucial role in ensuring safe and efficient air travel across the country and abroad.
As expected, the ATO just released a scathing insight into the state of the profession while releasing their 2020-2021 % Payrise data: ‘Noose around your neck’: ATO data reveals Australian jobs with the biggest pay rises
"But if you’re a pilot (19 per cent pay cut) or a cleaner (0.5 per cent pay cut), your situation is much worse. The rising price of rent, groceries and fuel probably feel like a noose around your neck."
"Pilots and aircraft mechanics had a shocking year because of course the airline industry was profoundly disrupted by Covid lockdowns."
"Sportspeople also had a bad year, accepting Covid-driven pay cuts. They have bounced back since, while some other types of jobs are in more of a long-term downward spiral."
Covid was especially tough on the airline industry worldwide, but as noticed from our peers, they are all catching up now with most exceeding where they would've been - this as they get to share in the successes and prosperity of the airlines they work for. Some will say it is market forces, but most operators in Australia, except for Qantas mainline, are already looking outside our borders to fill operating seats.
The US majors are signing significant multi-year Pilot Annual Pay Increases, this while they themselves are not (yet) recruiting from outside their borders - the smaller airlines and regionals are already doing this yes.
With EBA's currently under negotiation and others soon to be commenced, it is prudent to understand the state of play here - Is it financial survival or mere corporate (read C Suite) greed, this while simultaneously destroying the most regulated profession in the world.
To answer this, let's compare the financial situation of some of those US airlines listed above to those closer to home - then decide for yourself if your profession is respected, or a 'Noose around your Neck' as the article infers.
Net Income: The amount an individual or business makes after deducting costs, allowances and taxes. Net income is what the business has left over after all expenses, including salary and wages, cost of goods or raw material and taxes.
Forecasted Figures 2023
American Airlines: Revenue 52.7bn USD vs Net Income 1.89bn USD = Net Profit Margin 3.59%
United Airlines: Revenue 52.7bn USD vs Net Income 2.98bn USD = Net Profit Margin 5.65%
Delta Airlines: Revenue 54.4bn USD vs 3.27bn USD = Net Profit Margin 6.01%
Southwest Airlines: Revenue 26.6bn USD vs Net Income 1.70bn USD = Net Profit Margin 6.39%
Air New Zealand: Revenue 6.34bn NZD vs Net Income 426mn NZD = Net Profit Margin 6.72%
Qantas Airways*: Revenue 19.6bn AUD vs Net Income 1.72bn AUD = Net Profit Margin 8.78%
(*) Figures not updated for the 2.48bn AUD revised Net Income as reported
Today, pilots in Australia are facing an even more challenging environment characterised by stagnant or declining incomes in the face of record corporate profits, prompting debates about the sustainability of the profession and its potential long-term implications. The ongoing discussion surrounding pilot wages reflect the complex interplay between market forces, industry dynamics, corporate greed and the aspirations of those who play a crucial role in ensuring safe and efficient air travel across the country and abroad.
As expected, the ATO just released a scathing insight into the state of the profession while releasing their 2020-2021 % Payrise data: ‘Noose around your neck’: ATO data reveals Australian jobs with the biggest pay rises
"But if you’re a pilot (19 per cent pay cut) or a cleaner (0.5 per cent pay cut), your situation is much worse. The rising price of rent, groceries and fuel probably feel like a noose around your neck."
"Pilots and aircraft mechanics had a shocking year because of course the airline industry was profoundly disrupted by Covid lockdowns."
"Sportspeople also had a bad year, accepting Covid-driven pay cuts. They have bounced back since, while some other types of jobs are in more of a long-term downward spiral."
Covid was especially tough on the airline industry worldwide, but as noticed from our peers, they are all catching up now with most exceeding where they would've been - this as they get to share in the successes and prosperity of the airlines they work for. Some will say it is market forces, but most operators in Australia, except for Qantas mainline, are already looking outside our borders to fill operating seats.
The US majors are signing significant multi-year Pilot Annual Pay Increases, this while they themselves are not (yet) recruiting from outside their borders - the smaller airlines and regionals are already doing this yes.
With EBA's currently under negotiation and others soon to be commenced, it is prudent to understand the state of play here - Is it financial survival or mere corporate (read C Suite) greed, this while simultaneously destroying the most regulated profession in the world.
To answer this, let's compare the financial situation of some of those US airlines listed above to those closer to home - then decide for yourself if your profession is respected, or a 'Noose around your Neck' as the article infers.
Net Income: The amount an individual or business makes after deducting costs, allowances and taxes. Net income is what the business has left over after all expenses, including salary and wages, cost of goods or raw material and taxes.
Forecasted Figures 2023
American Airlines: Revenue 52.7bn USD vs Net Income 1.89bn USD = Net Profit Margin 3.59%
United Airlines: Revenue 52.7bn USD vs Net Income 2.98bn USD = Net Profit Margin 5.65%
Delta Airlines: Revenue 54.4bn USD vs 3.27bn USD = Net Profit Margin 6.01%
Southwest Airlines: Revenue 26.6bn USD vs Net Income 1.70bn USD = Net Profit Margin 6.39%
Air New Zealand: Revenue 6.34bn NZD vs Net Income 426mn NZD = Net Profit Margin 6.72%
Qantas Airways*: Revenue 19.6bn AUD vs Net Income 1.72bn AUD = Net Profit Margin 8.78%
(*) Figures not updated for the 2.48bn AUD revised Net Income as reported
The following 11 users liked this post by RealSatoshi:
Top Answer
2nd Jul 2023, 11:31
We can all whinge about Joyce and Co and the attitude towards the work force and lack of respect for the profession etc (I'm the worst culprit of this) but can you really blame them?
My question is what have we done to demand better? No one hands you respect you need to take it.
1.Sick of horrible rosters? How many times do you say "**** it, it's my kids birthday and you didn't give me the day off I'm going to call in sick anyway."
2. Scheduling to the limit with an expectation that you'll extend to get the job done. Do you say "We are fully boarded but no, I'm not extending I'm getting Off"
3. ****ty scheduling, hotels, meals, paxing in cattle class middle seats. How often do you go fatigued because of this?
4. PIA? At least JQ did it, but didn't follow through quick enough then COVID etc. Then for some reason we rolled over after covid. QF whinge about network etc, when was the last time you did anything about it? Ties and PAs don't count.
5. Network pilots doing days off for $$ that wouldn't get most people out Of bed etc and so many more examples...
The problem has always been if you don't bend over and take it someone else will. Perhaps finally there is a chance that the pool to choose from is emptying... But will we still roll over for a smacko and a belly rub? My guess is we probably will.
No one gets what they deserve in this world. You get what
you take. There is no room for weakness and for a bunch of fairly intelligent people, we are weak as ****.
My question is what have we done to demand better? No one hands you respect you need to take it.
1.Sick of horrible rosters? How many times do you say "**** it, it's my kids birthday and you didn't give me the day off I'm going to call in sick anyway."
2. Scheduling to the limit with an expectation that you'll extend to get the job done. Do you say "We are fully boarded but no, I'm not extending I'm getting Off"
3. ****ty scheduling, hotels, meals, paxing in cattle class middle seats. How often do you go fatigued because of this?
4. PIA? At least JQ did it, but didn't follow through quick enough then COVID etc. Then for some reason we rolled over after covid. QF whinge about network etc, when was the last time you did anything about it? Ties and PAs don't count.
5. Network pilots doing days off for $$ that wouldn't get most people out Of bed etc and so many more examples...
The problem has always been if you don't bend over and take it someone else will. Perhaps finally there is a chance that the pool to choose from is emptying... But will we still roll over for a smacko and a belly rub? My guess is we probably will.
No one gets what they deserve in this world. You get what
you take. There is no room for weakness and for a bunch of fairly intelligent people, we are weak as ****.
If the world can manage another 18-24 months without a SARS-GFC-Bird Flu-Covid event then the pilot profession will really have the upper hand. If we decide to take advantage of it. Whilst there are airlines in Australia that do not supply crew meals, whilst EBAs are sometimes a decade old, then management is still taking a liberty. Show them how you feel at EBA time ladies and gents.
The following 10 users liked this post by Icarus2001:
It's as easy as not screwing those below you. Bringing up the lowest paid pilot sets the benchmark for everyone.
It should be about ridding the industry of bin chicken airlines and getting every one of those deserving pilots working on the best conditions available….. then hammering some serious, overdue increases to those EBAs
The following 7 users liked this post by A320 Flyer:
Two EAs voted up by 80% plus of pilots, all self inflicted.
The following 3 users liked this post by dragon man:
Over the course of several years, Australia has witnessed a gradual decline in pilot wages and quality of life
Abeles, Murdoch and Turbo Bowtie led the charge to eventual oblivion.
It has been all downhill since then. Unless, and until, the pilot group stands united, things are not going to improve to any extent. Is that likely to happen ? I suspect not anytime soon.
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We can all whinge about Joyce and Co and the attitude towards the work force and lack of respect for the profession etc (I'm the worst culprit of this) but can you really blame them?
My question is what have we done to demand better? No one hands you respect you need to take it.
1.Sick of horrible rosters? How many times do you say "**** it, it's my kids birthday and you didn't give me the day off I'm going to call in sick anyway."
2. Scheduling to the limit with an expectation that you'll extend to get the job done. Do you say "We are fully boarded but no, I'm not extending I'm getting Off"
3. ****ty scheduling, hotels, meals, paxing in cattle class middle seats. How often do you go fatigued because of this?
4. PIA? At least JQ did it, but didn't follow through quick enough then COVID etc. Then for some reason we rolled over after covid. QF whinge about network etc, when was the last time you did anything about it? Ties and PAs don't count.
5. Network pilots doing days off for $$ that wouldn't get most people out Of bed etc and so many more examples...
The problem has always been if you don't bend over and take it someone else will. Perhaps finally there is a chance that the pool to choose from is emptying... But will we still roll over for a smacko and a belly rub? My guess is we probably will.
No one gets what they deserve in this world. You get what
you take. There is no room for weakness and for a bunch of fairly intelligent people, we are weak as ****.
My question is what have we done to demand better? No one hands you respect you need to take it.
1.Sick of horrible rosters? How many times do you say "**** it, it's my kids birthday and you didn't give me the day off I'm going to call in sick anyway."
2. Scheduling to the limit with an expectation that you'll extend to get the job done. Do you say "We are fully boarded but no, I'm not extending I'm getting Off"
3. ****ty scheduling, hotels, meals, paxing in cattle class middle seats. How often do you go fatigued because of this?
4. PIA? At least JQ did it, but didn't follow through quick enough then COVID etc. Then for some reason we rolled over after covid. QF whinge about network etc, when was the last time you did anything about it? Ties and PAs don't count.
5. Network pilots doing days off for $$ that wouldn't get most people out Of bed etc and so many more examples...
The problem has always been if you don't bend over and take it someone else will. Perhaps finally there is a chance that the pool to choose from is emptying... But will we still roll over for a smacko and a belly rub? My guess is we probably will.
No one gets what they deserve in this world. You get what
you take. There is no room for weakness and for a bunch of fairly intelligent people, we are weak as ****.
The following 21 users liked this post by cLeArIcE:
I think you are not standing back quite far enough. Things were not all that bad up until around the late 80s, although the Ansett amalgamation didn't help out promotion prospects for some time.
Abeles, Murdoch and Turbo Bowtie led the charge to eventual oblivion.
It has been all downhill since then. Unless, and until, the pilot group stands united, things are not going to improve to any extent. Is that likely to happen ? I suspect not anytime soon.
Abeles, Murdoch and Turbo Bowtie led the charge to eventual oblivion.
It has been all downhill since then. Unless, and until, the pilot group stands united, things are not going to improve to any extent. Is that likely to happen ? I suspect not anytime soon.
"We" have to become stronger via our unions, and we have to actually vote for and take action. When I asked my colleagues (UK) why we didn't take a stand against working on Christmas day, my own colleagues were not interested and just told me it was what I had signed up for. Unbelievable.
If we don't fight and stand up for ourselves, the bosses will continue to walk all over us. They already have us paying for our own training and our initial type ratings - some even make their crews pay for their recurrent Sim tests and uniforms.
Look at UK train drivers - strong unions, strong member support, good Ts & Cs. Even (UK) truck drivers have better working balance than pilots, and the truck drivers have tachometers to check they are sticking to their correct breaks and schedules etc.
Nobody is going to suddenly improve our airline Ts & Cs except us.
If we don't fight and stand up for ourselves, the bosses will continue to walk all over us. They already have us paying for our own training and our initial type ratings - some even make their crews pay for their recurrent Sim tests and uniforms.
Look at UK train drivers - strong unions, strong member support, good Ts & Cs. Even (UK) truck drivers have better working balance than pilots, and the truck drivers have tachometers to check they are sticking to their correct breaks and schedules etc.
Nobody is going to suddenly improve our airline Ts & Cs except us.
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I wonder if the American Pilots think of Australians as Bin Chickens!
Narrow body 475k and Wide Body 575k USD Captain figures posted with the new agreements compared to what we work for.
Comments apparently floating around- “Resign and go to America”, “The industry is different in America”, “We live in Australia not America” “You can Get let go if times get tough”, “ You cannot compare the salary in America to Australia”
IMHO with that sort of mentality Australia will continue to be a race to the bottom….
End of the day you always have a choice to Vote YES or NO with a agreement.
Look at the figures posted above with how far behind we are when you next think about voting in an agreement.
Narrow body 475k and Wide Body 575k USD Captain figures posted with the new agreements compared to what we work for.
Comments apparently floating around- “Resign and go to America”, “The industry is different in America”, “We live in Australia not America” “You can Get let go if times get tough”, “ You cannot compare the salary in America to Australia”
IMHO with that sort of mentality Australia will continue to be a race to the bottom….
End of the day you always have a choice to Vote YES or NO with a agreement.
Look at the figures posted above with how far behind we are when you next think about voting in an agreement.
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The following 4 users liked this post by beamer:
beamer, you’re welcome to get flogged for below par pay, but I’d like to enjoy my job AND be remunerated according to my skill and expertise. As I am only an average pilot, I worked VERY hard to get where I did and spent a lot of money on training (pre-employment) to get where I am now.
PS I’m surprised tail wheel “liked” your comment.
PS I’m surprised tail wheel “liked” your comment.
The following 3 users liked this post by C441:
Good old Oz. We all vote up these pissy agreements, then many just bitch and moan about the conditions for the coming years.
Team Virgin, balls in your court, how about you show everyone how it’s done. For a start, old base pay needs to be reinstated, that’s a given. Absolute non negotiable that one. I wouldn’t be accepting anything less than that plus 20%. But you will probably cave in at current base pay plus 3%. Happy to be proven wrong, although I’ve given up attempting to be proven wrong lately.
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You bet we will.
Good old Oz. We all vote up these pissy agreements, then many just bitch and moan about the conditions for the coming years.
Team Virgin, balls in your court, how about you show everyone how it’s done. For a start, old base pay needs to be reinstated, that’s a given. Absolute non negotiable that one. I wouldn’t be accepting anything less than that plus 20%. But you will probably cave in at current base pay plus 3%. Happy to be proven wrong, although I’ve given up attempting to be proven wrong lately.
Good old Oz. We all vote up these pissy agreements, then many just bitch and moan about the conditions for the coming years.
Team Virgin, balls in your court, how about you show everyone how it’s done. For a start, old base pay needs to be reinstated, that’s a given. Absolute non negotiable that one. I wouldn’t be accepting anything less than that plus 20%. But you will probably cave in at current base pay plus 3%. Happy to be proven wrong, although I’ve given up attempting to be proven wrong lately.
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For the most part its the pilots that agreed to thier current conditions.
Individual reasoning or justification doesn't change the fact that you (collectively speaking) voted in favor of it.
In that regard I don't actaully blame airline management.
Individual reasoning or justification doesn't change the fact that you (collectively speaking) voted in favor of it.
In that regard I don't actaully blame airline management.
The following 2 users liked this post by Lapon:
I’m surprised tail wheel “liked” your comment
The airline needs a proper seniority list, needs pilots in the base they want to be in and needs T and C's improve. Without that they will forever be a stepping stone airline. VA need to be aiming for QF pay, not JQ. It's the same fleet, same network, same operation. Why not the same pay and career progression?